Confirmed with Link: Nathan Horton to Toronto for David Clarkson

[blahblah]

Now we have to hear that Cyclones Rock didn't bother to do the math on why we appear to be close to a cap team this year. We started the season in the bottom quarter under 60 million.

We don't have capgeek anymore, which makes the math harder, but I'd be surprised if we start the season over 65 million with a 74 million cap. Just off of memory, I wouldn't be surprised to see us around 62.

Some of that could change with some trades, but I doubt we'll be over 65 to start the season.

Bottom line, we got screwed. Having said that if Clarkson can get back to 20 goals and within our system as a second line RW - we could salvage this to be less distasteful and less damaging. Maybe in a couple of years bury him back to the third line when we develop more of our youth.

 

[EspenK]

Now we have to hear that Cyclones Rock didn't bother to do the math on why we appear to be close to a cap team this year. We started the season in the bottom quarter under 60 million.

We don't have capgeek anymore, which makes the math harder, but I'd be surprised if we start the season over 65 million with a 74 million cap. Just off of memory, I wouldn't be surprised to see us around 62.

Some of that could change with some trades, but I doubt we'll be over 65 to start the season.

I have a spreadsheet I put together from capgeek and this is what it says:

Assuming Cam & Calvert split 4 mill (which at this point is a bit high I think), we bury Morin & Tropp have Dano,Wennberg, Rychel and Chaput on the roster and no Letestu we're between 64 & 66 million next year to start the season depending on what the C's sign for and what the backup goalie gets.. That is without adding anyone.

Projected out to the following year I see no Anisimov, shaving 3.3 mill off but Jenner, Cam & Calvert, Murray,Savard, Prout and Connauton will be due raises.

Bottom line is I think our flexibility from a cap/internal budget point of view will be somewhat limited especially a couple years down the road when Joey will want 8-9 mill or more.

 

[MAHJ71]

Salary Cap projection for 2015-16....$72 million.



http://nypost.com/2015/01/31/loonie-bin-tying-nhl-salary-cap-to-canadian-dollar-unfair/

CBJ commitments 2015-16:

Forwards (12) $34.4m (Hart.,Dubi,Joey,AA, Foligno,Boll,Clarkson,Wennberg,Jenner,Dano,Tropp, Morin)
Dman (7) $21.0m (Wiz,JJ,toots,Murray,Savard,Prout,Cotton)
Goalie (1) $7.4m (Bob)

Total committed $62.8 million.

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/CLB?year=2015

Amount available $9-10 million. Tropp and Morin can be buried in the AHL and the team would realize $1.3m worth of cap savings.

Need to sign: Back up goalie, 8th dman, Calvert/Cam/Test Tube

The Jackets are a "cap team" and that's without any improvement in the line up. Except Clarkson, of course. Great work JD and JK!!

There has been a lot of articles since that one that state many teams are anticipating a cap as low as $69 million...

 

[KeithBWhittington]

If this team doesn't start hot next season, I can see Richie being out of a job by the end of November. Too much space eaten up, A huge RyJo extension looming starting offseason 2016.

Bottom line on Clarkson: he will never justify his contract with his numbers. It's not going to happen. But, if he brings it nightly, the numbers might get overlooked a bit.

 

[ndd17]

If this team doesn't start hot next season, I can see Richie being out of a job by the end of November.

The end of November may be too late. Very likely that we missed out PO again. If fire Richards, then it should be done after this season. But more better to do it now.

 

[KeithBWhittington]

The end of November may be too late. Very likely that we missed out PO again. If fire Richards, then it should be done after this season. But much better to do it now.

If there is a guy out there that checks all the boxes for you, then I'd say pull the trigger,but they did just give Richie an extension and I think they still might be paying Scott Arniel

 

[niflheim]

The end of November may be too late. Very likely that we missed out PO again. If fire Richards, then it should be done after this season. But more better to do it now.

What alternatives? Endless sucking Slump in the beginning of season and bye - bye play off..
HCTR is passed stage but our blind FO likes him. I guess this November both HCTR and JK will be wired

 

[Jaxs]

I had high hopes when Horton was signed in 2013 summer. It seemed liked an eternity from his signing until being cleared to play in Jan 2014.

