Nashville Predators Talk - 2024/2025 Season II

[Porter Stoutheart]

I don't see it either. He's still expecting to tweak around the edges and be competitive next year. With Bruno.

Yup. He'll try to find another Bunting, another Jankowski, replace Schenn on RD with some other slow veteran, and think he has hit upon the winning formula.

At least it's supposed to be a better draft next year?

 

[Scoresberg]

I think Saros COULD be the one he at least thinks of. He has NOT looked good this year.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I think Saros COULD be the one he at least thinks of. He has NOT looked good this year.

Saros is honestly the least of the team's problems but giving goalies huge deals is not smart. Especially if the team is bad. You have to worry about wear and tear on the goalie's body.

It's just not a smart investment. Which is why we should've traded Saros in the summer and kept Lankinen and Askarov as 1A 1B going into this year.

You have to move Saros. He's too good to help us tank and too bit of an investment long term.

 

[herzausstein]

I think Saros COULD be the one he at least thinks of. He has NOT looked good this year.

Wonder if boston would be interested in a swayman and saros swap. Swayman makes more but the contract is shorter. Both had pretty bad years.

 

[predhead1]

After early season optimism, it's extraordinarily frustrating to see our PP regress to the "5 players passing the puck around the perimeter" strategy. This ineptitude is directly attributable to poor coaching.

 

[herzausstein]

After early season optimism, it's extraordinarily frustrating to see our PP regress to the "5 players passing the puck around the perimeter" strategy. This ineptitude is directly attributable to poor coaching.

Our entire offensive strategy seems to be to fire parameter muffins and hope for a deflection.

 

[PredsV82]

I don't see it either. He's still expecting to tweak around the edges and be competitive next year. With Bruno.

And this is why Trotz should be fired along with Bruno. St Louis is a textbook example (twice now in 6 years!!) of how a coaching change can turn a season around without blowing up what is otherwise a decent roster.

 

[Kat Predator]

And this is why Trotz should be fired along with Bruno. St Louis is a textbook example (twice now in 6 years!!) of how a coaching change can turn a season around without blowing up what is otherwise a decent roster.

Preach it whilst we all sing!

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Preach it whilst we all sing!

Kumbaya, my dudes.

 

[Olderfan]

I could be wrong but I believe I heard something like this when he was talking on TV last night about coaching Ovechkin.
Ovie wanted to win a Cup.
Trotz told him they would get him the puck someway but that a good backcheck and/or blocked shot from him on D would help the cause also.
Now that’s a true statement but when talking about the superstar who just became the greatest goal scorer in the long history of the NHL Trotz brought up improving his D.
This D first, “trusted player” stuff is driving this team in the ground.
I just wonder how much of the failure of the Preds “summer time super stars” is based on the Trotz Offensive Strategy as
implemented in Nashville?
Maybe the coach is merely doing what he is told.
How many forwards has that philosophy ruined on Trotz teams?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I could be wrong but I believe I heard something like this when he was talking on TV last night about coaching Ovechkin.
Ovie wanted to win a Cup.
Trotz told him they would get him the puck someway but that a good backcheck and/or blocked shot from him on D would help the cause also.
Now that’s a true statement but when talking about the superstar who just became the greatest goal scorer in the long history of the NHL Trotz brought up improving his D.
This D first, “trusted player” stuff is driving this team in the ground.
I just wonder how much of the failure of the Preds “summer time super stars” is based on the Trotz Offensive Strategy as
implemented in Nashville?
Maybe the coach is merely doing what he is told.
How many forwards has that philosophy ruined on Trotz teams?

Nobody wins Cup anymore without team commitment to defense. Trotz has been shaky as GM, but wanting guys to backcheck isn’t the problem.

 

[GoldOnGold]

Nobody wins Cup anymore without team commitment to defense. Trotz has been shaky as GM, but wanting guys to backcheck isn’t the problem.

That is true, but you also need to be able to score - and we went from 10th best in goals per game last year to 32nd this year. (And our goals against per game went from 13th best to 25th).

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

That is true, but you also need to be able to score - and we went from 10th best in goals per game last year to 32nd this year. (And our goals against per game went from 13th best to 25th).

