NCAA / CHL Lawsuit

[dm8895]

https://thehockeynews.com/news/ncaa-blocking-chl-players-is-an-illegal-conspiracy-new-antitrust-lawsuit-alleges

Click to read more...

 

[JMCx4]

Forget hockey, kids, lawyerin's where your fortunes is.

 

[Drummer]

I'm not sure, even with the proposed idea of 'moving' between the leagues and/or if this case is won by the plaintiff, if it really impacts USPORTS clubs.

USPORTS doesn't get the top CHL/NCAA talent, so if they start in the CHL and then move to an NCAA team (or vice versa) it has limited impact on the USPORTS league. Yes - there are ripples, different players moving up/down on the roster, but in most cases I believe the overage players remain as USPORTS' main demographic.

For each year a CHL player remains in the league, they get more tuition funds and an NCAA team is less likely to want them (their window to play and impact the team's success becomes smaller). So, I see this impacting the 16, 17 and 18 year-olds more.

The educational impacts are interesting, ...
... if you start in the CHL and go to NCAA, you have 1-3 years of CHL tuition funds available to offset any tuition imbalance between scholarships and tuition.
... if you start in the NCAA and go to CHL, you bring 1-3 years of a degree with you and possibly the program offers an AFA to cover the last 1-2 years.

Yes - a player can join an NCAA team at 21 and start their 5-year clock provided they have the academics to be accepted. They will have some classes completed as that's a requirement of the CHL program, but most NCAA programs generally don't look for these older players.

That's the question - would NCAA programs start to look for an older group of players to be 'leaders' or continue with their current scouting model? If a number of them choose to go 'older' that would impact USPORTS.

E.

 

[AUS Fan]

There are no 16 yr olds playing D1 hockey and very few 17's. Those kids are in the USHL.

If a player is good enough to play D1 and has the smarts, why would he go CHL?

A big factor IMHO will be academics. D1 hockey is NOT D1 Football or B-Ball.

I don't see this having much impact on CIS hockey.

 

[JMCx4]

The first hole chipped in the wall?

ESPN.com: WHL's Braxton Whitehead commits to Arizona State, challenging NCAA rules

 

[JMCx4]

P.S. - Far more academic/esoteric discussion of this topic is ongoing HERE in the Fugu's Business of Hockey forum.

 

[AUS Fan]

The first hole chipped in the wall?

ESPN.com: WHL's Braxton Whitehead commits to Arizona State, challenging NCAA rules

I was just going to post this. Should be interesting.

 

[Drummer]

Yeah, but it's Arizona and the player is American (likely wanting to return home & play). His academic package allows him to go to any institution that accepts him, but in this case he also get's to play (if the ruling is favourable/supportive).

The lawsuit has only been filed - no idea whether a ruling will be in either group's favour (likely of the athletes) in time for him to play next season.

How much space are they going to reserve for a 21 year-old (which will likely displace an 18 year-old). Note: (from what I could find on the internet) - "Ice hockey players have until their 21st birthday to enroll in a D1 school".

Not sure if the High School curriculum requirements apply to a University/College transfer (provided he has been taking is courses as outlined by the CHL for their package), otherwise he needs a High School GPA of 2.3 and completion of 16 'Core Courses'.

It will be interesting - this certainly can impacts all USPORTS teams, just hard to gauge

 

[dm8895]

Well looks like it’s happening and happening soon. As a fan of hockey I see it as a good thing and think it’s bullshit CHL players were deemed as earning a salary because they got some meal money etc… however as a CIS fan I’m scared shitless … the effects could be extremely minor and maybe skim the top players off and create more parity or this could be the end of the world as we know it … who knows but I’d be lying if I said it didn’t scare me.

