Nassau Coliseum Discussion

[enigmatic]

also, why would barclays do this to appease the LI fans? wouldnt you cannibalize LI STH's?

if i lived on LI, being able to goto 6 games at the coliseum per year would likely stop me from buying a package at BC....

 

[blitzkriegs]

It was all PR folks, that's it. The NHL made no commitment to it and the NHL probably didn't care that he made those statements since the NHL can always say 'it was discussed, but never made a commitment nor approved.' End of PR story. Gullible LIers..

The isles franchise is so unique and special they have two arenas...

 

[BMOK33]

It's as easy as going to Barclay's website to see arena calendar of booked events.
http://www.barclayscenter.com/events-tickets/event-calendar

Nets rarely played Sat last year at home.

It seems they never do, I checked their schedule from 2 and 3 years ago when they were in Brooklyn and they average only 2-3 home Saturday games. My feeling is someone either wants to keep those nights open for an unknown reason or they thought Isles fans would prefer not to do Saturday games.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

 

[Fist of Gillies]

Anyone who is a Barclay's season ticket holder wants no part of losing preseason games or home games. 40 percent of the season tickets in 2011 already came from inside NYC.

Can you imagine the Giants and Jets leaving NJ to go play 2 home games or preseason back in real Yankee Stadium or Shea back in late 70's or late 80's for Jets?

Weird fact. The Jets actually played one or two preseason games at the meadowlands in the late 70s when playing at Shea. Of course, the Jets didn't charge season ticket holders for preaseason back then, but a weird side-effect of playing football at a baseball stadium.

 

[edott]

As far as your comment about where the STHs came from in 2011. I heard Charles Wang state that to Mike Francessa but I never believed him. The Islanders never released the demographics of their STHs so I just chalked it up to Wang trying to make his case for moving the team.

He said it (totally unscripted) three days before the referendum vote on 7/27/2011, the same day Jay Jacobs wanted PSL's on Coliseum at a time Wang was begging fans to vote yes on every media outlet daily and on television in Manhattan 2-3 times a week at 7am asking people to vote yes.

Hint-He did not agree to the deal in May 2011 and run around daily for months begging for a yes vote to move the team.

To this day he's still trying to stay there between Cantiague and now Northwell. Nassau extorted him last week to still give Cantiague a million dollars to get his LH project money still in escrow and made him commit to Islanders practices and events for 10 years to get back the rest. (less 600k) The NIMBY crowd would not even let him construct a lockeroom or teams offices with money beyond buildings footprint.

 

[MJF]

It was all PR folks, that's it. The NHL made no commitment to it and the NHL probably didn't care that he made those statements since the NHL can always say 'it was discussed, but never made a commitment nor approved.' End of PR story. Gullible LIers..

The isles franchise is so unique and special they have two arenas...

You don't like Islanders fans, do you?

 

[MJF]

He said it (totally unscripted) three days before the referendum vote on 7/27/2011, the same day Jay Jacobs wanted PSL's on Coliseum at a time Wang was begging fans to vote yes on every media outlet daily and on television in Manhattan 2-3 times a week at 7am asking people to vote yes.

Hint-He did not agree to the deal in May 2011 and run around daily for months begging for a yes vote to move the team.

To this day he's still trying to stay there between Cantiague and now Northwell. Nassau extorted him last week to still give Cantiague to get his LH project money still in escrow and made him commit to Islanders practices and events for 10 years and use some of that money for renovations. (but no expansion to footprint)

Again, I heard him on Francessa's show. I believe Wang already knew the referendum was not being well received and was greasing the skids for a move to Brooklyn.

 

[blitzkriegs]

You don't like Islanders fans, do you?

No, I think there's a lot of fandom clouding reality and failing to recognize it is a PR stunt. I posted how the NHL would handle it and three posts after that Jay posts a GB statement pretty making saying as much.

Maybe FL should play 3 games a season at American Airlines Arena?

