NCAA / CHL Lawsuit

[dm8895]

If the NCAA is successful in luring the McKenna’s and Martone’s of the world…all of the predictions and speculation we’ve discussed so far go right out the window IMO. I’m not sure if anyone in this thread had suggested that was even a possibility. It would hurt the CHL obviously, but might be good for U SPORTS as NCAA teams would be focused on luring guys who were never coming here anyways (which the bigger programs might be doing anyways).

Yeah I know some Q fans who are all pumped up that some BCHL guys have bailed for the CHL and are acting like this is a huge win for them but that remains to be seen.
I’m really curious to see what the big programs do if anything in terms of CHL overage guys , it’s hard to tell on tv and I could be way off but I can only think of a handful of UNB guys who could have dressed for Michigan the last handful of years let alone made any impact .

 

[AUS Fan]

If the NCAA is successful in luring the McKenna’s and Martone’s of the world…all of the predictions and speculation we’ve discussed so far go right out the window IMO. I’m not sure if anyone in this thread had suggested that was even a possibility. It would hurt the CHL obviously, but might be good for U SPORTS as NCAA teams would be focused on luring guys who were never coming here anyways (which the bigger programs might be doing anyways).

I'm not sure how much this will hurt the CHL. Previous to this, some top end guys were playing Junior A. For example, Celebrini played 1 year Jr A, 1 year NCAA. Fantilli was 2 years Jr A and 1 year NCAA. If these guys go to the CHL and do the same, it will attract fans. After they leave for NCAA another one will come along.

Of the guys who have committed to NCAA, I don't know how many would have been "recruited" because the ruling is new. I don't know, but I think that when the rule changed, some guys decided to go NCAA as opposed to CIS.

 

[AUS Fan]

Yeah I know some Q fans who are all pumped up that some BCHL guys have bailed for the CHL and are acting like this is a huge win for them but that remains to be seen.
I’m really curious to see what the big programs do if anything in terms of CHL overage guys , it’s hard to tell on tv and I could be way off but I can only think of a handful of UNB guys who could have dressed for Michigan the last handful of years let alone made any impact .

A quick look at the CHL guys who have committed, most are going to decent schools for a degree (Clarkson, Princeton, RIT, UNH and others). None of these schools are ever mentioned as possible National Champions. Not saying it won't happen, but unlikely.

 

[AUS Fan]

I was talking with someone tonight saying how I figured that in the future CIS teams will have to try and load up at Xmas on guys from the Coast but the more I think of it I don’t even know how many of those guys will be around … if you are a player and your options are “ECHL or CIS” , I can see some of the appeal of the coast , get paid even if it’s not a ton of money, play in pro rinks with pro facilities but if the choice is “ECHL or NCAA” the NCAA all of a sudden becomes a much “sexier” .
It’s insane how many levels this has to it . Really will affect hockey all the way from Midget C right to the NHL .

I've been to the rink in Wheeling. It's not a "pro" rink.

 

[dm8895]

A quick look at the CHL guys who have committed, most are going to decent schools for a degree (Clarkson, Princeton, RIT, UNH and others). None of these schools are ever mentioned as possible National Champions. Not saying it won't happen, but unlikely.

I’m not specifically referencing these guys , I guess I say that assuming that the knife cuts pretty deep … The deeper it cuts education becomes your main selling point and the value of a Canadian degree while working in Canada.

 

[dm8895]

I've been to the rink in Wheeling. It's not a "pro" rink.

You also have a team like Orlando who’s setup is amazing .

 

[AUS Fan]

A couple of "rumors" to add:

Hearing that some 1st year AUS guys may be in NCAA next year. Very much a rumor at this stage but was told that NCAA is scouting and some players have asked their agents to look at NCAA schools.

A more firm rumor is that CIS will allow 1 year Pro players without having to sit out a year. Possibly 2 year guys but pretty firm on 1 year. Supposed to be passed in the New Year. Will wait and see.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

A couple of "rumors" to add:

Hearing that some 1st year AUS guys may be in NCAA next year. Very much a rumor at this stage but was told that NCAA is scouting and some players have asked their agents to look at NCAA schools.

A more firm rumor is that CIS will allow 1 year Pro players without having to sit out a year. Possibly 2 year guys but pretty firm on 1 year. Supposed to be passed in the New Year. Will wait and see.