 

[AUS Fan]

Source: Vote upcoming that could clear way for major junior players in NCAA hockey - College Hockey | USCHO.com

The NCAA is prepared to vote on a proposal that will allow Canadian major junior players to be immediately eligible to play college hockey.

www.uscho.com

 

[JMCx4]

Well looks like it’s happening and happening soon. As a fan of hockey I see it as a good thing and think it’s bullshit CHL players were deemed as earning a salary because they got some meal money etc… however as a CIS fan I’m scared shitless … the effects could be extremely minor and maybe skim the top players off and create more parity or this could be the end of the world as we know it … who knows but I’d be lying if I said it didn’t scare me.

Imagine how us NCAA hockey fans must feel ... dreading the flood of "oot" and "aboot" and "eh?" language coming to a hockey game near us. Not to mention all the "parlezz voos" and "jay nay comprends pass" nonsense.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

1) This will have a much bigger impact on Junior Hockey than USports. The CHL will become even stronger, but will lose its leverage over 16 year olds, who will be able to take their time before committing to the CHL.
2) Jr A leagues will be weakened, and will have to become much more developmentally focused. A smart Jr A league would set a lower age cap, but they are not known for being smart.
3) This will not really move the needle for the top NCAA programs, as the top CHLers will still be better off going to the AHL than treating the NCAA as a developmental league for a year or two. It WILL help the second-tier programs attract ex-CHL players with middling academic aspirations.
4) USports schools will have to start competing on $$.
5) Outside of the top AUS, CW, and OUA East schools, most USports teams are already littered with Jr A players, so I don't see this moving the needle that much for anyone outside of the UNB / Alberta perpetual Top 10 tier.
6) This will help the strong academic USports schools and hurt the weak academic USports schools. An intelligent 21 year old won't chase the dream to Lindenwood over Alberta or UBC, but a less gifted 21 year old might choose Lindenwood over Ontario Tech or TMU.

 

[JMCx4]

... 6) This will help the strong academic USports schools and hurt the weak academic USports schools. An intelligent 21 year old won't chase the dream to Lindenwood over Alberta or UBC, but a less gifted 21 year old might choose Lindenwood over Ontario Tech or TMU.

Don't overlook the fact that the NCAA programs will be determining which Canadian junior players have the talent & the "good fit" to take spots on their rosters. The shuffle of players next summer could make for a dynamic with unintended or at least unexpected consequences for players on both sides of the border.

 

[AUS Fan]

Don't overlook the fact that the NCAA programs will be determining which Canadian junior players have the talent & the "good fit" to take spots on their rosters. The shuffle of players next summer could make for a dynamic with unintended or at least unexpected consequences for players on both sides of the border.

The issue is up for a vote and no one knows when/if it will be implemented, assuming a Yes vote.

There are many moving parts to this, so I don't expect any major development for at least a year.

 

[EH7]

To use a very specific example if this all gets sorted in time, Brady Schultz (Mooseheads OA) could greatly benefit from this, and play at a low or mid-tier D1 program next season.

 

[JMCx4]

To use a very specific example if this all gets sorted in time, Brady Schultz (Mooseheads OA) could greatly benefit from this, and play at a low or mid-tier D1 program next season.

Well, there we have it, then.

 

[AUS Fan]

To use a very specific example if this all gets sorted in time, Brady Schultz (Mooseheads OA) could greatly benefit from this, and play at a low or mid-tier D1 program next season.

Is he going to school now at SMU or DAL? If so, are those credits transferrable?

Being a US citizen, he may have a better chance of going to an NCAA school, but would he gain much at a low or mid-tier school?

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

Is he going to school now at SMU or DAL? If so, are those credits transferrable?

Being a US citizen, he may have a better chance of going to an NCAA school, but would he gain much at a low or mid-tier school?

I would think the cost of tuition between Canadian and US schools will be a not-insignificant factor as well.

 

[EH7]

Is he going to school now at SMU or DAL? If so, are those credits transferrable?

Being a US citizen, he may have a better chance of going to an NCAA school, but would he gain much at a low or mid-tier school?

He, along with all the Mooseheads who have graduated high school take classes at SMU. I don't have the knowledge to say anything definitively on the transferability of his credit hours.

He's an undersized defenceman, so I guess the question is whether he/his family/agent feel he wants to pursue pro right away.