Lots of problems. And Bruno shoulda been fired months ago. But Preds probably weren’t as good as results last year and probably aren’t as bad as they look this season; much of that variance is likely luck.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Lots of problems. And Bruno dhouida been fired months ago. But Preds probably weren’t as good as results last year and probably aren’t as bad as they look this season; much of that variance is likely luck.

I am still thinking it's coaching more than "luck". Teams get as much good luck as bad luck situationally, and I don't think it bunches up for season-long stretches.

You can say, "but but it's the same coach as last year!". Yet I think there's sort of a 2nd law of thermodynamics thing going on with hockey teams at times too, a new coach imposes his order at first, except gradually over time entropy wins out. The descent to the natural state of disorder just happens more quickly with bad/incompetent coaches, which is mostly what we're seeing here. It's not really luck.


And I definitely believe that coaching means more to team success than most of the player personnel does. I think it's why Trotz is the wrong choice as a GM, because for all that he might believe in how important the coach is, he is completely blind to how important the right coach is. He thinks the coach fundamentally can't be wrong, that inevitably if you get the right group of players who will listen and play the way the coach wants them to play, then that's how you fix poor performance. We know he has trouble with ratios and fractions right? He hasn't learned what 20:1 means yet either.

 

[herzausstein]

Lots of problems. And Bruno dhouida been fired months ago. But Preds probably weren’t as good as results last year and probably aren’t as bad as they look this season; much of that variance is likely luck.

I'm not sure about not being as bad as we were this year. The actual core of this team is extremely old. We don't have an actual 1C (RoR should be 2C at best).

When almost every main contributor on the team is nearing or past mid 30s, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

[Kat Predator]

I'd add that this was an underperforming team early in the season. That was when the lineup was superglued in place in spite of production. But as the season went along, we actively became a much worse team. Depth was gutted. Young veterans were thrown away for rookies (who weren't allowed to play much), waiver wire fodder, and minor leaguers. Our older core got another year older, took more damage. We arguably have the worst defensive group in the league. We are the worst team in the league in terms of scoring. We're being dragged across the finish line.

So, yeah, it's not "luck". We really do suck. And much of the hopium was squandered along the way.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I'd add that this was an underperforming team early in the season. That was when the lineup was superglued in place in spite of production. But as the season went along, we actively became a much worse team. Depth was gutted. Young veterans were thrown away for rookies (who weren't allowed to play much), waiver wire fodder, and minor leaguers. Our older core got another year older, took more damage. We arguably have the worst defensive group in the league. We are the worst team in the league in terms of scoring. We're being dragged across the finish line.

So, yeah, it's not "luck". We really do suck. And much of the hopium was squandered along the way.

AND.... I don't think there's much of an escape hatch available.

Trotz pushed his chips onto one square, spun the wheel, and... lost it all.

Now we suck, he's not going to be able to sign any good UFAs. He made so many bad trades that opposing GMs are going to be sharks in the water looking to plunder him every time. Our players are older, getting worse, and still signed to term. We don't have blue-chip prospects coming in. And he's doubling and tripling down on an objectively horrible head coach.

So I think fans need to brace themselves for "The Dark Ages". The Preds may very well be basement dwellers for several seasons to come. It's not the worst time ever for this to happen, since the franchise/entertainment conglomerate has hopefully passed the stage where it matters much if the on-ice product is good or bad... the team is a much more secure market now. So even 5 or 6 years of living in the basement isn't going to be the same franchise-risking disaster scenario as it would have been in the past.

But I honestly think we are entering a new phase of no longer being in the "mushy middle"... we're in the "congealed bottom". And it's going to last a while.

(The irony is that this wasn't intentional... management actually somehow thought they were taking us to a higher level of contention... )

 

[herzausstein]

Yeh... we through an underperforming younger Novak away for an older more expensive underperforming Bunting. Bunting of course actually gets to play with the top 6 talent as well while that was mostly denied of Novak. Meanwhile, Buntings production rates in nashville are worse than what Novaks were.