I forget the opponent at home last winter when Horton received a pass at the blue line from Murray, skated past the defenseman and scored on a beautiful wrist shot over the goalies shoulder short side. That was what I saw him do in Boston and after that snipe, it confirmed my thoughts that we have another scoring winger.

The situation as it has played out is the stuff that fiction is made of. To somehow turn Horton into Clarkson is incredible. I have and will reserve judgment until more of the pertinent facts come out about insurance matters and the like, although it is looking more and more like money saving rather than sound business judgment.

Clarkson has been crucified before putting on a Jackets sweater, so I will first see him play with my own eyes before I criticize him. Toronto's FO is to blame for his contract not Clarkson himself. For Clarkson to be playing for the Jackets with that contract is the fault of whoever made the decision to not insure Horton for half season.

 

[We Want Ten]

Now we have to hear that Cyclones Rock didn't bother to do the math on why we appear to be close to a cap team this year. We started the season in the bottom quarter under 60 million.

We don't have capgeek anymore, which makes the math harder, but I'd be surprised if we start the season over 65 million with a 74 million cap. Just off of memory, I wouldn't be surprised to see us around 62.

Some of that could change with some trades, but I doubt we'll be over 65 to start the season.

Bottom line, we got screwed. Having said that if Clarkson can get back to 20 goals and within our system as a second line RW - we could salvage this to be less distasteful and less damaging. Maybe in a couple of years bury him back to the third line when we develop more of our youth.

Did it once in his entire career. 4 years ago.

 

[Lateralous]

If you guys are expecting Clarkson to be a 2nd liner, you're going to be extremely disappointed. He's hard to watch because he can't skate and he's an absolute black hole for his line mates. That being said, he was always great at creating dirty goals out of nowhere. People talk about the 30 goal season but that was mostly Patrik Elias. Despite the goals, Clarkson reduced the effectiveness of the rest of the line. I actually liked Clarkson better as a 3rd liner. There were less goals but we were getting good production from the 3rd line without hampering either of the 2 scoring lines with his deficiencies.

By all accounts, he's also an excellent person off the ice and with charity. If you keep the expectations reasonable, I think you'll like him.

 

[ndd17]

What number would wear Clarkson? 23 and 71 is not available. Eliteprospects writes 18, I missed something? There are official information?

 

[Fro]

CBJ said he's wearing 18, yes

 

[Xoggz22]

This narrative about the CBJ being a "budget team" doesn't withstand scrutiny.

The Jackets have only been a few million away from the cap each of the last two seasons.

Clarkson's play for $5.25 million of cap hit for 5 more years on a contract which can't get bought out is not much consolation.

Simple question... If Horton isn't hurt, does our cap situation change? I'm talking $$, not performance. We don't know the impact of either but assume, based on history, that Horton would score more points.

I'm asking because a lot of this discussion has been focused on our Cap situation.

 

[RyanOhReally]

Simple question... If Horton isn't hurt, does our cap situation change? I'm talking $$, not performance. We don't know the impact of either but assume, based on history, that Horton would score more points.

I'm asking because a lot of this discussion has been focused on our Cap situation.

When the cap situation hasn't changed.

Clarkson after next season will cost 7 Million

Horton will still cost 6

It would also cost a MINIMUM of almost 1 million to have a body fill Horton's spot.

Yes, our Team Salary is higher in the season, but it's the same in the offseason, and people are ignoring that. Long term, starting on the 2018-2019 season, both contracts become nearly identical again, declining to 4.5 and then 3.5. So in 3 seasons, Clarkson will have played in 150-240 more games than Nathan Horton, while costing the exact same.

Yes, David Clarkson is the second highest payed player on the roster, but so was Nathan Horton!!!

 

[Xoggz22]

Commodore also comes off the books next year. $1.4M

 

[major major]

The deal is better than nothing, but the biggest issue I have is that the Leafs get a lot more out of it than we do. Why didn't we get more considering we were saving the Leafs a huge amount of cap space?

Dreger said today that the Jackets and Leafs were working on something bigger, up until two days ago, where Jarmo was asking for a defensive prospect as part of the deal.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Simple question... If Horton isn't hurt, does our cap situation change? I'm talking $$, not performance. We don't know the impact of either but assume, based on history, that Horton would score more points.

I'm asking because a lot of this discussion has been focused on our Cap situation.

I believe we could have gotten cap relief for his injury... I will stand corrected if not the case but the way I understand it.

