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OT: NBA Discussion Thread: Part III

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Maximus said:
I was thinking same thing about Monk. If I were Jackson I would have been VERY tempted to take Monk but I do believe Jackson as much as I can't stand the guy for what he's done to the Knicks, made the right call in taking Ntilikina.

From what I've been reading about him, of all the guards available at time of Knicks pick, Ntilinkina was the best one at potentially running the triangle.

Only guy I would have considered was Dennis Smith.

Best part of the draft for me has been we still have Porzingis...lol
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When Phil thankfully leaves in two years the triangle will end up in the dustbin of NBA history so what's the point in the long term?
 
I hate how they simplify what Phil is trying to do by just calling it the triangle. It's about constant ball and player movement to space on offense and break down defenses. Most successful teams run variations of it, and the Knicks biggest problem is defense.

I'm not crazy about Frank, but I don't know enough about him to be pissed off like some people are. I wanted Smith because I think his athleticism is unreal and he can be a dominant scorer
 
sabremike said:
When Phil thankfully leaves in two years the triangle will end up in the dustbin of NBA history so what's the point in the long term?
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Even if Phil thankfully leaves in two years, Ntilikina, from what I've read about him, looks like he has the ability both on the defensive end and offensive end to still be starting quality. So seeing that the triangle will be in play for next two years, I don't see how this pick backfires.

As I said, with the 8th pick, Knicks really didn't have tremendous options. For me it was either Frank or Smith. I was fine with either one.
 
RangerBlues said:
Ntilikina seems like a project. Is he staying in Europe?
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I don't know. If not I see him starting next year in White Plains because most people don't think he is NBA ready. Smith would've been a much better pick. I am almost 40 and it really dawned on me tonight that I am probably going to shuffle off from this mortal coil without ever seeing a Knicks championship.
 
sabremike said:
I don't know. If not I see him starting next year in White Plains because most people don't think he is NBA ready. Smith would've been a much better pick. I am almost 40 and it really dawned on me tonight that I am probably going to shuffle off from this mortal coil without ever seeing a Knicks championship.
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piper up, Dolan is due for an overdose any year now and then everything will be different
 
sabremike said:
I don't know. If not I see him starting next year in White Plains because most people don't think he is NBA ready. Smith would've been a much better pick. I am almost 40 and it really dawned on me tonight that I am probably going to shuffle off from this mortal coil without ever seeing a Knicks championship.
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Kind of funny you say this SabreMike about the liklehood of you will never see a Knicks title in your lifetime as I had this same exact conversation with a buddy of mine about all the teams I root for.,

My bud is a NY Giants, Yankee, Knicks and Ranger fan whereas I am a NY Jets,Mets,Knicks and Rangers fan and we are both same age...55.

So far since both of us have become sports fans which was at 8 years old, so we are talking 1970 since we both watched our first Super Bowls which was the Vikings vs Chiefs, here's the tally in championships for both of us for our respective teams that we actually remember and followed.

I honestly don't recall the Knicks beating the Lakers in '69 nor do I recall the Jets beating the Colts in the Super Bowl so I'm not counting that for me. On other hand for some reason I do recall running home from elementary school a bunch of times to watch the Mets WS games vs the Orioles so I will count that for me.

So here's the tally for the both of us and we just talked about this the past weekend while playing golf.

I have 2 Mets WS wins, No Jets SB's, 1 Rangers Cup and 1 Knicks NBA championship in '73 which I do remember. So that's a total of only 4 titles for my teams since 1970 in all 4 sports which is *** pathetic I know.

My buddy has 7 Yankee WS wins....4 NY Giants SB win, a Rangers Cup and a Knicks NBA championship for his teams since 1970 in all 4 sports for a total of 13 which obviously is a heck of alot less suffering than I have gone thru.

When we both talked about the future prospects for titles before our time on this earth ends(we both gave ourselves generously another 30 years till the age of 85), here's what we came up with.

