Naslund and Forsberg

[SirSamofHouseBennett]

i'd say havlat plays a simliar game as naslund too. and sure, they all bring different element to a team, but are those elements enough to make up the 20-30 pts naslund will likely outscore them by? is a 39 year old yzerman with all the surgeries really better than a 30 year old naslund? or a o'neill that score 14 goals last yr better than naslund? its your opinion and thats fine, but its no wonder people dont take you seriously here.

Havlat: true, he does play a similar game, but you wont ever see Naslund take a chop to another player (ie .. Recchi and Messier). and sure i dont advocate silly actions like that, it shows a side to the player that is neccesary.

Yzerman: id prefer him on my team because he is a winner, a leader and someone who can rally the troops. Naslund is none of the above, although long term I can admit Naslund is more valuable.

ONeill: He had a down season. Ok he might be a stretch, but even if I give you these three above, there are still multiple players Id rather have then Naslund.

dr

 

[H/H]

points arent everything and yes i like each one of those guys more than Naslund.

dr

Yet you pick offense only guys like Hossa, Weight, Gaborik and Kovalchuk who still scores less points than Naslund Logic?

Yzerman: id prefer him on my team because he is a winner, a leader and someone who can rally the troops. Naslund is none of the above, although long term I can admit Naslund is more valuable.

Stuff like this just makes me laugh. How in the hell can a bunch of internet hockey nerds like us know who is a great leader and who isn't in hockey? Have any of you ever played with them? Been in th locker room with them?

 

[McDeepika]

lemiuex
sakic
kovulchuk
Heatly
Forsberg
Igilna
Pronger
Neidemeyr
Blake
Broduer
Luongo
Kipper
Chara

in no prticular order are better then naslund right now though naslund holds more value then some of thes player that puts naslund in the 12-15 range he is ovbiously top 15 but i wouldn't put him top 10 though he is close

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

lemiuex
sakic
kovulchuk
Heatly
Forsberg
Igilna
Pronger
Neidemeyr
Blake
Broduer
Luongo
Kipper
Chara

in no prticular order are better then naslund right now

Says who? You? Last time I checked Wayne Gretzky called Naslund the best in the NHL period. Also if memory serves correct Naslund won the Pearson only last year, no? Judging by the way you spelled Iginla and Kovalchuk, you probably dont know what that is - the Pearson means you're the best in the game according to your peers.

 

[Youreallygotme]

Today I can say with pride : "I never considered Naslund one of World's top 40 players, even when he was in the top 5 in NHL scoring."

For once, I was right

:lol :lol

 

[SirSamofHouseBennett]

Yet you pick offense only guys like Hossa, Weight, Gaborik and Kovalchuk who still scores less points than Naslund Logic? ?

well they bring other things to the ice in the case of Weight and in the case of Kovalchuk, Hossa and Gaborik are much more exciting. I find Naslund to be quite bland. pardon me.

Stuff like this just makes me laugh. How in the hell can a bunch of internet hockey nerds like us know who is a great leader and who isn't in hockey? Have any of you ever played with them? Been in th locker room with them?

well, this is a fair point. however, i think in the case of Yzerman its well documented his leadership value.

dr

 

[sunb]

.

in no order

1. Joe Sakic
2. Jarome Iginla
3. Brad Richards
4. Vincent Lecavalier
5. Ryan Smyth
6. Joe Thornton
7. Ilya Kovalchuk
8. Marian Hossa
9. Mike Peca
10. Brad Richards
11. Dany Heatley
12. Shane Doan
13. Patrick Marleau
14. Simon Gagne
15. Peter Forsberg
16. Bill Guerin
17. Mike Modano
18. Todd Bertuzzi
19. Steve Yzerman
20. Keith Primeau
21. Rob Blake
22. Adam Foote
23. Niklas Lidstrom
24. Chris Pronger
25. Ed Jovanovski
26. Robyn Regehr
27. Scott Neidermyer
28. Zdeno Chara
29. Wade Redden
30. Doug Weight
31. Roberto Luongo
32. Jay Bouwmeester
33. Martin Brodeur
34. Rick Nash
35. Martin St Louis
36. Marian Gaborik
37. Keith Tkachuk
38. Jeff ONeill
39. Martin Havlat
40. Mattias Ohlund

well, there is 40 players Id take ahead of Naslund. Not all are better scorers or as skilled, I admit (and some are goalies). However, id rather have each one of them over Naslund.

there wouldnt be 40 forwards thought that I select ahead of Markus.

