2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[mr figgles]

When do you think his prime starts?
Probably not until 2026 or 2027 or later, he's 20 right now, shouldn't hit his prime until 22-24.
And they'll give him an 8 year extension a couple years into his RFA term.

In 2027, the only players over 30 will be Couts (35), Sanheim (31), TK (30).
Tippett, Frost, Cates, Ersson (28), Farabee, Zamula (27), Brink, Foerster, York (26), Drysdale, Andrae, Grans, McDonald (25), Bonk, Barkey, Bjarnason, Zavragin (22), Jett, Berglund, Gill (21), 2025 draft (20)

Risto, Laughton, Seeler, Hathaway, DeLo, Johnson will be long gone by then

What’s the rush? Look at that slop you just posted. That’s the rush. They need better talent that will be ready when he hits his prime.

 

[deadhead]

"No brainers" would have been holding on to them and pumping up their value with inflated usage and trading them at the deadline (TDA) or with retaining less/receiving more (Hayes) because the team is rebuilding and was not in a rush to make either of those moves?

And Hathway? What's the excuse for sprinting to resign him within 12 hours of being able to do so (despite the fact he's under contract for another year)?

Well for starters Laughton gets older and worse and less cost controlled every year, and putting off the assets you get for him another year every year just means we have to wait for the assets to turn into anything. Same with Risto.

Name me one player Briere traded away that wasn't an expiring contract or a malcontent he wanted off the team. And if you can't then stop taking issue with the phrase "Briere hasn't traded a single player he wasn't forced to", because it's true.

Laughton and Risto have as much or more value now and in June than they did last June.

Hathaway, you talkin' Hathaway. Did anyone offer anything for a 4RW. At 32 his trade value was at best a 4th, probably a 5th. Look at comparables:
Okposo (35) for 5th rd pick
Beauvillier (26) for 5th rd pick
MacEwen (27) for Lemieux & 5th rd pick
P Brown (31) for 6th rd pick
R Reaves (36) for 5th rd pick

You gonna pump up TDA and Hayes? With what? Pot smoke?

 

[Sombastate]

What’s the rush? Look at that slop you just posted. That’s the rush. They need better talent that will be ready when he hits his prime.

It really is quite remarkable how garbage our pool is for a team that has competed a total of 1 year since Obama was in his first term

 

[FlyerNutter]

Don’t tank.

Don’t make any moves for players who have been available for star level potential.

I will never let the Askarov one go, amongst others - it’s hilarious he didn’t squeal to trade for him when he was available.

Comfortably waddle up to pick 13th, and wait for that chance of being a perpetual wildcard team.

Briere is not only a coward, but a lazy imbecile.

 

[freakydallas13]

Laughton and Risto have as much or more value now and in June than they did last June.

Hathaway, you talkin' Hathaway. Did anyone offer anything for a 4RW. At 32 his trade value was at best a 4th, probably a 5th. Look at comparables:
Okposo (35) for 5th rd pick
Beauvillier (26) for 5th rd pick
MacEwen (27) for Lemieux & 5th rd pick
P Brown (31) for 6th rd pick
R Reaves (36) for 5th rd pick

You gonna pump up TDA and Hayes? With what? Pot smoke?

So to summarize:

• I asked you to name a single player Briere traded he wasn't forced to trade, and you have no response.
• I asked you why Hathway had to be resigned within 12 hours of being eligible for an extension, and you ignored my question and said he's a scrub worth a 4th, which isn't an answer.
• You think Laughton is going to fetch more than the 1st Briere turned down already.

Great talk. Don't reply unless you actually intend on giving me answers to the questions I asked next time.

 

[Bigkarl]

It's the Fletcher hangover.

The problem is they haven't been that bad, just bad enough to pick in the teens on a regular basis.
Only two picks in the top ten since Provorov, [Patrick (#13)], the problem was the "patch and pray" strategy.

