Speculation: Nasty NAZ

[Kiwi]

The posts knocking Kadri are miscalculated pieces of work i tell ya. I will be some happy to see the moaning after Lou signs him in the off season.

We will be moaning all right with that kind of an albatross of a contract on the books
Hello cap hell in 3/4 years

 

[Wafflewhipper]

So what you are saying is Kadri needs to ride the coattails of other players to be effective?

Why in god's green earth would you want to sign a circus act like Kadri if he's not a difference maker.

Every post you make stsrts with " so you are saying". To quote good old Red Green " if you can't find him handsome you can at least find him handy".

 

[Pookie]

The reason he wasn't scoring was a "shooting cold streak"… ??



A shooting cold streak isn't the reason… it's the thing.

The reason he was on a shooting cold streak was because he was missing the net. The reasons for missing the net are probably related to talent and execution. Not which pant leg he puts on first of the way he drives to the rink.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

We will be moaning all right with that kind of an albatross of a contract on the books
Hello cap hell in 3/4 years

Sucks to be you then.

 

[thewave]

We will be moaning all right with that kind of an albatross of a contract on the books
Hello cap hell in 3/4 years

What do you consider overpayment? Where do you draw the line?

 

[Bluelines]

We aren't the Ottawa senators in that we need to abide by a strict internal budget. If this were the case, there'd be no Horton contract on the team.

You're also making the overly confident assumption that your player valuation is right and if Lou goes over your threshold, he's making a huge mistake. Sounds like you have decades of GM experience. Good to know.

So since we are rich team lets just throw them dollars around, heck why not spend to the cap on a bunch of ECHL players. Why not, no reason not to. Cookie school of cap management. Got's some money, spend it. Don't matter on what, just spend, spend, spend.

You're sarcastically inferring that since I'm not an NHL GM that my ability to assess a player is less than Lou's, that is fair, so moving forward on this forum you must have a minimum of NHL GM experience to post your opinion. I suspect you will never post again.

 

[Kiwi]

Sucks to be you then.

No sucks to be a supporter of a team that would do something that stupid
This management team are smarter than that

 

[Bluelines]

Why do you guys have to be so weird about it? It's pretty obvious Kadri is a second line C who scores a very average 45 or so points in any given season. His real charm is actually the way he moves his feet and his real talent the ability to draw penalties. The guys worth 4.5-5m no problem, but I wouldn't go 5.5

Yeah that fountain has dried up recently, refs are on to him. Even on legit penalties refs are letting things slide.

 

[TMLegend]

Why you gotta hate the players?

I didn't have an issue with Reimer, more so his fans, and the delusions they had about him. Hyberbolic comments didn't help his case.

One thing Kadri shares with Reimer is they both get alot of slack from the fanbase as a whole, and get excuses made left, right, and center when things aren't going well. Kadri the player is rather distasteful to me. He dives frequently, throws punches in scrums and hides behind the refs and has done some rather stupid things throughout his career. Something about how he runs at players too annoys me, almost like he hits to injure.

In short, he's dirty, and a rat, and don't have any time for him at his current production rates. I'd keep him around for 4 to 4.5M, any higher and he can take a hike.

 

[thewave]

5m a year is worth 3-4mins of PP time a night. That's a big thing when you get some elite scorers.

 

[Bluelines]

Sounds like witchcraft… do you weigh the same as a duck?

I do.

 

[cookie]

Nothing seems to be his fault according to you
He can't score his linemates fault
He plays against top lines that is what you want him to do if you are going to spend that kind of money and he needs to .do it better for that kind of paycheck
He can't penalty kill
He's 25 he ain't getting any better he is what he is
His 'leadership'is dubious at best and Bozak gives you that
Getting a guy like helm from Detroit is a far better option
Team leader
Penalty killer
Winner
Costs less and could be given less term
Defensively sound
And the assets from Kadris move
And that is just 1 example he will put up pretty close point totals 2
That is good asset management

Fault, fault, fault. Is this what your argument boils down to? Professional sports is based on finding faults and exposing them to gain the upper hand. Your idea of a player that can produce first line numbers, restrict opponents top line threats all under 5m sounds like something a Nigerian prince would email you.

How about a different perspective? He's getting better, that will be compounded with his team also getting better. His leadership might be "lacking" but we can only speculate. His on-ice conduct could be seen as someone who is emotional, kind of need more of these type of players. And speaking of leadership, what does it say when tybo would regularly be the second guy off the ice?