But the CBJ are not about the CAP it's about $$$ (that is what limits us, not the cap).

Until we start getting 16k+ FULL PAYING CUSTOMERS (some of Doug's years we got that by a lot of discounts to players buying blocks of tickets when they signed contracts, to sponsors getting $10/20 tickets for employees, etc) we have no concern with the CAP.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Salary Cap projection for 2015-16....$72 million.



http://nypost.com/2015/01/31/loonie-bin-tying-nhl-salary-cap-to-canadian-dollar-unfair/

CBJ commitments 2015-16:

Forwards (12) $34.4m (Hart.,Dubi,Joey,AA, Foligno,Boll,Clarkson,Wennberg,Jenner,Dano,Tropp, Morin)
Dman (7) $21.0m (Wiz,JJ,toots,Murray,Savard,Prout,Cotton)
Goalie (1) $7.4m (Bob)

Total committed $62.8 million.

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/CLB?year=2015

Amount available $9-10 million. Tropp and Morin can be buried in the AHL and the team would realize $1.3m worth of cap savings.

Need to sign: Back up goalie, 8th dman, Calvert/Cam/Test Tube

The Jackets are a "cap team" and that's without any improvement in the line up. Except Clarkson, of course. Great work JD and JK!!

That's a good analysis - but also part of the reason why you can expect a trade or two before Monday. At least one d-man (Wiz, Tyutin, JJ) and likely either Calvert or Cam (whoever is lower priority). Now you can expect a salary coming back (for the d-man) but likely be an expiring contract.

 

[pete goegan]

I keep ready about what a lousy skater Clarkson is and how prone he is to falling. Might this present a possible strategy for economizing - put him on a line with Dano and Harnell and eliminate the need to zamboni the ice between periods?

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I keep ready about what a lousy skater Clarkson is and how prone he is to falling. Might this present a possible strategy for economizing - put him on a line with Dano and Harnell and eliminate the need to zamboni the ice between periods?

The Hartnell/Clarkson Down Charity could put an end to world hunger.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Let's say Clarkson is really only a $3 million player. Just get rid of Jared Boll's $1.7 million contract (he's redundant with Clarkson on the roster) and this move, along with the apparent insurance blunder, shouldn't negatively impact our competitiveness going forward.

How do you get rid of Boll...no one wants that contract.

 

[EspenK]

I keep ready about what a lousy skater Clarkson is and how prone he is to falling. Might this present a possible strategy for economizing - put him on a line with Dano and Harnell and eliminate the need to zamboni the ice between periods?

pete with a joke. way to go.

 

[CapnCornelius]

That's a good analysis - but also part of the reason why you can expect a trade or two before Monday. At least one d-man (Wiz, Tyutin, JJ) and likely either Calvert or Cam (whoever is lower priority). Now you can expect a salary coming back (for the d-man) but likely be an expiring contract.

Is that comforting? We're going to get rid of one of our best possession defensemen, a reasonably priced and productive forward in Atkinson and probably a solid depth player in Letestu...and then need to re-acquire similar pieces in free agency or otherwise find comparable replacements. Not to mention that our defense is woeful as it is. The pieces we needed to find homes for were one or both of Johnson/Tyutin and their oversized contracts for their contribution, but good luck doing that without taking an equally bad deal back.

 

[EspenK]

I believe we could have gotten cap relief for his injury... I will stand corrected if not the case but the way I understand it.

We would have gotten relief IF with Horton's salary we exceeded the cap.
And then only to the extent we were over the cap. If we were 2 million over, we would have received the $2 million to sign another guy. If the full 5 over that would be "relieved"

Part of the issue is we now are still in the same cap situation but without the possibility of going over because there is no guy to put on LITR. That is what made the deal so attractive to Toronto where 5 mill is chump change. They can bury that on LITR and still spend to the full cap.

As you pointed out Jackets are probably not eager to spend to the cap, much less 5 mill over so they now at least have a guy who can play and it isn't costing them any more $.

Given the situation this trade makes sense to both sides. The only better outcome would have been Horton miraculously recovering or another team seeking cap relief providing a better player back.

 

[CapnCornelius]

Here's something else that has bothered me--what was the rush?

There's no need to get this done prior to the deadline. We don't need Clarkson for a playoff run. So, why now?