That's why I laugh at those who say nothing has changed, if Holmgren/Clarke were really running the show, Briere would have traded for a veteran center and goalie last summer and certainly this season.

People complain about Briere being patient, that's exactly why I like him - too often the FO has made hasty moves to make the playoffs at the cost of the future.

Oh man, I wonder if anyone on the board has been telling you over and over that the problem with Torts and the Flyer's philosophy is that it keeps them picking at 12 for perpetuity, and your response has always been that they can't tank for high picks because they'll just end up like Buffalo.

And you spent the entire Fletcher tenure blaming his failures on Hextall and defending every move Fletcher made. I'm sure when Danny is shitcanned and Lappy or Torts is the GM, it will be all Danny's fault

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Oh man, I wonder if anyone on the board has been telling you over and over that the problem with Torts and the Flyer's philosophy is that it keeps them picking at 12 for perpetuity, and your response has always been that they can't tank for high picks because they'll just end up like Buffalo.

And you spent the entire Fletcher tenure blaming his failures on Hextall and defending every move Fletcher made. I'm sure when Danny is shitcanned and Lappy or Torts is the GM, it will be all Danny's fault

Big Karl gets it

 

[Strawberry Fields]

So is Kolosov actually gonna report?

 

[deadhead]

Because they're not tanking. You can whine about it until you're blue in the face, and it's not changing.
That ship sailed in the summer of 2019.

They've got a lot of solid young players, they don't have a lot of star power, but neither does anyone else outside of Edmonton, NJ and Toronto. Toronto hasn't got out of the second round and NJ has made the playoffs once with a 2nd rd exit so far. Otherwise we're talking teams with a couple top picks and otherwise players they developed or obtained in trades. Which is what the Flyer are going to have to do.

Since they put the Brink line together they're 2nd in scoring at ES. 27 games now, pretty large sample.
So I guess offense isn't quite the problem as advertised. Despite no "star." Michkov still 2 years away.
(Unless you count TK, but he was a #24 pick, so obviously isn't for real.)
If the Frost and Couts lines start to jell, they should be able to sustain this pace.
When Ersson plays well, they win. 5-0-1 their last six games with solid goaltending.
Still need to fix STs.

 

[Beef Invictus]

When do you think his prime starts?
Probably not until 2026 or 2027 or later, he's 20 right now, shouldn't hit his prime until 22-24.
And they'll give him an 8 year extension a couple years into his RFA term.

In 2027, the only players over 30 will be Couts (35), Sanheim (31), TK (30).
Tippett, Frost, Cates, Ersson (28), Farabee, Zamula (27), Brink, Foerster, York (26), Drysdale, Andrae, Grans, McDonald (25), Bonk, Barkey, Bjarnason, Zavragin (22), Jett, Berglund, Gill (21), 2025 draft (20)

Risto, Laughton, Seeler, Hathaway, DeLo, Johnson will be long gone by then

Are you under the impression that this disproves the reality that they've done NOTHING to build for his prime? They are wasting it before it's even begun.

Thank you for helping nail home that point for me.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Because they're not tanking. You can whine about it until you're blue in the face, and it's not changing.
That ship sailed in the summer of 2019.

They've got a lot of solid young players, they don't have a lot of star power, but neither does anyone else outside of Edmonton, NJ and Toronto. Toronto hasn't got out of the second round and NJ has made the playoffs once with a 2nd rd exit so far. Otherwise we're talking teams with a couple top picks and otherwise players they developed or obtained in trades. Which is what the Flyer are going to have to do.

Since they put the Brink line together they're 2nd in scoring at ES. 27 games now, pretty large sample.
So I guess offense isn't quite the problem as advertised. Despite no "star." Michkov still 2 years away.
(Unless you count TK, but he was a #24 pick, so obviously isn't for real.)
If the Frost and Couts lines start to jell, they should be able to sustain this pace.
When Ersson plays well, they win. 5-0-1 their last six games with solid goaltending.
Still need to fix STs.

