World Cup: National Team threads #2

[John Pedro]

smh Endrick missed a golden oportunity to score his second

 

[cgf]

Wirtz + Musiala is just a cheat code.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Doesn't matter either way, it's just France

I don't think France is aware they're playing today.

 

[cgf]

I don't think France is aware they're playing today.

Nagelsmann just has DD read and everyone actually plays hard against the French so they don't switch off the way they do against "smaller" teams.

 

[cgf]

Damn Mbappe almost looked like Wirtz/Musiala as he was dancing around there...at least until his final ball...

 

[cgf]

Well folks are gunna have a hard time criticizing Nagelsmann after that one. Very thorough defeat of the heavy favorites to win this summer's euros, with even the French defense having no answer for our attacking play when both Wirtz & Musiala are on the pitch.

 

[cgf]

According to Kroos that opening goal was something the coach staff had planned out.

Hopefully we bring a similar effort against the Dutch.

 

[Evilo]

Didn't watch the game and glad I didn't. Starting Pavard at CB is just trouble waiting to happen.
And Thuram up front, let' be honest, he can only score in average leagues and doesn't have international leve, especially at striker.
Well done DD to make germans overconfident and warning your own players against complacency.

 

[cgf]

Didn't watch the game and glad I didn't. Starting Pavard at CB is just trouble waiting to happen.
And Thuram up front, let' be honest, he can only score in average leagues and doesn't have international leve, especially at striker.
Well done DD to make germans overconfident and warning your own players against complacency.

Thuram and Pavard weren't really the main issue. Your midfield just wasn't as good as I'm used to it being; our buildup was able to play around you successfully and your possession play struggled with our press.

Rabiot had a number of bad scenes IIRC and WZE's inexperienced showed...Kroos in particular took advantage of him a few times.

But JN intentionally overloaded the midfield...starting 7 midfielders; Musiala, Wirtz, Havertz, Gundoga, Kroos, Andrich & Kimmich. So I dunno if you can even hold that against DD, especially with Griez hurt.

 

[HajdukSplit]

Canada and Costa Rica win their playoffs and qualify for the Copa America this summer

Croatia win another penalty shootout over Tunisia in a mini-tournament, they will play Egypt in the 'prestigious' ACUD Cup

 

[Evilo]

Thuram and Pavard weren't really the main issue. Your midfield just wasn't as good as I'm used to it being; our buildup was able to play around you successfully and your possession play struggled with our press.

Rabiot had a number of bad scenes IIRC and WZE's inexperienced showed...Kroos in particular took advantage of him a few times.

But JN intentionally overloaded the midfield...starting 7 midfielders; Musiala, Wirtz, Havertz, Gundoga, Kroos, Andrich & Kimmich. So I dunno if you can even hold that against DD, especially with Griez hurt.

When you get scored on after 9 seconds, I think it's fair to say your D and not your midfield got ran over.
Literaly, the CB looked at Wirtz and never pressed him before his shot. All the time in the world. Blaming tthe midfield there is weird to me.
And without that goal at second 9, I believe match would have been different.
I didn't watch it, but I saw the goal which is ridiculous to give up. And starting a game at 0-1 changes the whole complexity of it.

I also saw Thuram was generally the worst rated player on the team. So, yeah.

 

[cgf]

When you get scored on after 9 seconds, I think it's fair to say your D and not your midfield got ran over.
Literaly, the CB looked at Wirtz and never pressed him before his shot. All the time in the world. Blaming tthe midfield there is weird to me.
And without that goal at second 9, I believe match would have been different.
I didn't watch it, but I saw the goal which is ridiculous to give up. And starting a game at 0-1 changes the whole complexity of it.

I also saw Thuram was generally the worst rated player on the team. So, yeah.

*7 seconds, not 9

Coming after Pavard for Wirtz's goal is weird when he was much further from Flo than Upa or Kounde.

 

[Evilo]

*7 seconds, not 9

Coming after Pavard for Wirtz's goal is weird when he was much further from Flo than Upa or Kounde.

Which is the problem. Pavard and Kounde both crossed their path which was nonsense. Upa expected Pavard to step up, he didn't and Upa moved too late.

 

[cgf]

Which is the problem. Pavard and Kounde both crossed their path which was nonsense. Upa expected Pavard to step up, he didn't and Upa moved too late.

Upa was in much better position to take Wirtz from Kounde than Pavard; who had to cover the ball out wide to Havertz, that Kounde had left wide open (see the 2nd image). I know Upa makes some spectacularly bad decisions, but there's no way he was dumb enough to think Pavard should be the one dealing with Wirtz in this situation.

That goal was either on Kounde for confusing everyone by following Wirtz too far, or it was on Upa for not trusting Theo to track Musiala's run and hesitating too long to take Wirtz from Kounde. At worst Pavard was the third most responsible player for that goal...but even then you're absolving the midfield for allowing Kroos to find Wirtz with that much space.

 

[Evilo]

You come too late to the play. When you see from kickoff you see the defensemen running backwards instead of pressing. Midfield was as such easily passed over because of the D.
Over that play (again your stills are too late), Kounde and Pavard cross path for no reason except their lack of awareness. Upa realizes too late nobody is pressing and moves forward too late.
But the right side that's responsible for that crap.

 

[Savant]

You come too late to the play. When you see from kickoff you see the defensemen running backwards instead of pressing. Midfield was as such easily passed over because of the D.
Over that play (again your stills are too late), Kounde and Pavard cross path for no reason except their lack of awareness. Upa realizes too late nobody is pressing and moves forward too late.
But the right side that's responsible for that crap.

