Nashville Predators Talk - 2024/2025 Season

[herzausstein]

It's been one of those quick 14 year long (and running) tank and rebuild around that surefire awesome pick paths to epic glory.

There really is some balance that has to be taken in rebuilding. Most of the champs over the past 15 or so seasons have built a core around players they absolutely had to suck to get. FLA - Barkov/Ekblad, Avs - McK/Makar, TBL- Stamkos/Hedmen, penguins - malkin/crosby .... etc...

Knights really being the exception but they made really bold moves to push their timeline up and have made several savvy trades. Panthers have made some real nice trades/acquisitions too reinhart/bennett/tkachuk.

I think STL is the only team that didnt have to tank to get their 1C. They just had to ship a boatload to Buffalo (key parts going to buffalo being Tage Thompson and 2019 1st).

We got lots of nice complimentary pieces and upcoming depth but we dont have a cornerstone at center to build around. Until we draft one or pay out the nose for one, we are gonna be stuck in no mans land.

 

[ShagDaddy]

There really is some balance that has to be taken in rebuilding. Most of the champs over the past 15 or so seasons have built a core around players they absolutely had to suck to get. FLA - Barkov/Ekblad, Avs - McK/Makar, TBL- Stamkos/Hedmen, penguins - malkin/crosby .... etc...

Knights really being the exception but they made really bold moves to push their timeline up and have made several savvy trades. Panthers have made some real nice trades/acquisitions too reinhart/bennett/tkachuk.

I think STL is the only team that didnt have to tank to get their 1C. They just had to ship a boatload to Buffalo (key parts going to buffalo being Tage Thompson and 2019 1st).

We got lots of nice complimentary pieces and upcoming depth but we dont have a cornerstone at center to build around. Until we draft one or pay out the nose for one, we are gonna be stuck in no mans land.

Now would be the time to pay out the nose for one. They have a lot of draft capital and some decent prospect pieces. I’d be fine with it if they could get a 22-25 year old soon to be 1C that would be the cornerstone of the franchise for the next 10 or so years.

 

[Armourboy]

Most of the them that have failed is because they either got in a hurry and signed big named UFA's too soon or when the time came they didn't bring them in at all or brought in the wrong ones.

The trick is you gotta balance young and Vet and you can't settle because you just end up being short.

I guess in Buffalo's case they actually haven't done anything to get those guys that are a fit.

 

[glenngineer]

Now would be the time to pay out the nose for one. They have a lot of draft capital and some decent prospect pieces. I’d be fine with it if they could get a 22-25 year old soon to be 1C that would be the cornerstone of the franchise for the next 10 or so years.

You're pretty much a 1C or you're not. Very few players grow into a 1C. I'm racking my brain trying to think if anyone has grown into a 1C. You have the exceptions of teams having 2 1C's like Pittsburgh and TB has had. At best, you're getting a low level 1C like we did with Johansen.

 

[ShagDaddy]

You're pretty much a 1C or you're not. Very few players grow into a 1C. I'm racking my brain trying to think if anyone has grown into a 1C. You have the exceptions of teams having 2 1C's like Pittsburgh and TB has had. At best, you're getting a low level 1C like we did with Johansen.

I was thinking more on the lines of running them as a 2C behind one of the veterans at 1C for a while just to give them a more protected role then sliding them in the 1C spot after the veteran is moved on from or contract ends. No idea if cozens is capable of that but players dealt from Buffalo seem to go on and meet their potential once they leave their so maybe he can do the same.

 

[herzausstein]

Most of the them that have failed is because they either got in a hurry and signed big named UFA's too soon or when the time came they didn't bring them in at all or brought in the wrong ones.

The trick is you gotta balance young and Vet and you can't settle because you just end up being short.

I guess in Buffalo's case they actually haven't done anything to get those guys that are a fit.

Buffalo has never solved their goaltending issues. Ottawa went out and Ullmark, NJD went out and got Markstrom... both still have defensive deficiencies but the rise in goaltender quality has helped cover for some of that making them better overall teams. Buffalo decided to continue with UPL hoping that his anomalous season last year was more reality and growth than it is. Doesnt help that their defense is basically all gas no brakes either and dahlin is injured.

