Nassau Coliseum Discussion

[denis]

and the politics still hasn't changed. the local politicians are more concerned about their parties being re-elected than about doing anything substantial to better the lives of long islanders. nothing good will happen anytime soon. I suspect more of long island will start looking like hempstead than garden city in the coming decade

Already happening. You can see it with your eyes, and have it confirmed by studies such as this one.

CHI Study Reports “Demographic Collapse†of Younger Workers in New York’s Richest Suburbs

http://chigrants.org/new-chi-study-reports-demographic-collapse-in-new-yorks-richest-suburbs/

Two factors in play: Traditional suburban zoning laws make it difficult for younger workers to find acceptable affordable housing, and Millenials preferences for urban rather than suburban environments. It's all cyclical, of course, but this is a cycle that will take decades to reverse.

Of course, bringing this back to the Coliseum, the tragedy is that the Lighthouse as originally proposed is exactly the kind of project that could have stemmed this tide and shortened any rebound. But of course, we can't have nice things.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

Already happening. You can see it with your eyes, and have it confirmed by studies such as this one.

http://chigrants.org/new-chi-study-reports-demographic-collapse-in-new-yorks-richest-suburbs/

Two factors in play: Traditional suburban zoning laws make it difficult for younger workers to find acceptable affordable housing, and Millenials preferences for urban rather than suburban environments. It's all cyclical, of course, but this is a cycle that will take decades to reverse.

Of course, bringing this back to the Coliseum, the tragedy is that the Lighthouse as originally proposed is exactly the kind of project that could have stemmed this tide and shortened any rebound. But of course, we can't have nice things.

The LHP would not have slowed or reduced spending by the idiots in government, and taxes going up would kill any positive effect. Now add the $15/hr minimum wage and all the other BS in the political theater......the LHP would have been like a cancer patient getting a catheter instead of chemo.

You wanna fix LI? Cut spending and taxes and bring in business with lowered regulations.

Which means get everyone out of government with a giant Olympic swimming pool sized enema and reduce government.

 

[nycole]

I honestly don't know everyone doesn't feel like this in Nassau County, nothing ever gets done!

Whether 13k or 16k seats, the problem is the NC was not a suitable professional sports arena before, and it still will not be after a $130 million renovation. It needed to be demolished for the Isles to stay, the renovation is just putting lipstick on a pig. Maybe the Isles play one or two games a year at the renovated NC as a thank you to the fans, but the Coliseum is a major money loser compared to the BC, it's not large enough to have the amenities the BC has.

It's not necessarily the quantity of the seats, but the quality of the seats. They could sell out a 18k arena every night, but if they don't have luxury boxes and premium seating in this time and place, the numbers won't add up. I have serious doubts that the economy and (changing) demographics of Long Island would sufficiently support the Islanders. With that said, the capacity of the arena doesn't seem to make a difference for about 36 regular season games a year either in Nassau or Brooklyn and in order to make the playoffs consistently, they need to make money consistently.

I'd give my left leg to open the Coliseum (and old Yankee Stadium) again, but it's not going to happen. I'd rather see them win in a new arena than witness more seasons of futility in the old one.

 

[stranger34]

The politics on LI stink, but you all are crazy with this demise of LI as an attractive place to live stuff. Most of the desirable neighborhoods are in more demand than ever and in the macro there are signs of cycling back towards suburban desirability as millennials are starting families. The increased popularity and acceptability of working remote is also playing into this.

Also, the tax issue is relatively overstated when you look at what it would cost to buy in NYC vs. LI/NJ.

 

[MikeyMike01]

The politics on LI stink, but you all are crazy with this demise of LI as an attractive place to live stuff. Most of the desirable neighborhoods are in more demand than ever and in the macro there are signs of cycling back towards suburban desirability as millennials are starting families. The increased popularity and acceptability of working remote is also playing into this.

As long as there are high paying jobs in NYC there will people who want to live on Long Island.

It's the people in the middle that are leaving and have no interest in LI anymore. It's simply too expensive to be an every day job and live here

 

[nycole]

The politics on LI stink, but you all are crazy with this demise of LI as an attractive place to live stuff. Most of the desirable neighborhoods are in more demand than ever and in the macro there are signs of cycling back towards suburban desirability as millennials are starting families. The increased popularity and acceptability of working remote is also playing into this.

Also, the tax issue is relatively overstated when you look at what it would cost to buy in NYC vs. LI/NJ.

Speaking for LI, for every desirable neighborhood, there's another that's, well, undesirable. When Millennials finally wake up and realize they actually don't want to pay for everyone else around them, the future won't look so bright. Out of the NYC Metro is always an option as well.