We know they're not tanking. We've told you this repeatedly. They're also not rebuilding. We've told you this repeatedly. You know they aren't, because you're actively defending the fact they are doing neither thing. You know they aren't doing anything to improve in either the short or long term, and you're presenting that as a good thing. Because otherwise they might become worse than a team which has been better than them for the last five years, or something.

You know a one line team goes nowhere, so you know that hanging your hat on that as anything but a path towards the traditional annual failure is pointless. Nobody knows why you would be crowing about having ONE line.

You're going in a strange and pointless circle, defending a team stuck in a boring and pointless circle, doing the same thing they've been doing for 11 years.

 

[Bigkarl]

Because they're not tanking. You can whine about it until you're blue in the face, and it's not changing.
That ship sailed in the summer of 2019.

They've got a lot of solid young players, they don't have a lot of star power, but neither does anyone else outside of Edmonton, NJ and Toronto. Toronto hasn't got out of the second round and NJ has made the playoffs once with a 2nd rd exit so far. Otherwise we're talking teams with a couple top picks and otherwise players they developed or obtained in trades. Which is what the Flyer are going to have to do.

Since they put the Brink line together they're 2nd in scoring at ES. 27 games now, pretty large sample.
So I guess offense isn't quite the problem as advertised. Despite no "star." Michkov still 2 years away.
(Unless you count TK, but he was a #24 pick, so obviously isn't for real.)
If the Frost and Couts lines start to jell, they should be able to sustain this pace.
When Ersson plays well, they win. 5-0-1 their last six games with solid goaltending.
Still need to fix STs.

So why did you just say that their problem is that they pick in the teens every year? Isn't that where solid, but not star caliber players typically get drafted?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

So is Kolosov actually gonna report?

did he get sent down ?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

How can someone be so gungho that the reason the Flyers suck is because Hextall was half in and half out of a “rebuild” while at the same time defend what is currently going on?

It’s the same god damn thing.

 

[mize370]

Connor McCates will lead us to the promised land.
Culture Laughton will lead us to the promised land.
Shotblocker Seeler will lead us to the promised land.
Out after a goal Hathaway will lead us to the promised land.
Miss the net Tippett will lead us to the promised land.
Last in the league PP Thompson will lead us to the promised land.
Developer Lapperriere will lead us to the promised land.
Most improved Ristolainen will lead us to the promised land.
5 more 14th overall draft picks will lead us to the promised land.
I lost the trade Drysdale will lead us to the promised land.
NHL only Kolosov will lead us to the promised land.
Accountability My Ass Torterella will lead us to the promised land.

Turns out the promised land is mediocrity. New age of orange has the same color tinge as before.
Run it back baby!!!! Gotta change sometime lol Culture!! Culture !! Culture !!

 

[BiggE]

did he get sent down ?

According to Ek at Buzz, yes.

 

[MJL66]

They've got a lot of solid young players, they don't have a lot of star power, but neither does anyone else outside of Edmonton, NJ and Toronto.

Seriously? LMAO

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's hard to think of anything more damning of the state of the team than the reality that them finally putting together one effective line is considered such a monumental, season defining feat. A routine accomplishment for other teams.

 

[Magua]

It really is quite remarkable how garbage our pool is for a team that has competed a total of 1 year since Obama was in his first term

The central argument in the Flyers building a contender is you don’t need top 3-5 picks to find stars. Everyone agrees that it can be done; it’s just exponentially harder. Forget once a generation finding Mark Stone in the 6th round. High value top ~50 picks. With the exception of Michkov falling into their laps, the Flyers have directly passed on a star (or star potential) player nearly every class, no hindsight needed — we had these guys top of the board. Which one of these groups, if added/swapped in the current roster, could yield a low end contender, with a key trade or two?