That is a sensible response from USports.

 

[dm8895]

A couple of "rumors" to add:

Hearing that some 1st year AUS guys may be in NCAA next year. Very much a rumor at this stage but was told that NCAA is scouting and some players have asked their agents to look at NCAA schools.

A more firm rumor is that CIS will allow 1 year Pro players without having to sit out a year. Possibly 2 year guys but pretty firm on 1 year. Supposed to be passed in the New Year. Will wait and see.

Really like this , I personally wish they’d just open the floodgates and if Joe Pavelski decided he wanted to play in the AUS next year , be my guest… I obviously get that’s not happening, but the larger you can make your player pool who are ineligible to play NCAA the better .

 

[AUS Fan]

Really like this , I personally wish they’d just open the floodgates and if Joe Pavelski decided he wanted to play in the AUS next year , be my guest… I obviously get that’s not happening, but the larger you can make your player pool who are ineligible to play NCAA the better .

You're just saying that because Little Joe would go to UNB.

But, on a serious note, I think a step by step approach is good. Much like the NCAA rule change was a reaction to lawsuits, I think this is a reaction to CHL guys committing to NCAA, to allow CIS to be competitive as it was before the rule change. Prior to Nov 7 the CIS had a monopoly on CHL players and everything was peachy. Lots of short term chaos but things will settle in a year or two.

I'm really curious to see if any current CIS players go to NCAA.

Until it happens it's just a rumor.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

I definitely see this being a HUGE benefit to a school like Dal. The “Student-Athlete” is going to see the advantages of getting an elite level education and the “Athlete-Student” will see the appeal of getting to play in the NCAA at a less prestigious school where it’s undeniable you will be seen by 500x the scouts in an average year , even if they are in the rink to watch Celebrini play against your team, you are on the same ice and they are seeing you, if you see even a 0.5% shot of playing in the NHL , it’s hard not to go to the states and generally you don’t get this far without having a ton of belief in yourself.

UNB gets scouted. If you play well against UNB you will get noticed. There aren't as many scouts as you would see for NCAA games, but there are some. The University Cup is fairly heavily scouted. Playing against the Team Canada prospects gets you scouted. If you are a really good player in USports there are opportunites for NHL scouts to see you. Talking to NHL scouts over the years, they are looking at USports mostly for larger bodies who have potential to play third and fourth lines in the NHL, or higher for the AHL. Large d-men with skills get a serious look, as do goalies.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

I'm really curious to see if any current CIS players go to NCAA.

Until it happens it's just a rumor.

This I agree with.

I am sure it will be more than zero, but not much more because the NCAA program would be bringing in a player with only 3 years of eligibility, and the USports player would have to think that the NCAA program offers him a better opportunity. At a top program, the USports player would be deep in the lineup, and at a lower program the quality is no better than USports.

 

[AUS Fan]

This I agree with.

I am sure it will be more than zero, but not much more because the NCAA program would be bringing in a player with only 3 years of eligibility, and the USports player would have to think that the NCAA program offers him a better opportunity. At a top program, the USports player would be deep in the lineup, and at a lower program the quality is no better than USports.

Yes, but the grass is always greener. Most NCAA schools have better facilities. I think they have 3 semesters so the course load isn't as much and you spend more time at the rink/gym. You get to play in front of bigger crowds then you do now in CIS. You need to look at the 53rd ranked team to see attendance below 1000. The last place team has a larger attendance than DAL and probably most OUA schools.

 

[dm8895]

UNB gets scouted. If you play well against UNB you will get noticed. There aren't as many scouts as you would see for NCAA games, but there are some. The University Cup is fairly heavily scouted. Playing against the Team Canada prospects gets you scouted. If you are a really good player in USports there are opportunites for NHL scouts to see you. Talking to NHL scouts over the years, they are looking at USports mostly for larger bodies who have potential to play third and fourth lines in the NHL, or higher for the AHL. Large d-men with skills get a serious look, as do goalies.

Yeah sure we see scouts , I’ve encountered them over the years as well but it’s not even close to the level American college hockey is scouted . I love CIS hockey as much as the next guy but let’s not kid ourselves in 30 years we’ve seen what 5 guys who played a single game in the NHL out of the AUS? (PJ Stock , Joel Ward , Darryl Boyce , Kevin Henderson , Phil Maillet, maybe I’m missing someone) Your odds of playing in the NHL out of the CIS aren’t zero but they are damn close to it and only 2 of these guys played 200+ games, your odds of being discovered as a late bloomer are astronomically higher in the states.

