Nathan Mackinnon - the best player in the league

[Avsfan1921]

I could see McDavid somewhat pacing himself offensively to improve his defensive game to lead the team. Then come play off look like he was shot out of a cannon offensively.

I highly doubt any player “paces” themselves offensively lol.

Mcdavid is the best player in the world no doubt. Although others can compete for stretches, nobody has his consistency.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Because anyone pumping ind stats ignores the rings, which someone still doesnt have.

everyone who watches hockey knows they have nothing to do with each other

 

[Duke74]

Drai does get somewhat easier matchups but he also plays with lesser teammates typically.

I'd actually like to see the QoC metrics because often times, Draisaitl is out against the other team's top scoring line whereas McDavid's line faces the other team's shutdown lines.

 

[Duke74]

I agree to a point, but I often find this aspect of the argument is left out, not just with these two players.

People bring up QoC but ignore QoT even though they are usually closely linked.

Draisaitl is literally the only superstar in the league that often plays with two fourth-liners.

 

[Fishy McScales]

I'd actually like to see the QoC metrics because often times, Draisaitl is out against the other team's top scoring line whereas McDavid's line faces the other team's shutdown lines.

hockeystatcards.com has McDavid with harder QoC and better QoT except for on defense where they are pretty close.

Drai has the higher net rating of the two, however.

Not sure how reliable the source is but it matches my eye test so far at least.

 

[benfranklin]

Draisaitl is literally the only superstar in the league that often plays with two fourth-liners.

"Often", but the other 45% of the time plays with the best player in the world. Guess where the bulk of his points come from, the 4th liners or the god of hockey?

 

[Oilslick941611]

"Often", but the other 45% of the time plays with the best player in the world. Guess where the bulk of his points come from, the 4th liners or the god of hockey?

MacK leads in points and then some is entirely due to EN points, so what are we saying here ? That only certain situations matter and not all point are points if you are playing with another player?

 

[benfranklin]

MacK leads in points and then some is entirely due to EN points, so what are we saying here ? That only certain situations matter and not all point are points if you are playing with another player?

Dont claim player A plays with scrubs when in reality he plays with the best player in the world for 45% of his entire ice time. Its not like they only share PP time together. The team sucks so much, they have to put them together to get any offense going.

 

[Duke74]

"Often", but the other 45% of the time plays with the best player in the world. Guess where the bulk of his points come from, the 4th liners or the god of hockey?

It's not exactly rocket science that a star player will generate more offense with another elite superstar than with a glorified ECHL player. The same rule applies to every player in the league so it shouldn't be used solely against Draisaitl.

 

[PaulD]

I highly doubt any player “paces” themselves offensively lol.

Mcdavid is the best player in the world no doubt. Although others can compete for stretches, nobody has his consistency.

But over the last couple of seasons Mackinnon has. Ergo the debate.

What I was eluding to was that Connor strengthening his defensive game, leading the team thus his offensive numbers have gone down ( 60+ goals of three seasons ago)

Ray Bourque and Mark Messier have both been quoted saying eventually you learn to pace yourself if you play late in May, and play well.

Oilers are where the Bolts were in 2020 and Panthers in 2022. Collectively realizing that regular season means nothing other than making the play offs. Connor and the team aint blowing their wad in 82 game point race.

 

[TheNumber4]

Product of Makar.

It’s no coincidence that MacK is only talked about in the same breath as McD, post Makar draft.

 

[Avsfan1921]

But over the last couple of seasons Mackinnon has. Ergo the debate.

What I was eluding to was that Connor strengthening his defensive game, leading the team thus his offensive numbers have gone down ( 60+ goals of three seasons ago)

Ray Bourque and Mark Messier have both been quoted saying eventually you learn to pace yourself if you play late in May, and play well.

Oilers are where the Bolts were in 2020 and Panthers in 2022. Collectively realizing that regular season means nothing other than making the play offs. Connor and the team aint blowing their wad in 82 game point race.

I don’t doubt guys pace themselves, but I do when saying they’re pacing themselves offensively to save more for defence.

 

[BlueAzN]

Makar is better and its a AINEC diff

 

[PaulD]

I don’t doubt guys pace themselves, but I do when saying they’re pacing themselves offensively to save more for defence.

OK. They strengthen their defensive game and as a result of that , their offensive pace of seasons prior drops a bit. And they're OK with it.

 

[Grifter3511]

Because anyone pumping ind stats ignores the rings, which someone still doesnt have.

I'm slightly confused with the thread here. Are you saying that because Jean Beliveau has a Stanley Cup and McDavid doesn't, McDavid isn't the best player in the league right now?

 

[BluesyShoes]

I'd actually like to see the QoC metrics because often times, Draisaitl is out against the other team's top scoring line whereas McDavid's line faces the other team's shutdown lines.