 

[ILikeItILoveIt]

View attachment 945984

Ah, the fate of the two teams in the 1st round of the 2017 Playoffs.

 

[ILikeItILoveIt]

Any top-five Center pick we take has to first prove he can produce with Cole Smith on his wing. You cannot graduate from the fourth line until you turn Cole into an elite scorer.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Brunette would just put the kid at wing.

 

[glenngineer]

I was thinking more on the lines of running them as a 2C behind one of the veterans at 1C for a while just to give them a more protected role then sliding them in the 1C spot after the veteran is moved on from or contract ends. No idea if cozens is capable of that but players dealt from Buffalo seem to go on and meet their potential once they leave their so maybe he can do the same.

I understand this premise and it does have some merit. Eichel was a true number 1 which is why he succeeded once he left Buffalo. Middlestadt is a solid 2C in Colorado. I don't know if Cozens is a number 1 and probably slots in better as a 2C. You add him now and draft a 1C, then you're set down the middle. You also have to remember, you probably want to reserve a slot or 2 for Svechkov and Surin.

Honestly, I don't know that we need to add a guy like Cozens. Say we land a 1C this draft. Couple that with Svechkov at 2C and Surin comes along a year after, that could be a good group of C's.

I don't know, I'm not sold on selling off picks or prospects unless we know the player can step in and have some sort of impact.

 

[ShagDaddy]

I understand this premise and it does have some merit. Eichel was a true number 1 which is why he succeeded once he left Buffalo. Middlestadt is a solid 2C in Colorado. I don't know if Cozens is a number 1 and probably slots in better as a 2C. You add him now and draft a 1C, then you're set down the middle. You also have to remember, you probably want to reserve a slot or 2 for Svechkov and Surin.

Honestly, I don't know that we need to add a guy like Cozens. Say we land a 1C this draft. Couple that with Svechkov at 2C and Surin comes along a year after, that could be a good group of C's.

I don't know, I'm not sold on selling off picks or prospects unless we know the player can step in and have some sort of impact.

The picks this year outside of the Predators 1st is not going to get a player anywhere close to Cozens. If the organization can get cozens for a package that includes any pick or multiple picks from this draft, I’m ok with it.

Cozens has better potential to be a 1C than Svechkov or Surin. Of course if that turns out to not be the case and Svechkov or Surin turn out to better centers than Cozens, that’s a good problem to have. I’d rather the organization try to figure out what to do with Three top 6 centers than try to figure out how to make two top lines with 3 middle/bottom 6 centers. Just my thoughts on it.

 

[glenngineer]

The picks this year outside of the Predators 1st is not going to get a player anywhere close to Cozens. If the organization can get cozens for a package that includes any pick or multiple picks from this draft, I’m ok with it.

Cozens has better potential to be a 1C than Svechkov or Surin. Of course if that turns out to not be the case and Svechkov or Surin turn out to better centers than Cozens, that’s a good problem to have. I’d rather the organization try to figure out what to do with Three top 6 centers than try to figure out how to make two top lines with 3 middle/bottom 6 centers. Just my thoughts on it.

Fair enough. Didn't fully understand where you were coming from. If all four of our top 1st, Cozens, Svechkov and Surin are all top 6 centers, with one of them being a sure fire 1C, then that's when you start making deals and filling out the rest of your roster and turning into a power house for 8-10 years, especially if Molendyk and Gibson pan out to be a top pair during that same time period.

 

[Scoresberg]

FWIW, Surin doesn’t play center even in the Russian Junior League.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

We went from scratching the bottom of the barrel to find Centers to having too many already in this theoretical situation?

Price is everything, but we should never overlook a center option. If Trotz is overlooking one, then he's far more lost than any of us think.

 

[ShagDaddy]

We went from scratching the bottom of the barrel to find Centers to having too many already in this theoretical situation?

Price is everything, but we should never overlook a center option. If Trotz is overlooking one, then he's far more lost than any of us think.

