Maybe I am dumb, but I still think this is a playoff team this year if we started with the right coach/system. I have no way to ever prove that, but the sum of the parts is absolutely far less than it should be.
Nashville Predators Talk - 2024/2025 Season II
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Scoresberg
Perpetual Mediocrity
Yeah, I'll come right out and admit that I thought all up until like 2-3 weeks ago that this team could turn this around and start pushing for the playoffs.
I don't recall the exact moment I knew they weren't going to turn it around anymore this year, but I do believe I fast turn-around and playing for a playoff spot is POSSIBLE for this team next year. I'm just not at all convinced the guy in charge is the right man to lead that successful turn-around..
im still not on the shoot Trotz into the Sun phase yet. I liked the off season moves. The only move that I view as a complete and utter Charlie Foxtrot is Fabbro. While I’m not fond of the transactions with some of the younger players, those moves aren’t damaging to the team long term. Those players were depth players and probably not going to be considered core players here or for any team they go to in the future. That being said, if he doesn’t fire Brunette immediately after the season and bring in a new coach to get ready for the draft, I’ll aim the cannon myself and supply the powder and fuse from my personal stock.
Armourboy
Hey! We suck!
I've been saying since about Thanksgiving that it was over but even I think the team itself isn't that far off from being a playoff team. Our problem is the coaching staff and how these players are all being used. Ultimately I think the reason Trotz does let Brunette go is because in the back of his mind he is looking at this roster and thinking to himself that he would have no issue making the playoffs with it. I think he also sees that nothing has really gotten better all season.
I also don't think he is stupid. He can see what tickets are selling for every night and how many empty seats there are and know if he doesn't do something the owners are going to be pretty unhappy with that pretty quickly.
glenngineer
Registered User
People are confusing elite offensive defenseman with elite puck-moving defenseman.
In most cases, teams that win a Cup have an elite defenseman that is solid defensively, scores over 50 points and is smart and tactical with how they handle the puck. They should be paired with a solid stay at home type that compliments their style of play that can also bring a bit of a physical presence.
Teams that also win Cups seem to have a three-headed monster of sorts on D, where one of them is always on the ice. It leads to better outcomes. In some cases, you have a four-headed monster, much like we did in our Cup run. Those are a little harder to come by but the Kings had one with Doughty, Martinez, Nordstrom and Muzzin. The Hawks had that for a year when Campbell was still there but they adjusted to the three-headed variety.
Vegas, while they were very good their first year, lacked a true number 1 and when they got to the Finals, it really showed. Once they landed some elite players up front and Pietrangelo on D did they finally take that final leap. Tampa had the three-headed variety with Hedman, McD, and Shergachev with some good depth with Cernak and a few others.
It comes down to balance and guys that can eat a lot of minutes at a high level, which is why elite players at F and D are so freaking valuable. We can sit here and bash on Josi all we want but he's the least of our worries on D, slots 2-6 are not where they need to be, no matter how much we like guys like Wilsby and Stastney.
In most cases, teams that win a Cup have an elite defenseman that is solid defensively, scores over 50 points and is smart and tactical with how they handle the puck. They should be paired with a solid stay at home type that compliments their style of play that can also bring a bit of a physical presence.
Teams that also win Cups seem to have a three-headed monster of sorts on D, where one of them is always on the ice. It leads to better outcomes. In some cases, you have a four-headed monster, much like we did in our Cup run. Those are a little harder to come by but the Kings had one with Doughty, Martinez, Nordstrom and Muzzin. The Hawks had that for a year when Campbell was still there but they adjusted to the three-headed variety.
Vegas, while they were very good their first year, lacked a true number 1 and when they got to the Finals, it really showed. Once they landed some elite players up front and Pietrangelo on D did they finally take that final leap. Tampa had the three-headed variety with Hedman, McD, and Shergachev with some good depth with Cernak and a few others.
It comes down to balance and guys that can eat a lot of minutes at a high level, which is why elite players at F and D are so freaking valuable. We can sit here and bash on Josi all we want but he's the least of our worries on D, slots 2-6 are not where they need to be, no matter how much we like guys like Wilsby and Stastney.
herzausstein
Registered User
Probably pressbox filler while Hartman is suspended. I imagine he will be back on waivers soon enough
Bringer of Jollity
Registered User
Josi was #3 on the finals team. The PP has never been good with him as the PP1 Dman. What has he done since then from a team standpoint?
What did Karlsson and Burnes do for SJ?
Roman Yoshi
#164303
I remember I said this during the free agent madness: if you are pushing all your chips in the middle (which Trotz did) to be competitive this year he better not miss or it would set the franchise back.
I was just so wrong about the window being wide open.
I'm just praying we somehow when the lottery or at least get to pick 3
I was just so wrong about the window being wide open.
I'm just praying we somehow when the lottery or at least get to pick 3
Armourboy
Hey! We suck!