 

[nycole]

Another example of Nassau County's inability to get out of its own way (see, it's not just the NVMC!):

Some fans may not have anymore Free Parking while they go to Islanders games at the Coliseum (LOL) in a few years.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/03/18/latest-report-card-says-accreditation-could-be-in-jeopardy-at-nassau-community-college/

As an NCC graduate I think they prepare the student body well for their life on LI and in NYC after they leave. Though I'm sure if it comes down to losing accreditation, Nassau County will find some ponzi scheme for it to be publicly funded and privately operated and then it would work!

Edit: I'm going to stop here before it looks like I joined just so I can **** on Nassau County, because I didn't.

 

[YearlyLottery]

The politics on LI stink, but you all are crazy with this demise of LI as an attractive place to live stuff. Most of the desirable neighborhoods are in more demand than ever and in the macro there are signs of cycling back towards suburban desirability as millennials are starting families. The increased popularity and acceptability of working remote is also playing into this.

Also, the tax issue is relatively overstated when you look at what it would cost to buy in NYC vs. LI/NJ.

I am 18 years old and have already come to the conclusion that Long Island is too expensive to live after college.

It is really expensive here.

 

[blitzkriegs]

I am 18 years old and have already come to the conclusion that Long Island is too expensive to live after college.

It is really expensive here.

Go to a better college, get a better GPA in a desirable major, and get recruited for an attractive job. Aim high.

 

[blitzkriegs]

The politics on LI stink, but you all are crazy with this demise of LI as an attractive place to live stuff. Most of the desirable neighborhoods are in more demand than ever and in the macro there are signs of cycling back towards suburban desirability as millennials are starting families. The increased popularity and acceptability of working remote is also playing into this.

Also, the tax issue is relatively overstated when you look at what it would cost to buy in NYC vs. LI/NJ.

Most of the desirable neighborhoods are more attractive because the rest realize the other ones are trending down... That's a sign things are not looking so hot...I love this millenials desire the 'burbs thing, because it's in complete contravention of everywhere else in a major market - maybe you are just referencing typical Burbanites that moved to NYC for a couple years and want back to the burbs - that has nothing to do with millenials.

 

[JohnTonelliRises]

Go to a better college, get a better GPA in a desirable major, and get recruited for an attractive job. Aim high.

An excellent GPA and a worthwhile degree gets you a 60k job in NYC (50-55k outside of Manhattan). Even if you are successful enough to make 70 or 80k right out of college, paying anywhere from $1,250-2,000/month outside of Manhattan (anywhere else in the state), to live in a shoebox leaves with you next to nothing.

If you manage to save up for that 400-800k house in NY, you're buried in property taxes up to your eyeballs. Factoring in gasoline tax, state income tax, sales tax, expenses, kids.....


Needless to say, I love the dumb, gullible young saps that come to NY/NYC thinking it's the greatest city/place in the world. Makes it that much easier finding affordable living outside of this state.


You can't "make" it in NY anymore without help from someone else. These aren't the golden days of the 80s and 90s, when real estate was semi-affordable and there were so many jobs, every Tom, Dick, and Harry had a job just for breathing in college.

 

[stranger34]

I am 18 years old and have already come to the conclusion that Long Island is too expensive to live after college.

It is really expensive here.

As someone who just lived out there 20s, I'll predict it's too early to make that call. You never know what profession, job and or general life situation you may find yourself in when you are 18.

And I wish I was 18 again, on some levels anyway.

 

[stranger34]

An excellent GPA and a worthwhile degree gets you a 60k job in NYC (50-55k outside of Manhattan). Even if you are successful enough to make 70 or 80k right out of college, paying anywhere from $1,250-2,000/month outside of Manhattan (anywhere else in the state), to live in a shoebox leaves with you next to nothing.

If you manage to save up for that 400-800k house in NY, you're buried in property taxes up to your eyeballs. Factoring in gasoline tax, state income tax, sales tax, expenses, kids.....


Needless to say, I love the dumb, gullible young saps that come to NY/NYC thinking it's the greatest city/place in the world. Makes it that much easier finding affordable living outside of this state.


You can't "make" it in NY anymore without help from someone else. These aren't the golden days of the 80s and 90s, when real estate was semi-affordable and there were so many jobs, every Tom, Dick, and Harry had a job just for breathing in college.

You are right about the starting wages, but you paint way too bleak of a picture for the long term. I'm 32 and have loved it very recently. I have plenty of friends doing just fine in professions ranging from teaching, nypd, finance, to general contracting.

