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Naslund and Forsberg

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monster_bertuzzi said:
Well then you're admitting that Naslund has just as much raw ability and skill as anyone alive if a point-per game against defensive exhausted teams such as Minny is 'Pitiful'.
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He always had a lot of raw ability and skill. Even when struggling in Pittsburgh.

As for Näslund in the playoffs. I wouldn't call him a clutch player. I wouldn't call him a guy that takes the team on his back and carries them. But it's not like he is horrible or anything. I think he never will be 100% comfortable being the guy everyone expects to do it. When he has Bertuzzi there is someone that can shoulder the burden and he performs a bit better.
 
T@T said:
personly i can only pick 39 of those players listed...take a guess who i WOULDN'T take over Nazzy! :D
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I guess you wouldn't take both #3 and #10 :dunno:
 
monster_bertuzzi said:
Well then you're admitting that Naslund has just as much raw ability and skill as anyone alive if a point-per game against defensive exhausted teams such as Minny is 'Pitiful'.
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I never said he doesn't have world class ability, etc. I simply said that he did not have a good playoff run, and we both know it. He was average in 03, and he had no excuse to be average. On the other hand, Joe Sakic is never average in the playoffs......he excels there. This is the only point I am making. I like Naslund, don't get me wrong, but if it comes down to choosing who is the better forward...I take Sakic everytime due to his leadership abilities (which IMO are significantly better), clutch performances, and almost identical abilities.
 
DementedReality said:
.

in no order

1. Joe Sakic
2. Jarome Iginla
3. Brad Richards
4. Vincent Lecavalier
5. Ryan Smyth
6. Joe Thornton
7. Ilya Kovalchuk
8. Marian Hossa
9. Mike Peca
10. Brad Richards
11. Dany Heatley
12. Shane Doan
13. Patrick Marleau
14. Simon Gagne
15. Peter Forsberg
16. Bill Guerin
17. Mike Modano
18. Todd Bertuzzi
19. Steve Yzerman
20. Keith Primeau
21. Rob Blake
22. Adam Foote
23. Niklas Lidstrom
24. Chris Pronger
25. Ed Jovanovski
26. Robyn Regehr
27. Scott Neidermyer
28. Zdeno Chara
29. Wade Redden
30. Doug Weight
31. Roberto Luongo
32. Jay Bouwmeester
33. Martin Brodeur
34. Rick Nash
35. Martin St Louis
36. Marian Gaborik
37. Keith Tkachuk
38. Jeff ONeill
39. Martin Havlat
40. Mattias Ohlund

well, there is 40 players Id take ahead of Naslund. Not all are better scorers or as skilled, I admit (and some are goalies). However, id rather have each one of them over Naslund.

there wouldnt be 40 forwards thought that I select ahead of Markus.

DR
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wow, you would seriously take ALL those guys ahead of naslund? the same naslund who score the most points in the last 3 seasons? the same naslund who lead the lead in points many times over the last 2 years? the same naslund who was voted as the best player in the nhl by the players a couple seasons ago? granted, naslund had a god-awful WC, but c'mon!! be serious. regehr? guerin? they are playing well in the WC, but try offering them up in a trade for naslund in the nhl. o'neill? tkachuk? ok whatever dude.
 
Enoch said:
1g 6a and a -4 against the Wild (4g 3a -2 against the Blues). He did almost nothing in the last 3 games against the Wild, and stats do not tell the whole story. It was not a secret that Naslund and Bertuzzi had a pitiful playoff performance in 03, as well as in 02. In fact, it was one of the main knocks against them....great regular season...poor post-season. There were several games (4) where he was held pointless, and in game 7 when his team needed him most.....he was non-existent, and the Nucks folded. I'm not arguing how good of a player Naslund is, but in terms of sheer playoff performance, Sakic owns him....Sakic owns just about every player in that respect to be blunt.
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one thing about his +/- is that naslund scored most of his points on the PP. yes, he wasnt very good defensively that playoff, but i think his +/- is somewhat misleading, and to use that to say he have a pitiful playoff is wrong, just as wrong as saying malik had a all-star season because of his +35 (or something like that)
 
jtuzzi21 said:
this is not for all-time.

My opinion

top forwards in the game

1. Forsberg
2. Iginla
3. Naslund
4. Kovalchuk
5. Sakic
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1- Iginla
2- Sakic
3- Kovalchuk
4- Hossa
5- St. Louis

then Hejduk, Naslund, Lecavalier... (on last season's points per game average alone, i would put Forsberg at the top of the list, but he's so banged up these days and seems to lack the inspirations and drive...clearly his best chunks are behind him).
 
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DementedReality said:
.

in no order

1. Joe Sakic
2. Jarome Iginla
3. Brad Richards
4. Vincent Lecavalier
5. Ryan Smyth
6. Joe Thornton
7. Ilya Kovalchuk
8. Marian Hossa
9. Mike Peca
10. Brad Richards
11. Dany Heatley
12. Shane Doan
13. Patrick Marleau
14. Simon Gagne
15. Peter Forsberg
16. Bill Guerin
17. Mike Modano
18. Todd Bertuzzi
19. Steve Yzerman
20. Keith Primeau
21. Rob Blake
22. Adam Foote
23. Niklas Lidstrom
24. Chris Pronger
25. Ed Jovanovski
26. Robyn Regehr
27. Scott Neidermyer
28. Zdeno Chara
29. Wade Redden
30. Doug Weight
31. Roberto Luongo
32. Jay Bouwmeester
33. Martin Brodeur
34. Rick Nash
35. Martin St Louis
36. Marian Gaborik
37. Keith Tkachuk
38. Jeff ONeill
39. Martin Havlat
40. Mattias Ohlund

well, there is 40 players Id take ahead of Naslund. Not all are better scorers or as skilled, I admit (and some are goalies). However, id rather have each one of them over Naslund.

there wouldnt be 40 forwards thought that I select ahead of Markus.