Do eventually trade the guy, but make sure it's a good trade. For now, he offers the team a whole lot.

 

[thewave]

Yeah that fountain has dried up recently, refs are on to him. Even on legit penalties refs are letting things slide.

Just the last coule games - but he still was able to draw one I believe. It's not a big deal, he draws them by being shifty not by diving. Some people here exaggerate his diving as well. I mean, he almost got his knee clipped off one game and he jumped and people called dive. Strange stuff

 

[cookie]

The reason he wasn't scoring was a "shooting cold streak"… ??



A shooting cold streak isn't the reason… it's the thing.

The reason he was on a shooting cold streak was because he was missing the net. The reasons for missing the net are probably related to talent and execution. Not which pant leg he puts on first of the way he drives to the rink.

Believe it or not, there's enough material to suggest that player shooting percentage stays relatively near mean in their careers. Over a large sample, like one's career, this truly was a cold streak. Instead of basing your opinion on probably, try a little Google. This shooting percentage literature was hot cakes during the slump, at least that was the case on Stephen Birtch's twitter.

 

[Kiwi]

What do you consider overpayment? Where do you draw the line?

What any halfway Descent 3rd line penalty killing center is worth around 4mill over 3 years that is all we need
This player is a placeholder until one of our prospects develops
That is what Kadri is worth to this team
Helm is a UFA he could do this no trouble
And we would get assets to from Kadris trade maybe picks or good young prospects how is this not a good idea

 

[crump]

Sounds like witchcraft… do you weigh the same as a duck?

I do.

"It's a fair cop"

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I laugh at Manson for doing the throat slash to him and getting clipped with a fine too. Unreal funny that he annoys players that bad.

 

[Bluelines]

Sounds like we'll be hearing objective reasoning from these parts. Let's forget that hockey players are angels with no fault in their on-ice conduct.

As for the complimentary piece argument: so what? Contenders have these pieces and they get them through the transition from bad to good. How about instilling a winning environment based on merit? How about keeping him unless you can find a second line center that can provide the same services Kadri does at whatever your caphit is. From the sounds of things, you want him gone for the sake of him being gone rather than a more thoughtful, objective reason.

You said if he was from Alberta he'd be called a guy who wears his heart on his sleeve. I simply pointed out that you ignored a very big part of the circus that follows Naz. You like to be very selective in your biased thought process about Kadri. Its OK Kadri can be skilled and troubled at the same time. I prefer players who don't bring their rain clouds with them where ever they go. If he didn't get suspended for multiple team rule infractions, If he didn't do that throat slash, if he didn't dive, I might like him, I personally don't like that circus act. If he was more Wendel Clark and less Matthew Barnaby I'd like him.

 

[Pookie]

Believe it or not, there's enough material to suggest that player shooting percentage stays relatively near mean in their careers. Over a large sample, like one's career, this truly was a cold streak. Instead of basing your opinion on probably, try a little Google. This shooting percentage literature was hot cakes during the slump, at least that was the case on Stephen Birtch's twitter.

Except here, when it declines every year?

For there to be a "career" mean, there are years left to play are there not?

Who is to say that the shooting percentage in the lock out year is the norm? Maybe, over the career, that's the outlier.

This regression to the mean nonsense is nonsense because it ignores the fact that the mean is constantly moving as more seasons are played.

There may be regression here but it isn't to the mean. It's a regression in shooting percentage

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Nathan Horton is signed until 2020, Lupul until 2018, robidas until 2017. Even if they are untradeable, these contracts should evaporate eventually. I love optimism, but the whole cap hit argument hinges on us competing in 2-3 years. We don't have a solution in net, only 2 reliable defensemen and if we keep Kadri, 2 centers we can build with.

Marner's on ELCS until 2019; this year's pick should be until 2020. If we are truly building from the draft, lots of expensive core pieces will be playing for quite a small Cap hit.

Not sure of the point you are making. If you remove the word "expensive", the sentence now reads: "If we are truly building from the draft, lots of core pieces will be playing for quite a small cap hit." I'm going to assume you meant this.

This has been discussed ad-naseum before. Probably not much I can add.

There's plenty of assumptions that have to be made to conclude that there won't be any team-cap concerns 4 or 5 years from now. We don't really know the owners plan, timeline, or intent. There's not much room for real-world factors if you're going to run with this rosy scenario.

But, as mentioned above, this has been discussed ad-naseum before and there's probably not much I can add. Hope the picture your painting and this scenario is right though. Its a good time for me to exit this debate.

