NCAA Hockey Expansion Thread

[Barclay Donaldson]

Illinois pretty much was a done deal until COVID. They had a press conference scheduled to announce it in the spring of 2020.

Illinois came close to adding Divison I hockey team before coronavirus spread

“According to Whitman (Athletic Director), U of I was about a month away from forming the program before the pandemic changed things.”

They supposedly were close for more than 2 years before Covid hit. That article reeks of the incorrect defiance that Covid was the one thing that stood in their way and they were so close to doing it. They had no less than 2 dead set dates released by Buccigross in the two years before that. And just like the apocalyptic cults of old and new, those dates came and passed.

 

[JMCx4]

How DARE @Barclay Donaldson impugn the reputation of Nostradamus & his kind by comparing them to Bucci Mane!

 

[mk80]

Buccigross's "sources" often seem to be wrong. They also told him Illinois was a done deal, and we're all still waiting for that program to be announced...

Well in this case it does appear he was correct. The school just confirmed their plans today in a press release
Statement from Augustana University on Men's Ice Hockey - Augustana University Athletics

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Well in this case it does appear he was correct. The school just confirmed their plans today in a press release
Statement from Augustana University on Men's Ice Hockey - Augustana University Athletics

That's the vaguest possible confirmational statement they could have made.

 

[mk80]

That's the vaguest possible confirmational statement they could have made.

Likely they're not much further than receiving the donation from Mr. Sanford and now knowing they will plan to use it for hockey. I would think if they were well into the planning for the addition of a hockey program/ on campus arena, it might have been briefly mentioned in the athletics section of the Viking Bold: Journey to 2030 plan. Looking at that specifically it talks about transitioning the athletic department as a whole to NCAA DI Goal: Athletics

We know they have a donation for hockey which I'd say puts them ahead of High Point University in the College Hockey Expansion rankings.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

High Point and Kennesaw State are still in the "also receiving votes" list.

 

[JMCx4]

That's the vaguest possible confirmational statement they could have made.

I dunno, I found it to be quite ... "Viking Bold" ...

 

[mk80]

I feel like this CHN piece provides a a good summary of the latest College Hockey Expansion Candidates: Augustana Confirms Plans to Start D-I Hockey Program

Augustana would be the first D-I hockey program in South Dakota. The school said it would share more information about its plans later in the summer or early fall.
Lindenwood (suburban St. Louis) is making strides towards adding a men's program.
Other programs thought to be close to adding, like Illinois and Navy, have not been heard from since the COVID-19 pandemic started.
Tennessee State, in Nashville, recently said it was taking part in a feasibility study, as other schools have done as part of the joint program of the NHL and College Hockey Inc. If it happens, Tennessee State would be the first Historically Black College and University in the U.S. to add hockey.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

I feel like this CHN piece provides a a good summary of the latest College Hockey Expansion Candidates: Augustana Confirms Plans to Start D-I Hockey Program

Everything I've read about Augustana's move to Division I in all sports sounds like they're having a lot of trouble finding a conference because of their location in the middle of nowhere.

But they do apparently have a confirmed major donor to foot the bill for all of it, which is more than can be said of Lindenwood, the school expansionist clowns have been foaming at the mouth over for months now.

 

[psavitt]

Everything I've read about Augustana's move to Division I in all sports sounds like they're having a lot of trouble finding a conference because of their location in the middle of nowhere.

St. Thomas getting approval to move from D3 to D1 hurt Augustana as St. Thomas essentially took their spot in the Summit League. Adding St. Thomas puts the Summit League at 10 members. So unless the SL is fine with 11 members Augustana would either need someone to leave the league or the league to find one more school to get to 12. From a geographic standpoint the Summit makes perfect sense for Augustana. The four Dakota D1 schools are all in that league, the league office is based in Sioux Falls, and Sioux Falls is in the far western part of the state like USD and SDSU

 

[CrazyEddie20]

St. Thomas getting approval to move from D3 to D1 hurt Augustana as St. Thomas essentially took their spot in the Summit League. Adding St. Thomas puts the Summit League at 10 members. So unless the SL is fine with 11 members Augustana would either need someone to leave the league or the league to find one more school to get to 12. From a geographic standpoint the Summit makes perfect sense for Augustana. The four Dakota D1 schools are all in that league, the league office is based in Sioux Falls, and Sioux Falls is in the far western part of the state like USD and SDSU

All true, but the fact that it's not a done deal suggests that the Summit League doesn't want Augustana, and it's not like there are a ton of Division I conferences in the northern midwest they could join. They can't play up in hockey while playing in Division II for all their other programs, and no Division I conference seems to want them. When one of those barriers is broken down, maybe you'll see a hockey program at Augustana. Maybe.