 

[edott]

Weird fact. The Jets actually played one or two preseason games at the meadowlands in the late 70s when playing at Shea. Of course, the Jets didn't charge season ticket holders for preaseason back then, but a weird side-effect of playing football at a baseball stadium.

No, it was a Giants home preseason game at a time when Shea was the Jets home if it was in the late 70's.
http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/new-york-giants/results/1977
9/4/77 to be exact.

 

[edott]

Again, I heard him on Francessa's show. I believe Wang already knew the referendum was not being well received and was greasing the skids for a move to Brooklyn.

Again, here are the comments:
https://soundcloud.com/nyifc/wang-attendance-2011

Dolan's Newsday was hammering negatives daily before giving out a very late tepid endorsement saying only process should continue and to vote yes and released polls it would not pass. Then Dolan bid for Coliseum in 2013.

And here is Wang's senior VP Michael Picker showing up unscheduled 2/14/14 (page 58 noted Picker was there and testified page 108 continued) saying nothing changed and Wang wants to keep team at Coliseum but made clear time is up because of time needed to build an arena.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...012-168?packet=true+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Documents don't lie.

 

[Bones45]

It was all PR folks, that's it. The NHL made no commitment to it and the NHL probably didn't care that he made those statements since the NHL can always say 'it was discussed, but never made a commitment nor approved.' End of PR story. Gullible LIers..

The isles franchise is so unique and special they have two arenas...

Silly comment.

If there is one thing that Isles fans should know by now is to expect the unexpected.

Anything can happen.

 

[lorwood]

I only skimmed through the last few pages but the real factor I have yet to see mentioned is who compensates Barclay's for the lost dates? Either they have to be willing to forfeit those games or the games at Nassau are going to be ultra premium games with very high ticket/parking and concession prices.

 

[Metnut]

No one is suggesting this is a done deal. We're speculating about something that, if it does end up happening, wouldn't be until 3-5 years from now. Even if it's unlikely to happen, saying that it definitely won't happen is premature at this point.

I'd assume there'd be a revenue sharing agreement with Barclays of some sort for the games. It's likely something that would be negotiated when the parties to the lease have the right to exercise the opt-outs that we keep hearing about. Also, like poster above said, I'd imagine that these would be premium games and the face value get-in price would be $70-80.

Lastly, very interesting about Barclays being dark on many Saturdays this year. It makes me think some Barclays folks made a mistake in guessing which games would have the most demand. That likely means more Saturday games next year which is a good thing for people like me who can barely control their drinking at games and have jobs to go to in the morning.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

No one is suggesting this is a done deal. We're speculating about something that, if it does end up happening, wouldn't be until 3-5 years from now. Even if it's unlikely to happen, saying that it definitely won't happen is premature at this point.

I'd assume there'd be a revenue sharing agreement with Barclays of some sort for the games. It's likely something that would be negotiated when the parties to the lease have the right to exercise the opt-outs that we keep hearing about. Also, like poster above said, I'd imagine that these would be premium games and the face value get-in price would be $70-80.

I don't see you getting over the suites revenue hump. I also am highly skeptical you'll get fans paying $1000 per seat to sit on the glass at Nassau Coliseum. That was a $92 seat (I believe) last season.

Never know though.

Lastly, very interesting about Barclays being dark on many Saturdays this year. It makes me think some Barclays folks made a mistake in guessing which games would have the most demand. That likely means more Saturday games next year which is a good thing for people like me who can barely control their drinking at games and have jobs to go to in the morning.

 

[MJF]

Again, here are the comments:
https://soundcloud.com/nyifc/wang-attendance-2011

I don't dispute that Wang made the comments about the makeup of his STHs on Francessa's show. I heard the entire segment in my car. Sat in a parking lot listening to it for 40 minutes before I went in to a doctor's appointment.

I found it hard to believe that 40% of the approximately 4,000 STHs in 2011 were from outside Long Island, and I'm one of the 40%. The Islanders never release the demographics of their STHs (no team does AFAIK) and I questioned the accuracy of Wang's statement. That is all.