 

[Abe Vukota]

The politics on LI stink, but you all are crazy with this demise of LI as an attractive place to live stuff. Most of the desirable neighborhoods are in more demand than ever and in the macro there are signs of cycling back towards suburban desirability as millennials are starting families. The increased popularity and acceptability of working remote is also playing into this.

Also, the tax issue is relatively overstated when you look at what it would cost to buy in NYC vs. LI/NJ.

That's converting facts into a straw man you can attack. It's not undesirable; it's only desirable for a) old people and b) the people who can afford the taxes. Everything else you're saying is anecdotal unless you can provide evidence.

I'll offer some evidence that contradicts your point: one factor economists agree on correlating with economic growth is education spending. Nassau County schools have a tax cap in place that makes increasing spending difficult if not impossible. Why is this important? Because community expectations regarding technology are growing at a rate that isn't commensurate with spending. Our tax cap dictated a budget increase of 0% this year, and that's a result of tremendous pressure on local civic leaders. Google "Nassau County district tax cap" if you think this is anecdotal; tax freezes are common, but because the nitwits out here trip over themselves to be what they consider pro-business, they are primarily used as a cudgel with which to attack school districts. The county is now offering pilot status to businesses, which is one way to avoid taxing them beyond a certain threshold. That combined with tax caps and wage freezes will handicap Nassau County for years to come.

It seems like I have to qualify every post with this: I live here, and I like Long Island. But I make a lot of money working for the government, and I have union and pension protections most people can only dream of. If I were still working in the private sector, I would be really frustrated at the tax:service ratio here.

Tl;dr The top marginal tax rate needs to be restored to Eisenhower era levels before anything changes.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Go to a better college, get a better GPA in a desirable major, and get recruited for an attractive job. Aim high.

I suppose that is the goal.

As someone who just lived out there 20s, I'll predict it's too early to make that call. You never know what profession, job and or general life situation you may find yourself in when you are 18.

And I wish I was 18 again, on some levels anyway.

Hey, it could easily be too early to make that call. I suppose anything can happen in 4 years but LI is super expensive. It could also be that I have lived here all my life, and I want to move away from my hometown. My dad's side of the family have already moved off of LI (North Carolina) and my mom's side is going to move away within the next 4-6 years IMO.

I want to be a teacher (as of now) which will be kind of tough to find a job here as well. Now that I say all of this I will end up in a profession that is different from teaching, live on LI, and everybody in my family will live on LI lol.

 

[stranger34]

That's converting facts into a straw man you can attack. It's not undesirable; it's only desirable for a) old people and b) the people who can afford the taxes. Everything else you're saying is anecdotal unless you can provide evidence.

I'll offer some evidence that contradicts your point: one factor economists agree on correlating with economic growth is education spending. Nassau County schools have a tax cap in place that makes increasing spending difficult if not impossible. Why is this important? Because community expectations regarding technology are growing at a rate that isn't commensurate with spending. Our tax cap dictated a budget increase of 0% this year, and that's a result of tremendous pressure on local civic leaders. Google "Nassau County district tax cap" if you think this is anecdotal; tax freezes are common, but because the nitwits out here trip over themselves to be what they consider pro-business, they are primarily used as a cudgel with which to attack school districts. The county is now offering pilot status to businesses, which is one way to avoid taxing them beyond a certain threshold. That combined with tax caps and wage freezes will handicap Nassau County for years to come.

It seems like I have to qualify every post with this: I live here, and I like Long Island. But I make a lot of money working for the government, and I have union and pension protections most people can only dream of. If I were still working in the private sector, I would be really frustrated at the tax:service ratio here.

Tl;dr The top marginal tax rate needs to be restored to Eisenhower era levels before anything changes.

Look at the home prices, size and taxes in NYC and then compare them to Nassau and Suffolk and do some math on how long it would take for the higher taxes to catch up to the extra spend on initially buying the house. That's all.

My point isn't that LI is cheap, it's that the suburbs are in many ways more affordable and have less of a barrier to ownership than most decent homes in NYC. My whole family moved out of bayside in the 90's... big mistake. We can afford most above average neighborhoods on LI, but we could never afford to get back into Bayside. I have a house in Stewart Manor, I can afford it. I couldn't afford most of the areas in Queens that I'd want to live in.

 

[stranger34]

I suppose that is the goal.




Hey, it could easily be too early to make that call. I suppose anything can happen in 4 years but LI is super expensive. It could also be that I have lived here all my life, and I want to move away from my hometown. My dad's side of the family have already moved off of LI (North Carolina) and my mom's side is going to move away within the next 4-6 years IMO.

I want to be a teacher (as of now) which will be kind of tough to find a job here as well. Now that I say all of this I will end up in a profession that is different from teaching, live on LI, and everybody in my family will live on LI lol.