DR

Naslund's intangibles are in his exemplification of leadership through consistency. That is far more valuable than the fact that Bill Guerin and Shane Doan can hit. You can't value one form of intangible while ignoring Naslund's.

That is why this is probably the dumbest list I've ever seen compiled at HF.

 

[sunb]

well they bring other things to the ice in the case of Weight and in the case of Kovalchuk, Hossa and Gaborik are much more exciting. I find Naslund to be quite bland. pardon me.






well, this is a fair point. however, i think in the case of Yzerman its well documented his leadership value.

dr

Because they "are much more exciting" so you can conclude they are better than Naslund?

I guess Pavel Bure is much better than Joe Sakic then.

-

You contradict yourself again and show your anti-Naslund bias with the Yzerman comment. Sure Yzerman's got leadership but Naslund has scoring and leadership. For your younger players, you ignore the fact that they lack leadership but allow scoring to be the criterion while for older players you ignore the fact that they lack scoring but make leadership the criterion.

This is like saying Jason Chimera and Michael Rupp are better than Peter Forsberg since Rupp is bigger than Forsberg and Chimera is faster than Forsberg.

 

[myrocketsgotcracked]

Havlat: true, he does play a similar game, but you wont ever see Naslund take a chop to another player (ie .. Recchi and Messier). and sure i dont advocate silly actions like that, it shows a side to the player that is neccesary.

Yzerman: id prefer him on my team because he is a winner, a leader and someone who can rally the troops. Naslund is none of the above, although long term I can admit Naslund is more valuable.

ONeill: He had a down season. Ok he might be a stretch, but even if I give you these three above, there are still multiple players Id rather have then Naslund.

dr

havlat: him taking a chop to another player (to recchi's head if i remember correctly) shows a side that is neccesary. what side is that? boy you must love bertuzzi then.
yzerman: yes he was (and still is) a winner, but can he help you win on the ice? how far did he "lead" his wings the last 2 years in the playoff? as bad as a leader you think naslund is, his canucks (with a lower payroll) went just as far as the wings (2nd round) the last 2 years.

you value kovalchuk, hossa, and gaborik higher because they are more exciting !?!? it would've been so much better if you say they are younger and have potential to do better. saying they are better because they are more exciting just doesnt make you sound too smart there.

 

[H/H]

well, this is a fair point. however, i think in the case of Yzerman its well documented his leadership value.

Bah, pre-'97 people everywhere were talking so much crap about Yzerman's leadership skills, then when he finally won a cup in '97 the tides turned and every journalist everywhere found their column of the day writing poetically about "the great leader Yzerman". Let's face it none of us have a clue about it.

well they bring other things to the ice in the case of Weight and in the case of Kovalchuk, Hossa and Gaborik are much more exciting. I find Naslund to be quite bland. pardon me.

Now you're just getting EXTREMELY silly. A player is better even though because he's more "exciting" :lol That's just pathetic. I guess in your world Maxim Afinogenov is the best player in the world.

 

[SirSamofHouseBennett]

Bah, pre-'97 people everywhere were talking so much crap about Yzerman's leadership skills, then when he finally won a cup in '97 the tides turned and every journalist everywhere found their column of the day writing poetically about "the great leader Yzerman". Let's face it none of us have a clue about it.

Now you're just getting EXTREMELY silly. A player is better even though because he's more "exciting" :lol That's just pathetic. I guess in your world Maxim Afinogenov is the best player in the world.

well, those guys back up their "exciting" play with numbers too (unlike Max). hey, if you like Naslund more than those players, thats good on ya. Id have no problem if the Canucks traded Naslund for Havlat, Hossa or god forbid Kovalchuk.

 

[H/H]

Neither Havlat or Hossa has near the numbers that Näslund has, and neither of the two players bring much else to the ice. So they're better because they're more "exciting"?

What you're saying is that style ranks over substance. It just doesn't add up.

