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That is such a misjudged comment.Top Shelf said:
The lack of NHL hockey last year allowed fans and media to focus in on other events they normally wouldn’t have thought twice about watching.
As an example, how many times has Kevin Allen traveled across to Europe to watch the World Championships? See normally, the hockey media is concentrating on the NHL playoffs, not some tournament that only really matters to European countries.
My guess is, had Allen paid attention to previous tournaments, he would have seen that World Championship success, doesn’t always translate into NHL glory (which is what he is doing). He would have also seen plenty of other players do better then Rick Nash did, and yet get no glory from the North American (especially the US) media.
Did Nash play well at the Championships? Yes.
Was he the best at the tournament? No.
Did the guy who centered him land MVP honours? Yes.
Has that player had significant offensive success with other players in different situations (i.e. Boston, San Jose & HC Davos)? Yes.
So, Nash played well, but not better then everyone else. And he also played with a guy who has a history of making his line mates better. Think for maybe a second, Rick Nash’s success had more to do with playing along side Joe Thornton, then his own individual talent?
And since we’re on this subject. A kid named Jonathan Cheechoo has been picking up points at an impressive rate since a player we’ve discussed has been added to his team. So again, I ask, should Cheechoo have been given a longer look (or a look at all for that matter) because of his torrid pace playing alongside Thornton, or have his numbers been an off spin on Thornton’s immense talent?
The more guys Thornton has chemistry and success with, the more it diminishes the only real point people have for including Rick Nash on Team Canada.
Dion Mustard said:
So how do you spin 9 goals, 3 asissts in the 11 games since he's been back from injury? its all Fedorov now right? ...or how bout his 41 goals as a 19 year old? That was all Thornton as well right? ...oooooh that's riiiight....Andrew Cassels was his center that year...and so was Mark Hartigan...and Svitov even saw some time with him...all elite playmaking centers...heck...even Cheechoo could score 41 with those powerhouses. right RIGHT?
You don't like RN and don't think he's deserves a spot..that's your opinion and I respect that...but enough with Rick Nash is nothing without Thornton talk....that limb your out on is gettin real flimsy.
As far as Allen..obviosly you don't respect a guy whose covered hockey for 20 years....not to worry as here is another recently written dose of Nash from Wigge of NHL.com. I'll be eagerly awaiting your misjudged spin of this one as well.
""There are a lot of young players in the league who want to be goal-scorers, but some don't want to pay the price. He'll do it. ... and what is so great about Rick Nash is he does is with a flair, with creativity for such a big man."
Make that man-child."
http://www.nhl.com/columns/wigge/nash010306.html
He was the best player in the World championship last year hands down. Before this tournament i thought he was just an opportunistic goal scorer with a great shot a la Ray Sheppard but i quickly noticed that this guy is a superstar. He can take control of a game with his size and great skating or he can make you look like a fool with some great moves. Sometimes he just looks like Jagr outhere.
Nash is officially a machine. I don't know how people can't see that. Every night I check the ticker, and sure enough, he's there with a goal. That one goal where he split the D....beauty
I know I've said this before, but Rick Nash needs to be on this team not only because he scores a ton, but also because of the kinds of goals he scores. The size, the speed, the strength, the hands. It's beautiful to watch. Only a few guys in the league (Jagr, Kovalchuk...) can just bust to the net and score like Nash does. It's that kind of skill that breaks games open at the international level.
If we go by his pace since coming back from injury, he's on track for 41 goals
. He's already second on his team in goals, and is the only "regular" player on the team who isn't a minus...
I have the biggest man-crush on Rick Nash
I know I've said this before, but Rick Nash needs to be on this team not only because he scores a ton, but also because of the kinds of goals he scores. The size, the speed, the strength, the hands. It's beautiful to watch. Only a few guys in the league (Jagr, Kovalchuk...) can just bust to the net and score like Nash does. It's that kind of skill that breaks games open at the international level.
If we go by his pace since coming back from injury, he's on track for 41 goals
. He's already second on his team in goals, and is the only "regular" player on the team who isn't a minus...I have the biggest man-crush on Rick Nash
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Is that you Doug MacLean?jacketracket said:
Seriously. Was 41 goals some record breaking number that no one has ever come close to reaching in the history of the game? Was 41 goals some number no one else was able to match last hockey season?