I said for the next 30 years there will be no Knicks titles, no Jets SB's. I gave myself one Mets WS title and one more Rangers Cup win before I kick the bucket for a total of 2 more parades. That is so pathetic I can't even tell ya. In my hopefully 85 years on earth to likely have only gone to 2 parades so far('86 Mets and '94 Rangers) and if the gods shine on me to maybe go to two more for all my 4 teams is beyond pathetic.

My buddy on the other hand for next 30 years gave himself no Knicks titles as did I, 3 more NY Giant SB's which I actually think is on the low side, one more Cup as I did and 4 more Yankee WS wins which also sounds low for a total of 7 more parades to go to.

Moral of the story...why didn't my Dad like the Yankees instead of the Brooklyn Dodgers which became the Mets and why did he like Joe Namath so much, he gave up on the NY Giants?. The Knicks? There is no excuse for...just a disgrace that this this team has no championships in 42 years and likely won't win another for another 30 or so. The Rangers? I have hope for..alot more than the Knicks....lol
 
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I am a Mets, Knicks, Bengals, Red Bulls and Sabres fans (I would like to note I adopted the Sabres as my new team in 1997 after my Whalers were murdered) who was born in 1977. Other than the 1986 Mets when I was 8 years old I've seen nothing but failure. All of them have come close in my lifetime since but came up empty handed. All of the big 4 teams are far away from a title and the only one with any real hope in the upcoming years is the Sabres because they have Eichel. Red Bulls have been a consistent playoff team but the owners have decided they aren't going to spend money on the team anymore so they should be headed into the toilet soon with no hope until the soda people sell.
 
I'm mets jets knicks rangers too (not in that order). I have 1 cup and 1 world series (I'm not counting a college D1 hockey title). I'm also a supporter of West Ham who topped out around 10 years ago with an FA cup finals loss to liverpool so more of the same with them. I thought the Mets had a shot this year but now my sports future looks pretty bleak. My dad was a yankee fan but took me to met games since that's where we lived.

Maximus said:
Kind of funny you say this SabreMike about the liklehood of you will never see a Knicks title in your lifetime as I had this same exact conversation with a buddy of mine about all the teams I root for.,

My bud is a NY Giants, Yankee, Knicks and Ranger fan whereas I am a NY Jets,Mets,Knicks and Rangers fan and we are both same age...55.

So far since both of us have become sports fans which was at 8 years old, so we are talking 1970 since we both watched our first Super Bowls which was the Vikings vs Chiefs, here's the tally in championships for both of us for our respective teams that we actually remember and followed.

I honestly don't recall the Knicks beating the Lakers in '69 nor do I recall the Jets beating the Colts in the Super Bowl so I'm not counting that for me. On other hand for some reason I do recall running home from elementary school a bunch of times to watch the Mets WS games vs the Orioles so I will count that for me.

So here's the tally for the both of us and we just talked about this the past weekend while playing golf.

I have 2 Mets WS wins, No Jets SB's, 1 Rangers Cup and 1 Knicks NBA championship in '73 which I do remember. So that's a total of only 4 titles for my teams since 1970 in all 4 sports which is *** pathetic I know.

My buddy has 7 Yankee WS wins....4 NY Giants SB win, a Rangers Cup and a Knicks NBA championship for his teams since 1970 in all 4 sports for a total of 13 which obviously is a heck of alot less suffering than I have gone thru.

When we both talked about the future prospects for titles before our time on this earth ends(we both gave ourselves generously another 30 years till the age of 85), here's what we came up with.

I said for the next 30 years there will be no Knicks titles, no Jets SB's. I gave myself one Mets WS title and one more Rangers Cup win before I kick the bucket for a total of 2 more parades. That is so pathetic I can't even tell ya. In my hopefully 85 years on earth to likely have only gone to 2 parades so far('86 Mets and '94 Rangers) and if the gods shine on me to maybe go to two more for all my 4 teams is beyond pathetic.

My buddy on the other hand for next 30 years gave himself no Knicks titles as did I, 3 more NY Giant SB's which I actually think is on the low side, one more Cup as I did and 4 more Yankee WS wins which also sounds low for a total of 7 more parades to go to.

