Nathan MacKinnon, on par with the best in business?

[Cup or Bust]

MacKinnon is a great player, there is no doubt about that. Outside of McDavid he would be choice number 1.

 

[bobholly39]

What about since the start of 2023 which is what the thread is about? And how many empty net points?

Since Jan 1st 2023, MacKinnon has 15 empty net points to Kucherov's 19. Since the start of the 23-24 season, it's 16-13 for Kucherov. They both score a lot of empty net points, but Kucherov a few more past 2 years. Don't think it's that significant.

If you go back to 2017-2018, the start of both player's prime, it's:

43 Empty Net Points for MacKinnon for 36 for Kucherov.

Also since 2017-2018 season:

McDavid 1.60 ppg
Kucherov 1.46 ppg
MacKinnon 1.42 ppg

Kucherov has generally been a superior point producer than MacKinnon throughout their primes.

 

[benfranklin]

Since Jan 1st 2023, MacKinnon has 15 empty net points to Kucherov's 19. Since the start of the 23-24 season, it's 16-13 for Kucherov. They both score a lot of empty net points, but Kucherov a few more past 2 years. Don't think it's that significant.

If you go back to 2017-2018, the start of both player's prime, it's:

43 Empty Net Points for MacKinnon for 36 for Kucherov.

Also since 2017-2018 season:

McDavid 1.60 ppg
Kucherov 1.46 ppg
MacKinnon 1.42 ppg

Kucherov has generally been a superior point producer than MacKinnon throughout their primes.

Why didnt he get the Hart or Lindsay last year? Maybe there is more to the game than purely points. I know ass backwards to think about, especially in Edmonton where defense isnt a thing.

 

[daver]

Enough with the losing playoff runs. We get it McDavid puts up a lot of points and his teams loses. maybe he/they should focus on defense more.

16 games winning the Cup at 2.0 ppg pace = 32 points
28 games losing the Cup at 2.0 ppg pace = 56 points breaking all of Gretzkys records.

Give me the Cup all day.

What about since the start of 2023 which is what the thread is about? And how many empty net points?

What about since the start of 2023 which is what the thread is about?

Mac is even a bigger loser than McDavid.

 

[benfranklin]

What about since the start of 2023 which is what the thread is about?

Mac is even a bigger loser than McDavid.

The entire OP maybe...

Insert Patrick Roy to Roenick diss.

 

[AvroArrow]

I thought it was well established that McDavid/Mackinnon/Kucherov are all in the super elite top tier, then there's everyone else ?

 

[Romang67]

What about since the start of 2023 which is what the thread is about?

Mac is even a bigger loser than McDavid.

Apparently MacKinnon stopped caring about the playoffs to instead focus on the regular season, which is why he put up 21 points in 18 games in the last two playoffs and won only one playoff series.

 

[JFedol]

McDavid's 42pt playoff run + the 100 assist season alone shits on any season that bum ass DueKinnon has put up

 

[kevsh]

I'm going to start my own thread: Where will MacKinnon rank all-time when he's done playing?

Lots of talk about McDavid being top 10 already, even cracking the <gasp> top 5, but Mack going toe-to-toe even for a few seasons with a <gasp> top 5 all-time player in his own prime's got to get Nate some love right?

 

[tucker3434]

Have them switch teams and I think McDavid would be lapping him. Edmonton has never had a Makar on the backend.

We've heard people argue that Draisaitl is better than MacKinnon. So if McDavid is playing with someone better than MacKinnon and MacKinnon is outscoring him, there's something going on.

 

[the_fan]

McDavid's 42pt playoff run + the 100 assist season alone shits on any season that bum ass DueKinnon has put up

 

[benfranklin]

Apparently MacKinnon stopped caring about the playoffs to instead focus on the regular season, which is why he put up 21 points in 18 games in the last two playoffs and won only one playoff series.

He could never win another Cup again and still has more than McDavid. And captain obvious, but lets pretend RNH or Hyman or whoever you consider to be your third best forward quits on you mid series two years in a row. Kindof a bug deal that is out of his hands.

I'm going to start my own thread: Where will MacKinnon rank all-time when he's done playing?

Lots of talk about McDavid being top 10 already, even cracking the <gasp> top 5, but Mack going toe-to-toe even for a few seasons with a <gasp> top 5 all-time player in his own prime's got to get Nate some love right?

Those are from people who have no idea how to analyze a players career. McDavid today is top 75. Assuming pace and Cup(s), he will be top 10 eventually, but he isnt there yet.

MacKinnon is top 100 currently. Can argue top 75 with the Cup and Hart/Lindsay now easily.

 

[Romang67]

He could never win another Cup again and still has more than McDavid. And captain obvious, but lets pretend RNH or Hyman or whoever you consider to be your third best forward quits on you mid series two years in a row. Kindof a bug deal that is out of his hands.


Those are from people who have no idea how to analyze a players career. McDavid today is top 75. Assuming pace and Cup(s), he will be top 10 eventually, but he isnt there yet.

MacKinnon is top 100 currently. Can argue top 75 with the Cup and Hart/Lindsay now easily.

"Your" third best forward?