Dont get me wrong. I dont think Novak was this great irreplaceable player but the trade itself is just nonsense. We got older, more expensive, and not even better... on top of that we threw in Schenn (a 2nd and a 4th).

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Yeh... we through an underperforming younger Novak away for an older more expensive underperforming Bunting. Bunting of course actually gets to play with the top 6 talent as well while that was mostly denied of Novak. Meanwhile, Buntings production rates in nashville are worse than what Novaks were.

Dont get me wrong. I dont think Novak was this great irreplaceable player but the trade itself is just nonsense. We got older, more expensive, and not even better... on top of that we threw in Schenn (a 2nd and a 4th).

And in this case, Bunting isn't even a bad NHL player. I actually sort of sneaky like him. But the thing is, our management is utterly oblivious to the fact that we already had a player in hand who could produce as much/more, but got less opportunity. And that's just repeated ad infinitem on down the roster where other younger players have been sidelined for even worse AAAA/tweener types of players. Bunting/Novak is almost the least objectionable of our multitudinous transgressions in this area.

 

[Kat Predator]

I think of Bunting more as a Nyquist swap/downgrade since Novak was mostly used as a bag of warm water to keep parts of the bench from getting too cold.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I think of Bunting more as a Nyquist swap/downgrade since Novak was mostly used as a bag of warm water to keep parts of the bench from getting too cold.

I might even like Bunting more than Nyquist. Mind you, Bunting got 20:28 icetime last game, which should NEVER happen, no matter what other lineup issues your team has.

I guess if you made that swap, good. But then you threw away Novak and Schenn for a 2026 2nd and 4th, while Schenn himself was objectively traded shortly after that for a 2026 2nd + 2027 4th. So the end sum is Novak given away for nothing. That's not a win.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I am still thinking it's coaching more than "luck". Teams get as much good luck as bad luck situationally, and I don't think it bunches up for season-long stretches.

You can say, "but but it's the same coach as last year!". Yet I think there's sort of a 2nd law of thermodynamics thing going on with hockey teams at times too, a new coach imposes his order at first, except gradually over time entropy wins out. The descent to the natural state of disorder just happens more quickly with bad/incompetent coaches, which is mostly what we're seeing here. It's not really luck.


And I definitely believe that coaching means more to team success than most of the player personnel does. I think it's why Trotz is the wrong choice as a GM, because for all that he might believe in how important the coach is, he is completely blind to how important the right coach is. He thinks the coach fundamentally can't be wrong, that inevitably if you get the right group of players who will listen and play the way the coach wants them to play, then that's how you fix poor performance. We know he has trouble with ratios and fractions right? He hasn't learned what 20:1 means yet either.

I think last year was largely fluke too. No reason to expect everyone of our old guys to have career years again, but the roster that started year wasn’t 3rd worst in league.

 

[herzausstein]

Even if you look at it as Nyquist, Novak, and L. Schenn for Bunting, a 2026 2nd, and a 2026 4th the entire thing is underwhelming. Luke schenn got a 2026 2nd and a 2027 4th by himself for Pittsburgh. That leaves Nyquist and Novak for the value of Bunting. Both of our former players had better or equal 5v5 production this season on a team that has the least 5v5 goals for in the league. Seems like a really short sighted move. Maybe bunting will get us a 3rd next deadline

 

[wmupreds]

I might even like Bunting more than Nyquist. Mind you, Bunting got 20:28 icetime last game, which should NEVER happen, no matter what other lineup issues your team has.

I guess if you made that swap, good. But then you threw away Novak and Schenn for a 2026 2nd and 4th, while Schenn himself was objectively traded shortly after that for a 2026 2nd + 2027 4th. So the end sum is Novak given away for nothing. That's not a win.

Nyquist was a better player than Bunting but Gus is cooked now

 

[Kat Predator]

Nyquist was a better player than Bunting but Gus is cooked now

Right. Gus was a legit 1st line forward. He produced last year. But the wheels came off (not just him though).

Bunting is a 2nd or 3rd line guy IMHO. Middle six or lower six depending on how stacked your roster is. He's not bad, but his production is closer to the Tomasino range and not something to write home about.

Trotz has a hockey woody for him, so that's going to be good for him while he's here.