I think that you are having this conversation at all at age 18 is a pretty good sign things will work out just fine for you. I always thought I'd be a teacher and give tennis lessons during the summers off. In college and grad school I went on more of a professor track, and then just kind of fell into a job opportunity in an unrelated field that I couldn't pass up. Teaching these days on LI seems like it can be kind of fickle. I have friends that have ended up in great positions, while others have struggled. It also seems more political than it probably should be.

Getting back to some of the other points made against... I don't see undesirable neighborhoods on LI growing, quite the contrary. I've lived here since 98 and i can't think of any major areas that people used to want to live in that have turned, but I can think of some in the opposite direction.

To Abe's point, I thought about it some more and I do agree that the taxes need to come down... I just think LI does not price itself out vs other NYC metro areas. A big part of the problem is the financial behavior and economic realities of living in the area from college to age 30... Many young people are spending the near equivalent of a small mortgage (with higher rates) on student loans. Many also have the choice to either live at home or rent at prices that destroy any ability to save in their 20s. For too many, their 20s is a lost decade financially, with almost all of their money going to landlords, loans, and partying.

Interesting convo, maybe we should do an off topic thread about it.

 

[blitzkriegs]

On the one hand, one person is exclaiming they make a lot of money from the government and its benefits above the private sector, then the others are referencing higher tax rates... Hmm...

 

[blitzkriegs]

An excellent GPA and a worthwhile degree gets you a 60k job in NYC (50-55k outside of Manhattan). Even if you are successful enough to make 70 or 80k right out of college, paying anywhere from $1,250-2,000/month outside of Manhattan (anywhere else in the state), to live in a shoebox leaves with you next to nothing.

If you manage to save up for that 400-800k house in NY, you're buried in property taxes up to your eyeballs. Factoring in gasoline tax, state income tax, sales tax, expenses, kids.....


Needless to say, I love the dumb, gullible young saps that come to NY/NYC thinking it's the greatest city/place in the world. Makes it that much easier finding affordable living outside of this state.


You can't "make" it in NY anymore without help from someone else. These aren't the golden days of the 80s and 90s, when real estate was semi-affordable and there were so many jobs, every Tom, Dick, and Harry had a job just for breathing in college.

Not everyone is so concerned about where and how they live and sit around saving for a residence post-university, rather some are looking for work/life experiences only found in an international city, not in the 'burbs.

 

[JohnTonelliRises]

Not everyone is so concerned about where and how they live and sit around saving for a residence post-university, rather some are looking for work/life experiences only found in an international city, not in the 'burbs.

Every city outside of NYC, is not the 'burbs, the boonies, or Deliverance.

 

[stranger34]

Every city outside of NYC, is not the 'burbs, the boonies, or Deliverance.

HAHA this! So many people come here from out of town on the premise that it is the center of the universe or something... They also tend to think they are more NY than the people who grew up in the area after they have lived in Manhattan for like 2-3 years. I find it all very tedious. I will say this, if you are looking to build career momentum in the Financial Services industry, there still is probably no better place to start and then take the skills and career momentum to another region.

I never did the apartment in NYC thing, I'm sure it's fun and it's nice having a short commute, but I would get way too claustrophobic.

 

[Bones45]

HAHA this! So many people come here from out of town on the premise that it is the center of the universe or something... They also tend to think they are more NY than the people who grew up in the area after they have lived in Manhattan for like 2-3 years. I find it all very tedious. I will say this, if you are looking to build career momentum in the Financial Services industry, there still is probably no better place to start and then take the skills and career momentum to another region.

I never did the apartment in NYC thing, I'm sure it's fun and it's nice having a short commute, but I would get way too claustrophobic.

And you'd turn into one of those toolbags who brings their laptop to Starbucks, gets a $5 coffee and sits there for 3 hrs...

 

[stranger34]

And you'd turn into one of those toolbags who brings their laptop to Starbucks, gets a $5 coffee and sits there for 3 hrs...

Exactly!

 

[MJF]

And you'd turn into one of those toolbags who brings their laptop to Starbucks, gets a $5 coffee and sits there for 3 hrs...

WOOHOO!!!

$7 mochacino and free wifi.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Being from LI, the Novelty of NYC wears off pretty quick when you've been there hundreds if not a thousand times.

I'll never forget this girl I dated here in California who never worked a day in her life , took Dads money to Williamsburg, lived there for 3 years and swore she was heart of the city. Even just visiting a few months ago I felt that Manhattan was very stale in many ways.

I also found those LI kids who identified as city kids hilarious as if being from LI was like being from Mobile or Decatur.