And if 41 goals is so great, where do the 56 total points he recorded stand?
Having listened to MacLean and Jackets fans continually use this one and only stat as a reason for Rick Nash’s success, it makes me believe that the intent of the Blue Jackets in the final few months of the season was to get Nash goals.
At the end of the day, the last time the NHL had a full season, Rick Nash only recorded points on 56 of his team’s goals. That in itself is hardly a stat worth bragging about for a team leader. But say instead of having so many goals, and so little assists, Nash’s numbers were more balanced. Say Nash scored 30 goals and had 26 assists. He still totals the same amount of points, and in accordance helps his team the same amount. Does he still get the same hype? Why?
The Richard Trophy is an individual award handed out. And in reality, it’s the most selfish award the NHL has. Winning the award, especially with the rest of the numbers Nash had, is hardly a judge of what a player has done for his team’s success.
Say Nash recorded one less goal last year. Or say Iginla or Kovalchuk scored one more. Nash doesn’t win an award. Do you still use his goal total as the one and only stat to prove his talent?
And furthermore, what good is it to score goals if those goals don’t equal wins for the team?
Top Shelf said:
I said it above, and I’ll say it again. Do you believe that Nash’s goal total had more to do with his talent, or the fact that maybe the Jacket’s game plan was to get Nash goals?
It’s a fair question.
Not once did I say Nash was “no where†with Thornton. What I said was Thornton has a history of making those around him much, much better. And that considering that fact, Nash’s excellent play at the World Championship round robin play may have had a lot to do with the guy playing centre, rather then Nash’s own individual talent. That is the point many of us are trying to make. It seems Nash has gotten credit for Thornton’s work. Whereas the same respect hasn’t been given to Glen Murray or Jonathan Cheechoo.
And since you like using stats so much. Here’s one for you. The last time the NHL was played, Cheechoo was second behind Nash in sophomore scoring with 47 points (a mere 9 off Nash’s total). It must also be pointed out that on a much better team, Cheechoo was given less PP time then Nash, and his coach was more concerned about winning games then getting individual stats. Of course now, playing along side Joe Thornton, Cheechoo is lighting it up. So, why is Nash so much better then Cheechoo?
Al Strachan has covered the NHL for years, and I don’t respect him (either do many others).
The fact that Wigge talks about the future face of the NHL without including three of the current point leaders (Eric Staal, Jason Speeza or Dany Heatley) and forgets to include that stud rookie defenceman in Calgary. It certainly makes me wonder how much hockey the guy actually watches.
But of course, it’s not like a reporter has ever written a “puff†piece, based solely on someone else’s opinion, in order to earn favour with an editor or a NHL GM (think maybe next time Wigge wants an inside scope, MacLean might give it to him?)
Of course, it’s not like a reporter has ever been wrong in his assessment of a players talent now is it? I’m sure if I wanted to (or better yet thought you would actually take it into account) I could find plenty of stories written about how good a reporter thought a player was going to be. Only to watch that player fail miserbly.
All as I, and I think many others, want is to see Nash prove us wrong in our assessment. Prove he can be a solid two way player. Prove he can make those around him better. Help his team climb out of second last in the NHL. Prove that his one half decent (take away his goal total and his numbers are pathetic) season was more then a fluke. And prove he can get it done when it counts the most.
It seems to me for years the media picks guys they give the benefit of the doubt to, while others are forced to prove themselves over and over again. Rick Nash, IMO, seems to be the former.
jcpenny said:
If that were true, shouldn’t he have won the MVP award? Or at least the top forward award?
Truth is, he didn’t win either. So how you can ay he was the “best player in the World championship last year hands down†is comical, and wrong.
Dion Mustard said:
Because Nash did it as a 19 year old, while Cheechoo was like 24?
Nash is so much better than Cheechoo because he can score at a league-leading pace by himself. Cheechoo is one of the top scorers in the league because of Thornton, as you say. Nash is one of the top scorers in the league without Joe Thornton, or Forsberg (Gagne), or Spezza (Heatley), etc.
Jagr and Kovalchuk are the only guys in the league I think are better goal scorers than Rick Nash. Although Ovechkin should be scary in a year or two
Nash rules, period. He fully deserves his place on Team Canada. Although I would have liked to see Savard play with him.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Nash is the real deal.