1) Robertson - (5th OV value) - Boldy
Perreault - Stankoven - Stiga

L. Hutson - Buium

2) Ratcliffe - Luchanko - Tuomaala
Berglund

York - Drysdale
Bonk - Gill

There is no reason to believe the Flyers can build a contender with how they draft because they draft as if they’re refuting their own thesis. That’s why certain disingenuous people have shifted gears to saying they’re basically a contender already, minus a goalie and more 3rd line/pair depth.

 

[deadhead]

This is Hextall's 2016-17 team after two drafts:

G (29), Voracek (27), Simmonds (28), Couts (24), Schenn (25), Filppula (32), TK (19), Read (30), Raffl (28) PEB (31), Weise (28), Cousins (23), VdV (29)
Provorov (20), AMac (30), Ghost (23), MDZ (26), Gudas (26), Manning (26)
Mason (28), Neuvirth (28)

top prospects: Laughton (22), Myers (20), Rubtsov (18), Sanheim (20), Morin (21), Hagg (21), Weal (22), Stolarz (23), Hart (18), Lindblom (20), Lyon (24)

That team ended up with 88 points, GF/GA goalie adjusted: 212/208.
They weren't good enough to compete, and only 6 starters 25 and under.

So Hextall trades Schenn for two 1st rd picks, trades Cousins for a 5th, lets MDZ walk, replaces Mason with Elliott.
Patrick, Weal, Laughton, Hagg, start the next season.
Team ended up with 98 points, GF/GA goalie adjusted: 249/225.

So he signs JVR.
Next season, 82 points, GF/GA goalie adjusted: 241/254.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Thanks?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Personally, I’m not quite convinced. But I think a lineup with every affiliated prospect that has yet to be eaten by a hippopotamus penciled into a 2028 roster might push me over the edge.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

The central argument in the Flyers building a contender is you don’t need top 3-5 picks to find stars. Everyone agrees that it can be done; it’s just exponentially harder. Forget once a generation finding Mark Stone in the 6th round. High value top ~50 picks. With the exception of Michkov falling into their laps, the Flyers have directly passed on a star (or star potential) player nearly every class, no hindsight needed — we had these guys top of the board. Which one of these groups, if added/swapped in the current roster, could yield a low end contender, with a key trade or two?

1) Robertson - (5th OV value) - Boldy
Perreault - Stankoven - Stiga

L. Hutson - Buium

2) Ratcliffe - Luchanko - Tuomaala
Berglund

York - Drysdale
Bonk - Gill

There is no reason to believe the Flyers can build a contender with how they draft because they draft as if they’re refuting their own thesis. That’s why certain disingenuous people have shifted gears to saying they’re basically a contender already, minus a goalie and more 3rd line/pair depth.

This is:
-beyond the top 50 scope you set (but not by TOO much)
-several regimes ago
-several years older than your earliest example

But they also took Goulbourne right before Bjorkstrand in 2013

 

[freakydallas13]

You can whine about it until you're blue in the face

 

[DancingPanther]

The central argument in the Flyers building a contender is you don’t need top 3-5 picks to find stars. Everyone agrees that it can be done; it’s just exponentially harder. Forget once a generation finding Mark Stone in the 6th round. High value top ~50 picks. With the exception of Michkov falling into their laps, the Flyers have directly passed on a star (or star potential) player nearly every class, no hindsight needed — we had these guys top of the board. Which one of these groups, if added/swapped in the current roster, could yield a low end contender, with a key trade or two?

1) Robertson - (5th OV value) - Boldy
Perreault - Stankoven - Stiga

L. Hutson - Buium

2) Ratcliffe - Luchanko - Tuomaala
Berglund

York - Drysdale
Bonk - Gill

There is no reason to believe the Flyers can build a contender with how they draft because they draft as if they’re refuting their own thesis. That’s why certain disingenuous people have shifted gears to saying they’re basically a contender already, minus a goalie and more 3rd line/pair depth.

Are you seeing how much better the 200 ft game is in group 2 though?