Moral of the story...why didn't my Dad like the Yankees instead of the Brooklyn Dodgers which became the Mets and why did he like Joe Namath so much, he gave up on the NY Giants?. The Knicks? There is no excuse for...just a disgrace that this this team has no championships in 42 years and likely won't win another for another 30 or so. The Rangers? I have hope for..alot more than the Knicks....lol
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Smith and Monk were sexier picks. And I was salivating at the idea of trading to get Josh Jackson. But, Frankie France is very intriguing. Given the turnstile the Knick guards have been, this kid looks like the potential to be an elite front court defender. He's 6'5" + at 19 years old. What if he grows another inch or two. He's got a good shot, but is pass first. He's definitely raw, but, this team is going to suck for a least the next year or two. If the goal is to build around KP, this kid, Willy HG and next's year #1, then the Knicks just need to cut the cord on Melo now, as we'll as cashing in on the value that Lee and KOQ may have.
 
The Knicks handled this pick how I want the Rangers to handle their 1st rounder tonight, took the highest potential player available. Kid has a chance to be amazing or could completely fail. It's very likely either happen and not a middle point. They did it with Porzingis as well. Hopefully he can develop into an AS quality PG/SG.
 
Interested to see how Frankie France pans out. Has the potential to be a really good two way basketball player.
 
jas said:
Smith and Monk were sexier picks. And I was salivating at the idea of trading to get Josh Jackson. But, Frankie France is very intriguing. Given the turnstile the Knick guards have been, this kid looks like the potential to be an elite front court defender. He's 6'5" + at 19 years old. What if he grows another inch or two. He's got a good shot, but is pass first. He's definitely raw, but, this team is going to suck for a least the next year or two. If the goal is to build around KP, this kid, Willy HG and next's year #1, then the Knicks just need to cut the cord on Melo now, as we'll as cashing in on the value that Lee and KOQ may have.
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In terms of cutting the cord on Melo that's an expensive slice. Word is he's trying to force the Knicks into releasing him so he can go wherever he wants. If that's the game he wants to play then Phil is just going to try to make things miserable for him. I just hope the Knicks can put together some sort of trade even if we take back a bad contract for 2 years but get a guy who can at least defend and set a good example
 
Minnesota will be trouble. Two undeniable superstars and Wiggins might be there soon if he gets his efficiency up.

Happy to nab Frank. His shot is inconsistent but his defense is real.
 
I hope for the best with Frank, and will be rooting for his success, but I've just got a bad feeling about him busting.

One of, if not the youngest?, players in the draft, coming into a high pressure and pretty toxic environment in the organization right now. How is he going to handle the ****show that this next season seems to be shaping up to be?

Scouts saying he lacks elite athleticism, weak handle for a PG, struggles to create his own offense, doesn't respond well when defenses pressure him on the ball, not a great first step, doesn't have a lot of jump, doesn't get to the rim AT ALL. I just don't see a starting PG (or 2 guard) in the NBA in him. BUT I HOPE I'M WRONG.

And IMO guard d-specialists are not that valuable in the NBA right now. Sure, you can frustrate guys for a bit, but guards like Curry, Klay, Kyrie, Lowry, Harden, Westbrook etc. are gonna get their points regardless. If Frank can't bring an offensive element, and I'd argue he hasn't really shown that proclivity (i know he's young...), then I just think he's a complimentary piece at best.

I firmly believe the Knicks must tank for a high draft pick next year. Because Zinger and Frank alone hardly compare to some of the young cores that teams like Philly, Lakers, Boston, Phoenix, Minny are building.
 
ponzu4u said:
I firmly believe the Knicks must tank for a high draft pick next year. Because Zinger and Frank alone hardly compare to some of the young cores that teams like Philly, Lakers, Boston, Phoenix, Minny are building.
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Dump Melo and Knicks will pick top-3.
 
I'd be ok with Dolan hiring Ujiri and just staying the **** away from the Knicks like he does with the Rangers. I've been iffy about Phil, but his moves when you look at the bigger picture are pretty decent. He wants to build the organization around unselfish two-way players that are smart and can move the ball. He and Clarence Gaines have done a great job getting Euro talent too
 
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