 

[thewave]

What any halfway Descent 3rd line penalty killing center is worth around 4mill over 3 years that is all we need
This player is a placeholder until one of our prospects develops
That is what Kadri is worth to this team
Helm is a UFA he could do this no trouble
And we would get assets to from Kadris trade maybe picks or good young prospects how is this not a good idea

Ah well, Kadri plays with some edge and draws penalties. He's pretty consistently in the mid 40s for points I'd say. I mean, if you add it all up its pretty obvious he is a decent 2nd liner or good 3rd liner. I think his current contract is probably a bit low and 4.5m is just. 4.75 if you really want to stretch it.

 

[Bluelines]

How about a different perspective? He's getting better, that will be compounded with his team also getting better. His leadership might be "lacking" but we can only speculate. His on-ice conduct could be seen as someone who is emotional, kind of need more of these type of players. And speaking of leadership, what does it say when tybo would regularly be the second guy off the ice?

Do eventually trade the guy, but make sure it's a good trade. For now, he offers the team a whole lot.

Lets just take the last 2 games as a small sample size of what his "emotion" gets you.

Calgary game - Draws a penalty then embellishes a double slash. There was no need to embellish the double slash, it was a clear as the nose on your face but his "emotions" thought lets try to manipulate the refs into calling a penalty. Remember no need to embellish but his emotions told him, lets put some mustard on this dive and really sell it to the refs... Leafs lose a PP chance because of Kadris "emotions"

Anaheim game - with less than 3 minutes left in the 3rd period, Kadri gets a needless and thoughtless boarding penalty, his actions gave the best power play team in the league a man advantage with less than 3 minutes left. Once again Kadris emotions put the team at a disadvantage.

When stupid "emotions" override common sense and take away advantages for our team or give other team advantages you have to question the value of his emotions. Hey play with emotion just play with smart emotion.

 

[cookie]

Cookie..really? Dude think for a second why I picked 13 games. Think really hard. Now stop thinking cause you wont figure it out. Kidding. When did Nylander, and Shasha and Hyman and... all get called up? 13 games ago.... Now ask me how they performed over that stretch and how Kadri performed. I'll give you a hint they easily out produced him. That whole Kadri will get better when better players come up theory didn't quite work out for the Kadri excuse makers eh?

I fail to recognize he is a flawed player? LMAO... have you read anything I've posted in these Kadri threads?

Nah, you definitely have failed in the regard that you have repeatedly set the proverbial bar way too high in past threads (or maybe it's the other guy??). However, what I don't get is the continued microscope of his on-ice conduct. It's almost like you guys don't watch other games: there's tons of stickwork, even by no nonsense Canadian boys. Cheap shots are common place. Yet all I keep hearing is that he dives. You know something strange? He's never once been called for diving, just embellishments. There might not be a team in the league without one player who hasn't been called for that. As the Calgary game showed, these calls are highly subjective. Ton of Kadri's dives are because he's going to the areas where other teams players are put in precarious positions. That brings another double standard: long tenured NHLers doing this same stuff are praised for their veteran savvy.

The 13 games sample is still quite small. There's also the issue of players getting that adrenaline high and then crashing back down to earth after the first 1-2 games. There's been enough flubbing from Grabner to say that Naz could have a couple more points in that stretch. But I think that's just some of the many issues with 13 freaking game samples.

 

[Kiwi]

Ah well, Kadri plays with some edge and draws penalties. He's pretty consistently in the mid 40s for points I'd say. I mean, if you add it all up its pretty obvious he is a decent 2nd liner or good 3rd liner. I think his current contract is probably a bit low and 4.5m is just. 4.75 if you really want to stretch it.

I have no problem with him as our possible 3rd line center but to make that work he has to be paid like one he can't get a big money (5mill+)if that is his position the money will never work so is he good enough on a good team to be worth that or not i have serious doubts
I would rather get the assets for him personally

 

[cookie]

So since we are rich team lets just throw them dollars around, heck why not spend to the cap on a bunch of ECHL players. Why not, no reason not to. Cookie school of cap management. Got's some money, spend it. Don't matter on what, just spend, spend, spend.

You're sarcastically inferring that since I'm not an NHL GM that my ability to assess a player is less than Lou's, that is fair, so moving forward on this forum you must have a minimum of NHL GM experience to post your opinion. I suspect you will never post again.

Loving the holier than thou attitude here--keep it up! I am loving how you're maintaining your position is more valid than any one else's, especially considering how we haven't heard a peep from the front office about the negotiating figures.