Are you under the impression that I'm an Oilers fan?

 

[AslanRH]

without a cup, McKinnen would just be a flashier Joe Thornton

 

[benfranklin]

"Your" third best forward?

Are you under the impression that I'm an Oilers fan?

Ok "their" then. Still applies to the point of the post celebrating playoff losses and ignoring context of the rest of the lineup. Nuke's drug problem crippled the Avs two straight seasons. For all we know, they're trying to 4 peat this season in who knows fantasy world.

McDavid and Bouchard put up a zillion points and lost. They didnt show up in Game 7 when it mattered. They have zero Cups. MacKinnon did show up in his closing game and has a ring that can never be taken away. Until McDavid can take the Hart back and win a Cup, he is less than.

I hope he leaves and goes to LA next year and creates a Kings dynasty. He deserves better than the crap management the Oilers have given him.

 

[Galactico]

I've been a Draisaitl fan for years and now think he's a half step behind the top 3 of McDavid, MacKinnon, and Kucherov. Being in the company of (arguably better) Matthews, Barkov, etc. isn't so bad either.

Have them switch teams and I think McDavid would be lapping him. Edmonton has never had a Makar on the backend.

But according to Oilers fans McDavid has been playing with the “2nd best player in the league” for years now.

 

[Romang67]

Ok "their" then. Still applies to the point of the post celebrating playoff losses and ignoring context of the rest of the lineup. Nuke's drug problem crippled the Avs two straight seasons. For all we know, they're trying to 4 peat this season in who knows fantasy world.

McDavid and Bouchard put up a zillion points and lost. They didnt show up in Game 7 when it mattered. They have zero Cups. MacKinnon did show up in his closing game and has a ring that can never be taken away. Until McDavid can take the Hart back and win a Cup, he is less than.

I hope he leaves and goes to LA next year and creates a Kings dynasty. He deserves better than the crap management the Oilers have given him.

Do you think that the Oilers team in 2024 was as good as the Avs team in 2022?

As you said earlier in this thread that the Cup is a team achievement, it seems really weird that you're now trying to turn it into a single-player achievement.

You seem to want to pretend McDavid disappeared in the finals. He put up 11 points in 7 games. He was on the ice for 2 goals against 5v5, and 4 goals against all series.

 

[Video Nasty]

McDavid and Bouchard put up a zillion points and lost. They didnt show up in Game 7 when it mattered.

Don’t comment on games you didn’t watch. The biggest tell that someone didn’t watch McDavid in Game 7 of the Finals is the casual glance at the box score and seeing zero points, and translating that to not showing up.

Guy played half the final period, nearly half the entire game, and hit about four posts along the way. I don’t understand the gall to comment on the perceived lack of effort from one of the five greatest players to ever step onto the ice.

 

[Romang67]

But according to Oilers fans McDavid has been playing with the “2nd best player in the league” for years now.

And according to some Avs fans, Makar is a generational D-man. Fans of a team are notoriously inconsistent.

 

[WiLBoY]

Mackinnon is a truck and is definitely one of the best. He isn't really far off from McDavid. I find it funny that some on here call Mackinnon a bum, must be oiler fans. If you actually watch him play, you would know how dominant he is

 

[Galactico]

And according to some Avs fans, Makar is a generational D-man. Fans of a team are notoriously inconsistent.

Yes he is. But we never say that MacKinnon doesn’t have any help or has a shitty team unlike Oilers fans when they say that McDavid is “doing it all by himself” while also saying that Draisaitl is the 2nd best player of the world, that Hyman is a star 50 goal scorer, that Bouchard is a legit top 10 defenseman in the league and that RNH is a star player.

 

[Romang67]

Yes he is. But we never say that MacKinnon doesn’t have any help or has a shitty team unlike Oilers fans when they say that McDavid is “doing it all by himself” while also saying that Draisaitl is the 2nd best player of the world, that Hyman is a star 50 goal scorer, that Bouchard is a legit top 10 defenseman in the league and that RNH is a star player.

You have a poster literally on this page in this thread implying that McDavid choked in the playoffs when losing in game 7 of the Stanley Cup playoffs, while explaining away MacKinnon's recent early playoff exits with "He lost Nuke." If that's not implying that MacKinnon was failed by his team, I'm not sure what is.

MacKinnon's reliance on Makar (and vice versa) is extremely downplayed whenever Avs fans are defending one of them. This is not an Oilers-fans-only thing.

 

[Romang67]

For what it's worth, I think MacKinnon, unlike Draisaitl, is on the tier just below McDavid.

Of course, I also think a generational D-man would shine whether he's playing with MacKinnon or not.

 

[authentic]

Yet somehow I doubt you think the same about Benn outscoring Crosby for the entirety of the 2015 and 2016 calendar years, while Kane was first in PPG.

Hmm, I don’t think anyone thought Benn was the better player, but he was certainly getting himself into the conversation if Kane didn’t obliterate everyone in 2015-16. It’s not looking like anyone’s going to be surpassing MacKinnon by much this season.

 

[hamzarocks]

Mcdavid is 3rd to 5th all time

Mackinnon is 20th to 30th all time