Meanwhile Konate (who plays LCB for France) and Saliba were on the bench. Konate is not 100% fit, don’t know what Saliba was doing there though

 

[cgf]

You come too late to the play. When you see from kickoff you see the defensemen running backwards instead of pressing. Midfield was as such easily passed over because of the D.
Over that play (again your stills are too late), Kounde and Pavard cross path for no reason except their lack of awareness. Upa realizes too late nobody is pressing and moves forward too late.
But the right side that's responsible for that crap.

I included the video because you can only scroll back in 10 second intervals, so getting other frames was annoying and I figured folks could watch it for themselves. Not saying that Pavard played everything perfectly, just seemed weird to pick him out for criticism on that goal

 

[Evilo]

I included the video because you can only scroll back in 10 second intervals, so getting other frames was annoying and I figured folks could watch it for themselves. Not saying that Pavard played everything perfectly, just seemed weird to pick him out for criticism on that goal

The video shows the ball already launched.

 

[luiginb]

evilo s hate for Pavard is almost as irrational as my love for him

I included the video because you can only scroll back in 10 second intervals, so getting other frames was annoying and I figured folks could watch it for themselves. Not saying that Pavard played everything perfectly, just seemed weird to pick him out for criticism on that goal

 

[cgf]

The video shows the ball already launched.

Oh gotcha, well here it is from the kickoff & I still don’t see why you blame Pavard. It’s the midfielders that let our front 3 just run right by them without putting enough pressure on Kroos to prevent him from finding Flo in acres of space. So Pavard ends up having to track Havertz run in behind Kounde.

 

[cgf]

evilo s hate for Pavard is almost as irrational as my love for him

Liar, nothing is as irrational as your love for Pavard. Not even my love for Kruse

 

[Evilo]

Nah, Kroos sends it over the midfield from the get-go.
But Pavard has already ran like a headless chicken on his right (tracking a German player), leaving Kounde lost like a deer in the headlight.
Pavard's stupid movement and Kounde's lack of reaction cost that goal.

 

[cgf]

Nah, Kroos sends it over the midfield from the get-go.
But Pavard has already ran like a headless chicken on his right (tracking a German player), leaving Kounde lost like a deer in the headlight.
Pavard's stupid movement and Kounde's lack of reaction cost that goal.

Your attackers & midfielders push forward to press, allowing our front 3 + Gundogan to blow right by them, well before Kroos sends it over their heads. You can see it the pics below, the ball is still on Kroos' foot and your midfielders have already allowed our attackers acres of space in front of your defense.

Regardless of any mistakes that Kounde / Pavard / Upamecano made from there, that was the moment you gave up that goal because if even one of your midfielders had thought to track any of our runs...instead of all getting sucked in by Toni like a group of 8yo American kids...you'd have probably prevented that goal.

In that frame the goal was still preventable, but your midfielders all make the wrong decision so that by this next shot you are already beaten. Pavard either runs with Havertz to create space for Wirtz to score like he did, or he lets Kroos dink it over the entire team for Kai to run onto.

I just don't understand what you are suggesting that Pavard should've done...and I don't even put too much blame on Kounde or Upa. Tchou made the first mistake by not turning to run with our attackers, and that mistake was exacerbated by WZE / Rabiot not running with Wirtz to cover for Tchou.

Once Kroos had enough time to pick out his pass and our runners had time to get behind your midfield, the backline was in a lose-lose situation where they would give us the opportunity to create a dangerous chance no matter what. Pavard may have picked the worse poison, but he was picking poison either way.

 

[Evilo]

Your attackers & midfielders push forward to press, allowing our front 3 + Gundogan to blow right by them, well before Kroos sends it over their heads. You can see it the pics below, the ball is still on Kroos' foot and your midfielders have already allowed our attackers acres of space in front of your defense.

Regardless of any mistakes that Kounde / Pavard / Upamecano made from there, that was the moment you gave up that goal because if even one of your midfielders had thought to track any of our runs...instead of all getting sucked in by Toni like a group of 8yo American kids...you'd have probably prevented that goal.

In that frame the goal was still preventable, but your midfielders all make the wrong decision so that by this next shot you are already beaten. Pavard either runs with Havertz to create space for Wirtz to score like he did, or he lets Kroos dink it over the entire team for Kai to run onto.

I just don't understand what you are suggesting that Pavard should've done...and I don't even put too much blame on Kounde or Upa. Tchou made the first mistake by not turning to run with our attackers, and that mistake was exacerbated by WZE / Rabiot not running with Wirtz to cover for Tchou.

Once Kroos had enough time to pick out his pass and our runners had time to get behind your midfield, the backline was in a lose-lose situation where they would give us the opportunity to create a dangerous chance no matter what. Pavard may have picked the worse poison, but he was picking poison either way.

But you keep ignoring the defensemen moved back instead of going to press high to go with the midfield. That's their responsibility. Play stops right there if they do move foward. You never press with just midfield. The whole team has to go up the field.

I don't understand how you can't see it. CBs were just sleep walking and when the ball was launched, Pavard ran like a headless chicken, leaving Kounde watching with the best tickets in town. Upa closed down way too late as well.

 

[cgf]

But you keep ignoring the defensemen moved back instead of going to press high to go with the midfield. That's their responsibility. Play stops right there if they do move foward. You never press with just midfield. The whole team has to go up the field.

I don't understand how you can't see it. CBs were just sleep walking and when the ball was launched, Pavard ran like a headless chicken, leaving Kounde watching with the best tickets in town. Upa closed down way too late as well.

If Pavard steps forward instead of turning to run with Kai, then Kroos plays it right over their heads and Havertz has a 1-on-1 with the keeper. As we saw, the press wasn't going to get to Toni in time.