 

[S E P H]

I like this thread, Augustana wants a DI team...why? It will never work because nobody is close to them!!!

Some random school in Tennessee...how dare you make fun of them trying to join.

Lol. I appreciate any school actually legit taking a risk to see hockey as a potential sport, I prefer others but it is long overdue for a SoDo school to get one.

E: This is definitely one win for Bucci's "sources" though, makes that Illinois story more believable even though I won't trust anything until it actually happens.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

I like this thread, Augustana wants a DI team...why? It will never work because nobody is close to them!!!

Some random school in Tennessee...how dare you make fun of them trying to join.

Lol. I appreciate any school actually legit taking a risk to see hockey as a potential sport, I prefer others but it is long overdue for a SoDo school to get one.

E: This is definitely one win for Bucci's "sources" though, makes that Illinois story more believable even though I won't trust anything until it actually happens.

Once again, you ignore the reality that geographic isolation has shuttered UAH and potentially both of the Alaska schools. Augustana is in a remote city on the plains and there's only one Division I conference for their other sports in that area - a conference that rejected their membership bid.

If you didn't know, and coming from Poland I wouldn't expect you to, racial politics simmers under the surface of higher education policy with regards to athletics in the US. Tennessee State is an HBCU. HBCU's (Historically Black Colleges/Universities) are generally underfunded and have small endowments and smaller donor bases. It would be groundbreaking for Tennessee State to add a hockey program, and it would be good for hockey in the US to have a college hockey program at an HBCU. Will it happen? I doubt it, but it would be good.

This isn't a "win for Bucci's sources" because they aren't actually adding a team until they find a Division I conference for ALL THEIR OTHER SPORTS, and then MAYBE they'll add hockey. Nor does it make anything about Illinois "more believable."

There's a lot that you don't understand about college hockey, and you don't seem to care to understand it. Why don't you take a seat on the end of the bench and let those of us who know what we're talking about take the next shift?

 

[mk80]

Everything I've read about Augustana's move to Division I in all sports sounds like they're having a lot of trouble finding a conference because of their location in the middle of nowhere.

But they do apparently have a confirmed major donor to foot the bill for all of it, which is more than can be said of Lindenwood, the school expansionist clowns have been foaming at the mouth over for months now.

Essentially the Summit League denied them for a few reasons, notably needing significant facility upgrades, and also they said they doubted Augustana's ability to fund DI programs, lack of endowment, etc. Also the Summit League is in a stable position where it doesn't need to expand, especially for a school like Augustana who is smaller than even St. Thomas. Augustana has in the ballpark of 1800 undergrads, but putting it this way a donor like Mr. Sanford can single handed get Augustana a D1 hockey program on his own if he wants to. Like I said I don't think hockey was on their radar anyway, until they just got this gift where Sanford likely told them to use it for hockey.

Realistically I'm doubtful Augustana's push for a full DI athletic department is worthwhile and in my opinion they'd be better off focusing on hockey and playing up like many other schools do, while being a good DII member in other sports.

In the case of Lindenwood, progress is admittedly slower than anticipated on the announcement, but the circus train is chugging forward behind closed doors.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

As an alum of a school the same size as Augustana, I can't imagine having a full Division I athletic program at a school with 1,800. It'd be absurd.

Schools cannot "play up" anymore - it's an all-or-nothing proposition for Division I. The Division I and II schools that currently "play up" are grandfathered. Jashvina Shah had a piece at CHN that explained this during the Frozen Four: Hockey, Where II is No. 1

You're right about college hockey expansionism being a circus train. When it comes to "what's behind door number three," be careful what you wish for. For years, Penn State's club clown "broadcaster" beat the "I have inside sources that tell me there are completed plans for a new arena" drum (while simultaneously proclaiming that ACHA teams would be competitive against half of NCAA Division I). Years later, Pegula finally cut the check and Penistone got his wish - only to get fired the next year when the athletic department realized that Division I hockey is actually a pretty big deal and professionalism matters.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Another note regarding Augustana: They could face significant Title IX problems. Fifty-nine percent of the student body is female, while of 420 unduplicated athletic opportunities, 249 (59 percent) are for men. Adding a men's hockey program only makes it harder for the school to pass the Title IX three-pronged test that courts would apply if the school is sued over this inequity.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Essentially the Summit League denied them for a few reasons, notably needing significant facility upgrades, and also they said they doubted Augustana's ability to fund DI programs, lack of endowment, etc. Also the Summit League is in a stable position where it doesn't need to expand, especially for a school like Augustana who is smaller than even St. Thomas. Augustana has in the ballpark of 1800 undergrads, but putting it this way a donor like Mr. Sanford can single handed get Augustana a D1 hockey program on his own if he wants to. Like I said I don't think hockey was on their radar anyway, until they just got this gift where Sanford likely told them to use it for hockey.