I'm hoping it ends up being a blessing in disguise. Basically a way for us to get our rebuild without Trotz feeling like he did an actual rebuild.
glenngineer
Registered User
Fair enough to some degree. I remember a few years back where the Pittsburgh PP wasn't very good and they had Sid, Geno and Letang. The sum of the parts is more important than the parts themselves. With that said, we can blame Josi for his failings on the PP but isn't it on the coaches to put players in a place to succeed? I've advocated for Josi on the right faceoff dot as he's got a good enough one timer to do damage from there. Let Gus or March run the PP from the top of the umbrella.
As far as Josi being #3, PK and Ekholm were amazing on that run. Once again, having an undersized defenseman in Ellis pairing with Josi in the playoffs never panned out. He needed a big stay at home guy and we gave him Ellis. This falls into the, who did we pair him with and did we put him in a position to succeed.
In regard to Burns and Karlsson, just because you have some of the pieces to make a run, doesn't mean you have the rest of the puzzle. I never said if you had a three-headed monster on D you were winning a Cup, it's part of a successful recipe. Look at Toronto and their forwards over the last bunch of years, maybe the best group of 4 forwards in the NHL and without the rest of the puzzle, they flame out.
On the flip side of all of this, outside of a few players on this roster, this team hasn't had any playoff warriors in quite a while. I'd love to see what Josi would do when paired with a big physical defenseman. I'd also like to see him raise his game to another level. Maybe this is the problem with the construction of the roster, they play at or close to 100% of their ability during the year and they have no extra level to them when the playoffs hit.
We can sit and debate this until the fall but the makeup of the roster needs a massive overhaul. I think Trotz knows what the team needs, he just doesn't know how to go about getting the pieces.
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
Hartman suspended, Kaprizov on IR ... a body to keep the cogs moving until they get people back.
I believe that you have to wait for 30 days to put a claimed player back on waivers.
He was the motor that drove the Admirals' offense this season.
Porter Stoutheart
Seen Stamkos?
- Jun 14, 2017
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Hopefully Hinostroza will still be eligible for the playoffs when we reclaim him? AHL clear day is usually 1 week after the trade deadline? If Minnesota keeps him past that are they knocking an ace out of the Ads playoff lineup? 
I think my original comment was that "elite" offensive defenseman are over rated and not worth the trouble. Which means forcing non-elite defenseman to try and play like forwards isn’t going help and most likely will be a detriment.
This wasn't meant to be necessarily about bashing Josi but I guarantee if we sat down and broke down film I could show you how Josi consistently kills breakouts and transitions by demanding the puck be passed to him. I've never heard someone constantly yelling for the puck like he does. There was a sweet spot of time for him but that has passed.
One could argue this is a coaching issue with Josi and they'd have a valid arguement but that doesn't change the fact that most top point getting offensive defenseman don't move the needle for their teams.
This wasn't meant to be necessarily about bashing Josi but I guarantee if we sat down and broke down film I could show you how Josi consistently kills breakouts and transitions by demanding the puck be passed to him. I've never heard someone constantly yelling for the puck like he does. There was a sweet spot of time for him but that has passed.
One could argue this is a coaching issue with Josi and they'd have a valid arguement but that doesn't change the fact that most top point getting offensive defenseman don't move the needle for their teams.
DarrylshutzSydor
Registered User
I follow the Preds a bit, not my #1 team, but i like them, look at the +/- of the top six. It is dreadful, does Brunette teach defense? Anyway, good things on the horizon, Teddy Stiga is a STUD!
Porter Stoutheart
Seen Stamkos?
- Jun 14, 2017
- 16,621
- 13,489
Have you heard the saying: “The best defense is a good offense” ?
Guess what… our offense sucks…
Guess what… our offense sucks…
Kat Predator
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2019
- 5,089
- 5,996
Bringer of Jollity
Registered User
Would take a Doughty, Hedman, or Pietrangelo, with less offensive upside, but far superior defense, any day over a Karlsson or Josi. I dare say I might even take a prime Suter over them even from a roster construction standpoint (can get some cheaper PP specialist types and more money for an elite forward).
Kat Predator
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2019
- 5,089
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Burns was still playing very well when they brought Karlsson in. (IIRC, he was in the hunt for the Norris.)
Karlsson was a luxury piece, and then they threw a massive contract at him that blew up their entire cap structure. It was the move that precipitated the Sharks steady decline to where they are now.
As far as PP, both Burns and Karlsson suffered because they didn't know who to lean on and so they juggled them both as the PPQB. Neither one could find a rhythm.
And most of the time they overlapped in San Jose, Karlsson was playing on one leg and really didn't seem very interested in playing defense at all. With Martin Jones in net, taking defensive plays off was a recipe for quick defeat. It wasn't until the season before they traded Karlsson away that he became a scoring machine in San Jose, but the team was terrible. So it was basically a Karlsson shooting exhibition in a season long beat down.
I think we might be forgetting that prime Josi was actually good at defense, or at least average. Unfortunately now that his speed/skating are declining, he can't get back into the play like he used to. It doesn't seem like he's adjusted his game, and maybe he never will..
He was adequate for the most part. He took way too many penalties crosschecking along the boards and couldn't win board battles otherwise but in space his skating usually kept him in position to jump on pucks.
He'd adjust if the coach made him. Or at least in theory.
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