Assists are great but they don't occur unless someone else scores.
You can score without anyone on your team helping you out.
A playmaker without a goal scorer is useless. A goal scorer without a playmaker is less effective but still useful.
Assists are great but they don't occur unless someone else scores.
You can score without anyone on your team helping you out.
A playmaker without a goal scorer is useless. A goal scorer without a playmaker is less effective but still useful.
I am currently laughing my hindquarters off at some of these anti-Nash rants. Really, keep 'em coming. They have no credibility or basis in fact whatsoever, but they're great as comedy pieces.
We'll see how much of this drivel remains at the end of February.
We'll see how much of this drivel remains at the end of February.
"... one and only stat"?Dion Mustard said:
That argument might carry a bit of water, if Nash hadn't performed the way he did at the Worlds, or for Davos during the lockout.
There's no shame in simply admitting that you just don't like the guy.
Daniel Briere had two phenomenal World Championships in years when the tourney was being played at the same time as the NHL playoffs, therefore no one watched. Why isn’t he on Team Canada?jacketracket said:
Jay Bouwmeester was solid for Canada in three separate Championship tournaments while wearing the Red & White, how come he isn’t on the Olympic team?
Jason Williams was a super star in the Finnish Elite League last year. Does that mean his play against a lower level of talent should equal a spot on Team Canada?
Yet, you use those very same examples as play to include Nash on the team. Why does it work for Nash, and not the others?
I really don’t care either way about Rick Nash. I just think he needs to prove himself a little more before he’s given (not earned) all this praise.
arrbez said:
Hey, some players develop faster then others. Nash may have already peeked at his talent level (I peaked when I was 16), whereas Cheechoo took a few extra years. Look at Speeza or Staal.
Almost every player who comes into a situation that is different then what his peers did. Nash was drafted by a team desperate for help. That team is run by a first class moron. While the Sharks felt it best to allow Cheechoo to develop more at the Junior level, the Jackets needed help quickly. There is no way of knowing how each player would have turned out if their situations were reversed. So, you comment holds no weight.
We don’t actually know that yet. He did it once. And like I said, and have yet to hear a rebuttal, last’s season’s stats, IMO, were grossly inflated because the main game plan of the Jackets once they were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, was to get Nash goals. One listen to either MacLean or the minions who follow him, proves that.
Well, in a lesser role then what Nash had in Columbus (i.e. #1 PP unit and a game plan to suit his stats) Jonathan Cheechoo racked up 28 goals (a mere 13 off Nash’s total) last season. And oh, Joe Thornton was still in Boston then. Just imagine what he could do if his coach told all his teammates to do all the grunt work and let Cheechoo get all the glory.
And just to be clear, the last time the NHL was played; Nash was not one of the top scorers in the league. He wasn’t even in the Top 40. He was tied for the lead in the goal scoring department, but not the point scoring column. Huge, huge difference.
Funny thing is, I always wanted a hockey player on my team, and not just a goal scorer. Thank you from proving our point. Rick Nash is a one dimensional hockey player that while he may be able to score, he doesn’t do anything to help his team win. Maybe he’d be better suited playing golf or tennis.
NyQuil said:
Then you wouldn’t mind him actually proving it? (which is what many of us are waiting for).
Well, as the Rick Nash has proven, you maybe able to score goals without anyone passing it to you, but scoring goals doesn’t always equal wins. Doesn’t it seem doing what is best to help the team win is a more logical way to play the game, rather then just pad one player’s stat?
Actually, a great playmaker can make those around him so much better. A goal scorer doesn’t have the same effect. So, the reality is, a playmaker is more important to the team’s success, then just a goal scorer.
DJAnimosity said:
That’s your fault then. Every single “anti-Nash†post is filled with facts and credibility. Maybe instead of adding nothing to the thread, you could try and refute the claims that have been made against Nash.
The truth is, you and your ilk are the ones desperately trying to avoiding getting into an actual hockey discussion because you’d then have to admit the knocks against Nash are well founded.
And say he doesn’t play well. Say Canada loses again with Rick Nash on the team. Then will you say you were wrong, or will you talk about how great Nash was in the games that didn’t really mean anything? Because the truth is, Nash’s play in the medal round at the World Championship was hardly stuff legends are made of. Yet here we are, talking about how great he was. Never in my life have a seen a player get so much credit for not winning, then this guy. And never in my life have I seen so many people avoid the facts and issues to defend a guy that hasn’t won anything credible.