 

[lorwood]

No one is suggesting this is a done deal. We're speculating about something that, if it does end up happening, wouldn't be until 3-5 years from now. Even if it's unlikely to happen, saying that it definitely won't happen is premature at this point.

I'd assume there'd be a revenue sharing agreement with Barclays of some sort for the games. It's likely something that would be negotiated when the parties to the lease have the right to exercise the opt-outs that we keep hearing about. Also, like poster above said, I'd imagine that these would be premium games and the face value get-in price would be $70-80.

Lastly, very interesting about Barclays being dark on many Saturdays this year. It makes me think some Barclays folks made a mistake in guessing which games would have the most demand. That likely means more Saturday games next year which is a good thing for people like me who can barely control their drinking at games and have jobs to go to in the morning.

The odd nature of the Islanders agreement with Barclay's makes playing any games outside of Barclay's a sticky proposition at best.

The Islanders get paid a flat fee from Barclay's to play there.= No risk

Barclay's makes it's revenue on ticket sales, concessions etc.= High risk

So if the Islanders wanted to play elsewhere they would have to "buy back" the games from Barclay's thereby taking on unnecessary risk. (which Barclay's may love if there investment is under performing)

But lets say the Islanders decide to do what no business in their right mind would do and take on this unnecessary risk.

To minimize this risk you would assume the Islanders would want to "buy back" premium and weekend games. Games that Barclay's would not want to dump as they bring the most ROI.

So forget about the NHL agreeing to games at Nassau, just trying to get Barclay's and the Islanders to agree could be impossible.

 

[edott]

I don't dispute that Wang made the comments about the makeup of his STHs on Francessa's show. I heard the entire segment in my car. Sat in a parking lot listening to it for 40 minutes before I went in to a doctor's appointment.

I found it hard to believe that 40% of the approximately 4,000 STHs in 2011 were from outside Long Island, and I'm one of the 40%. The Islanders never release the demographics of their STHs (no team does AFAIK) and I questioned the accuracy of Wang's statement. That is all.

Picker did not give out season ticket holder numbers in March 2011:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/isles-revamp-season-ticket-prices-1.2786631

If you go through those archives his comments in 2011 and 2012 are consistent. Bottom line what he said was entirely unscripted in 2011, off a fan calling from NJ and Picker went to legislature in 2012 and said nothing changed and the team wants to stay.

Now the bad news is if your season ticket base used to be around 7,000 and 8,000 now that's not good. Yormark's goal was 10,000 season tickets.

 

[Metnut]

Lorwood,

In most cases i'd agree with you but since Prokorkov owns both Barclays and Coliseum (I believe so anyway), these aren't normal circumstances. Since Barclays and (new) Nassau Coliseum are "related" Barclays might not mind "sharing" a small portion of the Islander games in order to give some juice to the smaller asset (and for the other reasons I posted about above).

Jay,

I don't think people are paying anything near $1K to sit near the glass, but a $75/$275 sort of ticket range would seem likely to me if there's only a few games in Nassau each year. How much are people paying to sit near the glass tonight at Barclays?

Regarding Suite revenue, I'd be interested to see how much suite revenue is made on a game-to-game basis, versus a full season basis. If most of the suites are unsold tonight but go for huge amounts for premium games, the net revenue in moving a few games to Nassau could work out. If most suites are sold for a full season at a set per game price, then losing 4/41 of the suite revenue would be a real hurdle to overcome.

 

[lorwood]

Lorwood,

In most cases i'd agree with you but since Prokorkov owns both Barclays and Coliseum (I believe so anyway), these aren't normal circumstances. Since Barclays and (new) Nassau Coliseum are "related" Barclays might not mind "sharing" a small portion of the Islander games in order to give some juice to the smaller asset (and for the other reasons I posted about above).

Jay,

I don't think people are paying anything near $1K to sit near the glass, but a $75/$275 sort of ticket range would seem likely to me if there's only a few games in Nassau each year. How much are people paying to sit near the glass tonight at Barclays?