 

[AUS Fan]

Yeah sure we see scouts , I’ve encountered them over the years as well but it’s not even close to the level American college hockey is scouted . I love CIS hockey as much as the next guy but let’s not kid ourselves in 30 years we’ve seen what 5 guys who played a single game in the NHL out of the AUS? (PJ Stock , Joel Ward , Darryl Boyce , Kevin Henderson , Phil Maillet, maybe I’m missing someone) Your odds of playing in the NHL out of the CIS aren’t zero but they are damn close to it and only 2 of these guys played 200+ games, your odds of being discovered as a late bloomer are astronomically higher in the states.

As I stated, these are NCAA scouts who are not looking for NHL players because there are none in CIS. There are a few guys at UNB worth looking at, MacDonald at ACA, probably someone at SFX that could play on an NCAA team.

 

[dm8895]

https://westerngazette.ca/features/what-an-american-ruling-means-for-canadian-hockey/article_d280c72a-bf19-11ef-acef-933e04975c91.html

Not really any new info but figured I’d post since we haven’t heard much from most CIS coaches.

 

[dm8895]

Listened to this a while ago but never posted . CIS talk towards the end but entire thing is a good listen.

 

[AdamMcg83]

https://westerngazette.ca/features/what-an-american-ruling-means-for-canadian-hockey/article_d280c72a-bf19-11ef-acef-933e04975c91.html

Not really any new info but figured I’d post since we haven’t heard much from most CIS coaches.

Another article with a couple different perspectives from a pair of USports coaches:

Canadian university hockey teams feeling the pinch of NCAA hockey ruling

Coaches across Ontario University Athletics — and other U Sports leagues — are scrambling to navigate a radically shifting hockey scene ever since U.S. colleges decided to welcome Canada’s top junior players.

www.therecord.com

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

Yes, but the grass is always greener. Most NCAA schools have better facilities. I think they have 3 semesters so the course load isn't as much and you spend more time at the rink/gym. You get to play in front of bigger crowds then you do now in CIS. You need to look at the 53rd ranked team to see attendance below 1000. The last place team has a larger attendance than DAL and probably most OUA schools.

The course load is the same in Canada and the US, so I don't see that as a factor at all. Most Canadian universities also have 3 or 4 semesters, and the Spring semester (May-June) is perfect for a serious student to make up credits quickly. NCAA programs are better at organizing their athletes' academic schedules, but that can easily happen in Canada if the program is organized.

What might be different is the academic treatment of student-athletes. In Canadian universities - especially the large ones - an athlete is just another student among the crowd. In US universities - especially the top programs (e.g., Michigan) and the smaller private universities (e.g., Boston College) - athletes are typically put in smaller classes and their athletic commitments are more appreciated by professors. It's part of the culture.

 

[AUS Fan]

I just saw on Xwitter:
"The NCAA is considering allowing five years of eligibility for players in all sports moving forward, per an NCAA official. The topic will continue to be discussed in early 2025."

 

[AUS Fan]

From Rick Westhead, TSN -

The USHL's Youngstown Phantoms and Muskegon Lumberjacks, who last month were denied permission to leave that league and join the OHL, have hired prominent antitrust lawyer Jeffrey Kessler, a source familiar with the matter told TSN. Kessler is advising the two USHL teams on their options in what may turn into an antitrust lawsuit between the teams and USA Hockey, which controls the USHL, the source said. Kessler has represented players for decades in fights with leagues and his past clients include the NFL Players Association, Tom Brady and Megan Rapinoe. The 16-team USHL and USA Hockey have been alarmed over the number of players leaving the USHL for CHL teams, ever since the NCAA said that CHL players moving forward will retain their eligible to play U.S. college hockey. The USHL recently began charging CHL teams a $50K transfer fee to acquire a player who want to leave the USHL, the source said. The source also said USA Hockey officials do not want the Phantoms and Lumberjacks to leave the USHL because of the impact it would have on the U.S. National Team Development Program, which plays in the USHL and is based in Plymouth, Mich.