And for some additional context, both his parents were D1 athletes.

 

[AUS Fan]

He, along with all the Mooseheads who have graduated high school take classes at SMU. I don't have the knowledge to say anything definitively on the transferability of his credit hours.

He's an undersized defenceman, so I guess the question is whether he/his family/agent feel he wants to pursue pro right away.

And for some additional context, both his parents were D1 athletes.

Is he as good as Busby or Zazula?

 

[EH7]

Is he as good as Busby or Zazula?

In my opinion he is head and shoulders above both, but I might not the most neutral party.

To try to get away from this specific player and back to the overall topic of this thread, my point is that I think the biggest impacts of this will be on (the few) graduating American CHLers, with the rest generally coming out in the wash.

And at the end of the day I'm a DAL fan... so none of this will impact how much we perpetually suck in the slightest.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

My gut feeling is that we will see more "churn". Someone like a Peter Reynolds (who was orginally recruited by Boston College but declined) might play for the Saint John SeaDogs instead of starting in the USHL for his "red shirt" year. Then go to BC. If he has a good year, his scholarship gets renewed. Otherwise, if he doesn't, he's off to the NCAA portal. Say no top teams pick him up. Then he goes back to Saint John. He's used up one year of eligibility. Finishes up his Q career, and then enrols at UNB as a transfer with 4 years of eligibility left.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

My gut feeling is that we will see more "churn". Someone like a Peter Reynolds (who was orginally recruited by Boston College but declined) might play for the Saint John SeaDogs instead of starting in the USHL for his "red shirt" year. Then go to BC. If he has a good year, his scholarship gets renewed. Otherwise, if he doesn't, he's off to the NCAA portal. Say no top teams pick him up. Then he goes back to Saint John. He's used up one year of eligibility. Finishes up his Q career, and then enrols at UNB as a transfer with 4 years of eligibility left.

I think this is a great assessment.

I believe the top junior-aged players will gravitate more to the CHL, and (as a result) to stay competitive the USHL will become a fourth Major Junior league that competes for the Memorial Cup.

What is unclear to me is the impact on the Jr A leagues. Their entire business model has revolved around NCAA eligibility. There will be a reckoning very soon.

And at the end of the day I'm a DAL fan... so none of this will impact how much we perpetually suck in the slightest.

I could be wrong, but I believe that the top academic schools like Dal will gain from this, because you are already attracting those student-athletes most focused on their academics.

I would think the cost of tuition between Canadian and US schools will be a not-insignificant factor as well.

NCAA Div 1 programs are allowed 26 full scholarships, so tuition is not a factor outside of the Ivy League schools (who do not offer scholarships) and lower-tier schools (who offer fewer scholarships).

 

[MeHateHe]

What is unclear to me is the impact on the Jr A leagues. Their entire business model has revolved around NCAA eligibility. There will be a reckoning very soon.

That's a relatively recent phenomenon. Junior A leagues were more a part of the ladder in days past. Junior C used to lead to Junior B which used to lead to Junior A which led to major junior. It was a bit different because you'd have 14-year-olds showing up to try out and Junior B and C camps, and that's thankfully not a thing anymore. But there are going to be players looking for places to play. This doesn't change the numbers of players, and Junior A teams will still be using their numbers of graduated players as marketing pitches to both fans and prospective players, so they might talk more about how many of their players moved along to major junior and then to NHL teams.

I'd suspect Junior A will get a lot younger - and maybe they get out of the 20-year-old business entirely. At the end of the day, this looks like a reset to a more streamlined and hierarchical development system.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

<snip>
I'd suspect Junior A will get a lot younger - and maybe they get out of the 20-year-old business entirely. At the end of the day, this looks like a reset to a more streamlined and hierarchical development system.

If that's the case, we might see more of the 20-year-olds cut from Major Junior teams forgo their last year of Jumior eligibility, and instead of playing for a Junior A team go directly to USports instead.

But I've said it before, I agree that Junior A will suffer the most.