Regarding Suite revenue, I'd be interested to see how much suite revenue is made on a game-to-game basis, versus a full season basis. If most of the suites are unsold tonight but go for huge amounts for premium games, the net revenue in moving a few games to Nassau could work out. If most suites are sold for a full season at a set per game price, then losing 4/41 of the suite revenue would be a real hurdle to overcome.

Nassau county owns the Coliseum. Ratner is the developer. Prokorkov is buying (or may have bought) a stake in the development rights

 

[edott]

I don't dispute that Wang made the comments about the makeup of his STHs on Francessa's show. I heard the entire segment in my car. Sat in a parking lot listening to it for 40 minutes before I went in to a doctor's appointment.

I found it hard to believe that 40% of the approximately 4,000 STHs in 2011 were from outside Long Island, and I'm one of the 40%. The Islanders never release the demographics of their STHs (no team does AFAIK) and I questioned the accuracy of Wang's statement. That is all.

If you go through those archives Wang's comments in 2011 and 2012 are consistent. Bottom line what he said was entirely unscripted in 2011, off a fan calling from NJ and Picker went to legislature and said nothing changed.

Now the bad news is if your season ticket base is only 7,000 in 2011 and 8,000 now that's not good.

 

[edott]

Nassau county owns the Coliseum. Ratner is the developer. Prokorkov is buying (or may have bought) a stake in the development rights

Ratner sold his stake down to 15 percent. Prokhorov went he bought Nets, Barclays entirely took 85 percent of Coliseum project.

Ratner switched Forrest City to a REIT in January (real estate investment trust) that does not permit operating or owning a stake in an arena.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Jay,

I don't think people are paying anything near $1K to sit near the glass, but a $75/$275 sort of ticket range would seem likely to me if there's only a few games in Nassau each year. How much are people paying to sit near the glass tonight at Barclays?

They are $1k right now.

Regarding Suite revenue, I'd be interested to see how much suite revenue is made on a game-to-game basis, versus a full season basis. If most of the suites are unsold tonight but go for huge amounts for premium games, the net revenue in moving a few games to Nassau could work out. If most suites are sold for a full season at a set per game price, then losing 4/41 of the suite revenue would be a real hurdle to overcome.

This is the case. The suites you see selling on stubhub are seats within the suite as sold by the group that purchased the suite.

 

[lorwood]

Ratner sold his stake down to 15 percent. Prokhorov went he bought Nets, Barclays entirely took 85 percent of Coliseum project.

Ratner switched Forrest City to a REIT in January (real estate investment trust) that does not permit operating or owning a stake in an arena.

I think the confusion comes from not understanding the difference between owning development rights and owning the building.

"Long Island Business News first reported the deal on Friday afternoon. NetsDaily confirmed the report. Prokhorov's ONEXIM Sports & Entertainment is likely to ultimately buy all of the the Coliseum --technically, the arena lease with the county. Nassau Events Center, the entity Prokhorov bought into, controls the 25-year lease with the county."

http://www.netsdaily.com/2015/10/30/9646034/mikhail-prokhorov-buying-control-of-nassau-coliseum

Nassau owns the Coliseum. Barclay's is the 25 year tenant that has to pay Nassau county.

But truth be told it makes no difference in this discussion as the Islanders are separately owned. And although, and I don't know for sure, I would expect that technically Barclay's the building, Barclay's the operations of, The NY Nets are all separate entities. As such there is a fiduciary responsibility to run each responsibly. And trying to split one revenue stream amongst some many entities usually is a recipe for disaster.

In fact the NHL, Barclay's, Nassau could all ask the Islanders to play some games in Nassau and, if the Islanders were smart, they would say "sure but it's going to cost you" The Islanders have their lease in place and have no responsibility to play anywhere other than Barclay's

 

[MJF]

If you go through those archives Wang's comments in 2011 and 2012 are consistent. Bottom line what he said was entirely unscripted in 2011, off a fan calling from NJ and Picker went to legislature and said nothing changed.

Now the bad news is if your season ticket base is only 7,000 in 2011 and 8,000 now that's not good.

It was under 5,000 in 2011. I've heard as low as 3,500.