Clint Benedict better than George Vezina?

[S E P H]

I've been reading some hockey history in the first decade of the NHL after the fiasco with Livingstone in the NHA where we get some semblance of consistency. But reading the history, I have come across that Benedict posted better stats than Vezina in almost every season including being a pioneer in certain stats like having the first shutout, etc. Was it because he was on a better team than Vezina or should we restructure history and the Vezina trophy should be renamed the Benedict trophy?

https://thehockeynews.com/all-access/top-100-goalies-no-16-clint-benedict

Click to read more...

 

[seventieslord]

Superficial stats have Benedict clearly ahead of Vezina, but contemporary reports make it clear who was considered the best goalie of the generation. Benedict was a great goalie, but he had a lot of help. His team was riddled with hall of Famers, especially on defense, and he had arguably the best defensive forward of all-time killing plays in the neutral zone.

 

[sr edler]

It's not only team strength (player personnel wise), but eras and systems as well. Vezina was 5 (or almost 6) years older than Benedict and thus played more in the high-roaring 10s. Then in the mid 20s when Benedict still "had years" (as Don Rickles would put it) GAA in general would plummet (and/or fluctuate a lot on a season-to-season basis as well, especially if you played on less stable teams, like say Roy Worters).

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

It's called the Vezina because it was donated by the Habs and he was a Hab. No reason not to name it the Hasek if it was based purely on performance.

 

[Crosby2010]

You can make a case if you want to have Benedict in the top 10 goalies of all-time. I rarely if ever see Vezina on that list. He had some innovation in his career being the first goalie to go down on his knees (hence the nickname "Praying Benny"). Also wore a mask 30 years before Plante did, albeit it was just to recover from a broken nose.

 

[seventieslord]

You can make a case if you want to have Benedict in the top 10 goalies of all-time. I rarely if ever see Vezina on that list.

You don't look at the lists in this forum then?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Have we ever identified any film on either of these guys at any point? I can't recall...

 

[jigglysquishy]

Have we ever identified any film on either of these guys at any point? I can't recall...

I don't think there's any film of Vezina.

Our video sources of Morenz and Shore are really scant and he's a whole generation older.

 

[Crosby2010]

You don't look at the lists in this forum then?

Vezina cracks the top 10 quite often I assume?

 

[seventieslord]

Vezina cracks the top 10 quite often I assume?

Quite often would be understating it

 

[jigglysquishy]

Vezina cracks the top 10 quite often I assume?

In the most recent pre-merger project Vezina was voted 5th amongst all-players (pre-~1926) and 1st amongst goalies. Benedict was voted 10th amongst all players and 2nd amongst goalies. Lehman was voted 11th amongst players and 3rd amongst goalies. No other goalie ended up in the top 25.

In the 2018 top 100 he was voted 66th amongst all players (10th amongst goalies) with Brimsek being the only other pre-WW II goalie ahead of him. Benedict was voted 74th (11th amongst goalies).

In the 2012 top 40 goalies he was voted 10th. Benedict was voted 12th (Gardiner was 11th for reference).


The general trend has been that they are relatively close all-time, but that Vezina is firmly ahead. The discussion in the pre-merger project focused on Benedict playing on the most stacked team of the era, with multiple HHOF defensive players in front of him throughout his prime.

 

[Crosby2010]

In the most recent pre-merger project Vezina was voted 5th amongst all-players (pre-~1926) and 1st amongst goalies. Benedict was voted 10th amongst all players and 2nd amongst goalies. Lehman was voted 11th amongst players and 3rd amongst goalies. No other goalie ended up in the top 25.

In the 2018 top 100 he was voted 66th amongst all players (10th amongst goalies) with Brimsek being the only other pre-WW II goalie ahead of him. Benedict was voted 74th (11th amongst goalies).

In the 2012 top 40 goalies he was voted 10th. Benedict was voted 12th (Gardiner was 11th for reference).


The general trend has been that they are relatively close all-time, but that Vezina is firmly ahead. The discussion in the pre-merger project focused on Benedict playing on the most stacked team of the era, with multiple HHOF defensive players in front of him throughout his prime.

Oh for sure, I agree they are close on an all-time ranking.