That's actually an interesting point I haven't really considered (although I'm not really a stats guy.) How do those QoC metrics evaluate shutdown lines vs scoring lines?

I'm not sure which I'd rather face for a benefit statistically. Shutdown lines basically just try to tread water and slow the bleeding--if you are facing a shutdown line, it is almost by design that you either outscore them or come out even. Top lines might be easier to score against, but you might never have the puck, and both sides are more likely to score. Its a generalization, but it's kind of choosing between performing in a low event or high event environment, which are actually pretty different. Success in one may not mean success in the other.

One player stylistically might be better tailored to success against shutdown lines, while the other better against offensive players, i.e. speed, rush offense, elite skating vs possession, puck protection, board battles. That story wouldn't really get measured in the statistics, and success might have some (or more than some) dependance on stylistic matchup.

Do QoC stats skew in favour of either role?

 

[TheLegend27]

if empty net goals are so easy why isn't your guy scoring them

Because MacKinnon outright refuses to leave the ice with an empty net in sight. I’ve read he has 20:00 ish empty net TOI this season compared to 6:50 for Kucherov. Not trying to hate since empty net points help put the game away, but MacKinnon certainly puts himself in positions to rack them up.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Because MacKinnon outright refuses to leave the ice with an empty net in sight. I’ve read he has 20:00 ish empty net TOI this season compared to 6:50 for Kucherov. Not trying to hate since empty net points help put the game away, but MacKinnon certainly puts himself in positions to rack them up.

again so why doesn't kucherov. empty net goals secure a win. seems like mack is better conditioned or just smarter to take advantage.

 

[Jixer19]

Because MacKinnon outright refuses to leave the ice with an empty net in sight. I’ve read he has 20:00 ish empty net TOI this season compared to 6:50 for Kucherov. Not trying to hate since empty net points help put the game away, but MacKinnon certainly puts himself in positions to rack them up.

How does empty net time on ice equal anything? Maybe the Avs are in closer games and the one leading more often to have more chances at said empty nets? Just looking at that stat equates nothing at all

 

[Greatzsky 99]

But over the last couple of seasons Mackinnon has. Ergo the debate.

What I was eluding to was that Connor strengthening his defensive game, leading the team thus his offensive numbers have gone down ( 60+ goals of three seasons ago)

Ray Bourque and Mark Messier have both been quoted saying eventually you learn to pace yourself if you play late in May, and play well.

Oilers are where the Bolts were in 2020 and Panthers in 2022. Collectively realizing that regular season means nothing other than making the play offs. Connor and the team aint blowing their wad in 82 game point race.

since 22/23 till today RS and PO
So are McKinnon really on McDavids level, when it comes to producing points, last 3 seasons?
The data says otherwise

 

[PaulD]

Didn't say that. I said since McDavids 60+ goal season.
Which leavrs only the last two seasons the gap has lessened.
Will it continue they way.?.....i have no idea.

 

[benfranklin]

since 22/23 till today RS and PO
So are McKinnon really on McDavids level, when it comes to producing points, last 3 seasons?
The data says otherwise

A couple is 2.

 

[El Travo]

Because MacKinnon outright refuses to leave the ice with an empty net in sight. I’ve read he has 20:00 ish empty net TOI this season compared to 6:50 for Kucherov. Not trying to hate since empty net points help put the game away, but MacKinnon certainly puts himself in positions to rack them up.

Context of the game matters too. The Avs have been leading by one goal in the final minutes of a game quite a lot. Bednar wants the top line out there to secure the win because they are exceptionally effective 5 on 6. The top line understands the assignment and stays out there. There's only like a couple other guys on the team I'd trust to put the game away.

What I don't understand is teams pulling the goalie again after an empty net goal against. It's absurd how many times the Avs have scored two empty net goals in a game this season. What's even more comical is how many hat tricks have been completed due to the empty net.

 

[McFlash97]

Dont claim player A plays with scrubs when in reality he plays with the best player in the world for 45% of his entire ice time. Its not like they only share PP time together. The team sucks so much, they have to put them together to get any offense going.

In reality. You seem absolutely clueless about the player and team that now your throwing out blanket statements.

The team sucked so much, that it took a Pietroangelo 2 handed over the head slash to Leon's wrist in order for Vegas to win that series 2 years ago.

 

[Greatzsky 99]

A couple is 2.

wow, which season are you counting then, this, or maybe you just take out not seasons before new years, or not after new year, home games only, wednesday and fridays dont count, exclude games satring before 7 pm local time, since you make the rules, which are the 2 season you talk about? when did they start and end then?

i think most people would agree that from 2022/23 till now is about 2 seasons, were not even half way in in this regular season yet, only NJ has played half of the 82, Tampa has 34, why dont make a comment on the numbers that i put up?