DR
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This should win post of the year.
You can guess the category.
 
SuperKarateMonkey said:
one thing about his +/- is that naslund scored most of his points on the PP. yes, he wasnt very good defensively that playoff, but i think his +/- is somewhat misleading, and to use that to say he have a pitiful playoff is wrong, just as wrong as saying malik had a all-star season because of his +35 (or something like that)
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Naslund never has been good defensively, coming out of the gate this season, he was adaquete in his own end, but lets not ever imply that he has Modano-like two-way skills. He simply doesn't, and usually thats fine. In the playoffs, when he should have been dominating offensively he was not, and this is why his -6 stat is more effective. Its surprising to note that he was a -4 against the Wild....who had an enormously weak offense, which suggests to me that the top line for the Canucks was turning the puck over way too much. As for the remark about his performance being pitiful in the playoffs....maybe I am being too harsh, but at the time I distinctly recal disgust from a LOT of Nuck fans as well. Naslund simply didn't play up to his ability in any way shape or form....you recall it was the year he put up 49 goals and finished second in scoring with over 100 points....Going into the playoffs, it was supposed to be Naslund/Bertuzzi domination. Instead, Bertuzzi sat in the penalty box, and Naslund couldn't lead his team to victory. In that regard, he did have a pitiful playoff. Looking back on his career, 2003 was likely his peak year...the one year he had the health, as well as ability on the ice, to take his team all the way....and he failed to so. Granted it was a team effort and Cloutier wasn't all that sharp....I still think Naslund was unimpressive in the playoffs in terms of how he can play and in regards to other elite playoff performers, such as Sakic.
 
DementedReality said:
points arent everything and yes i like each one of those guys more than Naslund.

dr
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but i hope that goals, assists and points count as something ! some of the players in your list didnt even score half as many points as naslund, and im not talking about Dman or goalies either.
 
avalanche_country said:
any GM would take sakic over naslund if they had to pick !! Naslund is good but he is not nearly as much of a a stud and or as respected as Sakic.....
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He's 5 years younger, however. I guarantee you some GM's would take Naslund over Sakic.
 
Since I can remember Naslund and Forberg have never played that good in the international games, compared to how they play in the nhl.
 
jtuzzi21 said:
This should win post of the year.
You can guess the category.
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Right on!! Robyn Regher??? Jeff O'neill??? You gotta be kidding me!
 
(lone)Yashinfan#79 said:

1- Iginla
2- Sakic
3- Kovalchuk
4- Hossa
5- St. Louis

then Hejduk, Naslund, Lecavalier... (on last season's points per game average alone, i would put Forsberg at the top of the list, but he's so banged up these days and seems to lack the inspirations and drive...clearly his best chunks are behind him).
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I can still see Forsberg leading the league in points next season even if he's a little banged up.

My top 5:

Forsberg
Iginla
Kovalchuk
Sakic
 
smoothskater said:
I can still see Forsberg leading the league in points next season even if he's a little banged up.

My top 5:

Forsberg
Iginla
Kovalchuk
Sakic
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Add Kovalev to that list and im not being biased :) .
 
smoothskater said:
Right on!! Robyn Regher??? Jeff O'neill??? You gotta be kidding me!
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Simon Gagne :joker:, Ryan Smyth, Mike Peca, Steve Yzerman, Marian Gaborik, Doug Weight, Martin Havlat, Bill Guerin, Patrick Marleau, Shane Doan...

He truly does live in a Demented reality..
 
monster_bertuzzi said:
He's 5 years younger, however. I guarantee you some GM's would take Naslund over Sakic.
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Maybe some, but I bet 30 GM's would rather have Sakic in the playoffs.
 
monster_bertuzzi said:
Simon Gagne :joker:, Ryan Smyth, Mike Peca, Steve Yzerman, Marian Gaborik, Doug Weight, Martin Havlat, Bill Guerin, Patrick Marleau, Shane Doan...

He truly does live in a Demented reality..
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why wouldnt you take any of those players ? its a matter of personal opinion. other than Gaborik, those guys play a different type of game than Naslund, if you didnt notice.

Naslund will score more points than most of them, woopee.
DR
 
monster_bertuzzi said:
He's 5 years younger, however. I guarantee you some GM's would take Naslund over Sakic.
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I thought Naslund had talked about retiring back to Sweden, or at least going home to play, once his contract is up with the Nucks (He has what, a year + a team option left)? That could hurt his chances of being picked as well...
 
DementedReality said:
why wouldnt you take any of those players ? its a matter of personal opinion. other than Gaborik, those guys play a different type of game than Naslund, if you didnt notice.

Naslund will score more points than most of them, woopee.
DR
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i'd say havlat plays a simliar game as naslund too. and sure, they all bring different element to a team, but are those elements enough to make up the 20-30 pts naslund will likely outscore them by? is a 39 year old yzerman with all the surgeries really better than a 30 year old naslund? or a o'neill that score 14 goals last yr better than naslund? its your opinion and thats fine, but its no wonder people dont take you seriously here.
 
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