Realistically I'm doubtful Augustana's push for a full DI athletic department is worthwhile and in my opinion they'd be better off focusing on hockey and playing up like many other schools do, while being a good DII member in other sports.

In the case of Lindenwood, progress is admittedly slower than anticipated on the announcement, but the circus train is chugging forward behind closed doors.

Like Eddie said, D2 schools can't play up to D1 anymore. They established that grandfathered-in rule a while back.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Like Eddie said, D2 schools can't play up to D1 anymore. They established that grandfathered-in rule a while back.

To be fair, it's a rather obscure rule that only affects Division II schools, and it's not like pie-in-the-sky expansionists pay attention to facts and rules...

 

[JMCx4]

Another note regarding Augustana: They could face significant Title IX problems. Fifty-nine percent of the student body is female, while of 420 unduplicated athletic opportunities, 249 (59 percent) are for men. Adding a men's hockey program only makes it harder for the school to pass the Title IX three-pronged test that courts would apply if the school is sued over this inequity.

Bring on the Lady Vikings DI hockey team!

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Bring on the Lady Vikings DI hockey team!

As I've noted before, merely adding a women's hockey team does not solve the Title IX problem. See generally Intercollegiate Athletics Policy: Three-Part Test -- Part Three Q's & A's

Let's go through the three prongs of the test: Augustana is not anywhere close to meeting proportionality of opportunities. They do not have any recent history and continuing practice of expanding participation opportunities responsive to the developing interests and abilities of female student-athletes through athletic programs. And they'd have to prove that Augustana is fully and effectively accommodating the interests and abilities of the underrepresented sex - which is hard to believe they're doing when failing the proportionality prong so badly, and proof requires legitimate documentation of efforts.

 

[mk80]

Like Eddie said, D2 schools can't play up to D1 anymore. They established that grandfathered-in rule a while back.

To be fair, it's a rather obscure rule that only affects Division II schools, and it's not like pie-in-the-sky expansionists pay attention to facts and rules...

Jashvina Shah's research for that CHN piece is a bit incomplete.

When it comes to ice hockey there is no NCAA DII National Championship sponsored since 1980. Currently there are 7 DII hockey schools in the Northeast in a single conference but no national championship. A DII school absolutely can not play down a level in DIII, but because no national championship is offered they are able to still compete in DI, the very reason why Augustana, Lindenwood, or any other DII school could pursue the addition of a men's hockey program. They don't have to elevate their entire athletic department, although Augustana has their own intentions to do so.

"20.8.2 Division II Options When No Division II Championship is Conducted. An active member institution that holds membership in Division II is eligible to compete in the Division I championship in those sports for which no championship is conducted in Division II. The Division II institution shall declare its intention to compete by June 1. This declaration of intent shall be effective for a minimum of three years.

20.8.2.1 Participation in Division I Championship. To be eligible for the Division I championship in such a sport, the Division II member institution is required to meet all Division I institutional and eligibility requirements and may use Division I financial aid limitations in that sport as permitted under Bylaw 20.9.1.1."

Now if for example Augustana announced their intent to add men's soccer, they would not be allowed to play up in DI.

Edit: Removed irrelevant rule

 

[JMCx4]

... When it comes to ice hockey there is no NCAA DII National Championship sponsored since 1980. Currently there are 7 DII hockey schools in the Northeast in a single conference but no national championship. A DII school absolutely can not play down a level in DIII, but because no national championship is offered they are able to still compete in DI, the very reason why Augustana, Lindenwood, or any other DII school could pursue the addition of a men's hockey program. They don't have to elevate their entire athletic department, although Augustana has their own intentions to do so.

20.4.1 Multidivision Classification. A member of Division II or Division III may have a sport classified in Division I, provided the sport was so classified during the 2010-11 academic year. Such a classification shall continue until the institution fails to conduct the sport in Division I in any subsequent academic year. ..."

I'm struggling with the source context here: How does the bold part above figure into the point of your post AND into the current standing of "Augustana, Lindenwood, or any other DII school" pursuing a DI hockey program?

 

[mk80]

I'm struggling with the source context here: How does the bold part above figure into the point of your post AND into the current standing of "Augustana, Lindenwood, or any other DII school" pursuing a DI hockey program?

That's more of a lack of organization to my thoughts. But I included that entire 20.4.1 clause because it is my understanding that's what the current "grandfathered in" schools fall under, so I included it in my post.

Specifically the other two clauses are related to how "LU, Augustana, or any other D2 schools" can go about adding a program.

 

[JMCx4]

 

[CrazyEddie20]

A full minute of him saying things while saying nothing new at all.