 

[McDeepika]

Says who? You? Last time I checked Wayne Gretzky called Naslund the best in the NHL period. Also if memory serves correct Naslund won the Pearson only last year, no? Judging by the way you spelled Iginla and Kovalchuk, you probably dont know what that is - the Pearson means you're the best in the game according to your peers.

so ur telling me that u think nazzy is better then all those players beacsue of one award he got 2 years ago lemieux would have easily won that had he not got injured. Do we agree that gretzky's opinion means something?

 

[SirSamofHouseBennett]

Neither Havlat or Hossa has near the numbers that Näslund has, and neither of the two players bring much else to the ice. So they're better because they're more "exciting"?

What you're saying is that style ranks over substance. It just doesn't add up.

hossa and havlat bring more to the game then just scoring. hossa plays a power forward game and havlat will take your head off if you catch him at the wrong time. and both play a much better defensive game then Naslund.

naslund pretty much has tea and & biscuits waiting for the opposition.

dr

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

ah ... dont quit your day job son.

dr

You said you would take Gagne over Naslund. Thats some sort of drug speaking. No other explaination.

 

[kenabnrmal]

Naslund's intangibles are in his exemplification of leadership through consistency. That is far more valuable than the fact that Bill Guerin and Shane Doan can hit. You can't value one form of intangible while ignoring Naslund's.

That is why this is probably the dumbest list I've ever seen compiled at HF.

Off-topic, but I'll point out that Doan has a hell of a lot more intangibles than simply being able to hit. His leadership skills and character (I support the guy who suggested that who of us could possibly say that someone's a good or bad leader without having been in "the room" with the guys, but I'm going off of what everyone connected to the Jets/Yotes organization have said about the guy) combine with his effectiveness at both ends of the ice AND his physical play to make him truely one of the more valuable guys in the league.

 

[myrocketsgotcracked]

Off-topic, but I'll point out that Doan has a hell of a lot more intangibles than simply being able to hit. His leadership skills and character (I support the guy who suggested that who of us could possibly say that someone's a good or bad leader without having been in "the room" with the guys, but I'm going off of what everyone connected to the Jets/Yotes organization have said about the guy) combine with his effectiveness at both ends of the ice AND his physical play to make him truely one of the more valuable guys in the league.

watching some of the games between 'nucks and yotes and some WC games, i'd say doan have even more than that. he have a great shot, good speed, versitile, and can make room for his linemates. he is very very valuable. but i will still take naslund over him because aside from being able to score, naslund also have lots of intangibles.

 

[myrocketsgotcracked]

hossa and havlat bring more to the game then just scoring. hossa plays a power forward game and havlat will take your head off if you catch him at the wrong time. and both play a much better defensive game then Naslund.

naslund pretty much has tea and & biscuits waiting for the opposition.

dr

i still dont get how havlat "will take your head off" makes him a better player then naslund?
and naslund isnt that bad defensively. sure, he'll never will the selke trophy, but you make him out to be invisible in his own zone. he can be effective at times, he can cost his team sometime, but overall i'd say hes about average.

 

[dumpnchase]

The current day you say? Who outscored who this season? Hmmmm.... Sakic

Naslund still has a small PPG edge over Sakic.
1.076 (Naslund) vs. 1.074 (Sakic)

 

[kenabnrmal]

watching some of the games between 'nucks and yotes and some WC games, i'd say doan have even more than that. he have a great shot, good speed, versitile, and can make room for his linemates. he is very very valuable. but i will still take naslund over him because aside from being able to score, naslund also have lots of intangibles.

Yeah it all depends on the sort of player you need in the lineup. I think its awful far--fetched to say that there are 40 players in the league that you'd rather have than Nas. He simply scores too much, is too good a guy in the room, to overlook.

 

[myrocketsgotcracked]

Yeah it all depends on the sort of player you need in the lineup. I think its awful far--fetched to say that there are 40 players in the league that you'd rather have than Nas. He simply scores too much, is too good a guy in the room, to overlook.

every team have different needs, just because a team like Ottawa (for example) will prefer doan over naslund, doesnt mean doan is better then naslund.
i think to find out how many players are actually better then naslund, ask yourself this question: if you build a team for 1 cup run next season, regardless of salary, who would you pick ahead of naslund? wont be o'neill, regher, or yzerman, among others listed.