I don’t think our future center depth is as bleak as scratching the bottom of the barrel. Svechkov has good potential. Edstrom has good potential as well. I have no idea what Surin is going to turn in to. My point was adding Cozens to the roster gives the organization a better shot at have multiple good/decent top 6 centers as opposed to hoping the one or two we have now work out.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

I don’t think our future center depth is as bleak as scratching the bottom of the barrel. Svechkov has good potential. Edstrom has good potential as well. I have no idea what Surin is going to turn in to. My point was adding Cozens to the roster gives the organization a better shot at have multiple good/decent top 6 centers as opposed to hoping the one or two we have now work out.

I don't think we have many/if any top 6 in the pipeline at the forward position currently aside from Surin who I think is probably a winger. I think there is an outside chance one of our guys is a by definition top 6, but on the low end and not a contender type. I think it's likely we get a few positionally average type players to stick in the top 6, mostly likely 2nd line types.

I agree we should be adding Centers was my point.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I don't think it's impossible to get #2C center options when you're picking at the end of the 1st. That Vegas pick is in the range of where guys like Edstrom and Ritchie were picked, or Bystedt, Beck, and sometimes even a #1C like Suzuki, Thomas, Aho, Wyatt Johnston has wandered past near there in recent drafts. We don't pick those guys. If we did, maybe we wouldn't develop them well. But they're out there, and we could always try to change things on that front?

If Cozens isn't better than Svehkov or Parssinen, then I'm not sure I want to give up my lottery ticket, even if it's not a great ticket in the Vegas pick, for somebody we maybe already have on hand?

 

[ShagDaddy]

I don't think it's impossible to get #2C center options when you're picking at the end of the 1st. That Vegas pick is in the range of where guys like Edstrom and Ritchie were picked, or Bystedt, Beck, and sometimes even a #1C like Suzuki, Thomas, Aho, Wyatt Johnston has wandered past near there in recent drafts. We don't pick those guys. If we did, maybe we wouldn't develop them well. But they're out there, and we could always try to change things on that front?

If Cozens isn't better than Svehkov or Parssinen, then I'm not sure I want to give up my lottery ticket, even if it's not a great ticket in the Vegas pick, for somebody we maybe already have on hand?

In this draft?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

In this draft?

In every draft.

 

[ShagDaddy]

In every draft.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Armourboy]

I don't think it's impossible to get #2C center options when you're picking at the end of the 1st. That Vegas pick is in the range of where guys like Edstrom and Ritchie were picked, or Bystedt, Beck, and sometimes even a #1C like Suzuki, Thomas, Aho, Wyatt Johnston has wandered past near there in recent drafts. We don't pick those guys. If we did, maybe we wouldn't develop them well. But they're out there, and we could always try to change things on that front?

If Cozens isn't better than Svehkov or Parssinen, then I'm not sure I want to give up my lottery ticket, even if it's not a great ticket in the Vegas pick, for somebody we maybe already have on hand?

Frankly I'm not worried about Parssinen anyways, I think his time is basically done here, its just a matter of when, I've already written him off in the long term plans.

Svechkov might turn out better, but that's a big gamble, one that requires the coach to play him first.

Frankly I think fans around here as a whole overvalue bottom 1st round picks too much. Yeah you might get lucky, but when you look at the overall statistics I'm not even sure you see a 10% chance at the level you are talking.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Frankly I'm not worried about Parssinen anyways, I think his time is basically done here, its just a matter of when, I've already written him off in the long term plans.

Svechkov might turn out better, but that's a big gamble, one that requires the coach to play him first.

Frankly I think fans around here as a whole overvalue bottom 1st round picks too much. Yeah you might get lucky, but when you look at the overall statistics I'm not even sure you see a 10% chance at the level you are talking.

I dunno, I've listed most of the centers picked in that range the last few years, and almost all of them are at least "interesting". Some will eventually bust. But it's definitely a better rate of return than 10%. More like 50%.

But that's for NHL teams in general. If it was us, it'd be 0%. So there is that argument to be made. I just don't like accepting that 0% is all we should ever be capable of, given the rest of the league does a lot better.