I didn't incluce Nash on the team --- the good folks selecting Team Canada did.Dion Mustard said:
BTW, Nash has picked up his 10th and 11th in the first period tonight (in his 15th game). The first came 10 seconds into the game ...
Funny how a team that went 5-18-0-1 is suddenly playing .500 hockey with the return of a player "who doesn't do anything to help his team win".
therealdeal
Registered User
- Apr 22, 2005
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Dion Mustard said:
Nash 12 points in 14 games, all of those just coming back from injury, and a goal and an assist already tonight.
And whats Columbus's record with Nash back now?
Nash has now played in 12 games coming off his injury and is only at about 80% according to DM.
In those 12 games Nash has 10 goals, 5 assists, and is a +2
In those 12 games the CBJ are 6-7.
In those 12 games the CBJ has scored 39 goals. 3.25 goals per game.
In the other 30 games this season, before Nash returned from injuries, the CBJ have scored 57 goals. 1.9 Goals per game.
In those 12 games Nash has contributed on almost 40% of the teams scoring.
But yet Nash doesn't make the CBJ a better team, doesn't make those who he plays with better? Please.
The best anyone can do is say he only scored 56 points in his last season. Yes, he did. And in doing so was the only teenager to ever score 40 goals in a season... and that was the old NHL. In that same NHL Eric Staal only had 31 points... but that doesnt get mentioned....
In those 12 games Nash has 10 goals, 5 assists, and is a +2
In those 12 games the CBJ are 6-7.
In those 12 games the CBJ has scored 39 goals. 3.25 goals per game.
In the other 30 games this season, before Nash returned from injuries, the CBJ have scored 57 goals. 1.9 Goals per game.
In those 12 games Nash has contributed on almost 40% of the teams scoring.
But yet Nash doesn't make the CBJ a better team, doesn't make those who he plays with better? Please.
The best anyone can do is say he only scored 56 points in his last season. Yes, he did. And in doing so was the only teenager to ever score 40 goals in a season... and that was the old NHL. In that same NHL Eric Staal only had 31 points... but that doesnt get mentioned....
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Dion Mustard said:
My argument holds no weight?
Did you just claim that Rick Nash has peaked at the ripe old age of 19, while Johnathan Cheechoo has yet to reach his potential at the age of 25? Does that make any sense? How many NHL players peak in their teens? If Rick Nash follows the same pattern that 99% of NHL players do, he will only improve from here.
So tell us, honestly, right now, for all to see:
Do you really believe Johnathan Cheechoo is a good enough player to have scored 41 goals with no help in the dead-puck era as a 19 year old? (I'm not asking would it have happened, because that's all hypothetical. I'm asking if you think Cheechoo is that good).
If you do, I would suggest that you are severely overrating Mr. Cheechoo, and every single person on the Sharks board will tell you the same.
Conversley, do you really think Rick Nash wouldn't be able to crack the Sharks lineup untill 2009 had he been drafted by them? You really believe he would still be in the AHL right now?
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Every single game, Rick Nash is proving you more and more wrong. He's now got 10 goals and 5 assists in 12 games since his injury, and many feel he's not even 100%.
Perhaps you don't like him, perhaps you feel a different player would be better suited to Team Canada. That's fine, we all have our opinions.
But dude, you'd need to be blind not to see how good this kid is. No offence to Johnathan Cheechoo, but he's not even in the same league as Rick Nash.
Buy the time his feets are healing more and more. The Blue Jackets are 5-2-1 in their last eight games. Nash scpred 12(7+5) points in last 6 games. And he's just becoming that machine he'd been a previous couple years.
Yes, he is not a team player, he can't pass and he has nothing to do with team's success. And obviously doesn't deserve a spot on the canadian roster.
Dion Mustard, isn't it time to eat a crow?
Yes, he is not a team player, he can't pass and he has nothing to do with team's success. And obviously doesn't deserve a spot on the canadian roster.
Dion Mustard, isn't it time to eat a crow?
CBJ 97 61 16
Registered User
Dion Mustard said:
That may not be a stat worth bragging about on most teams, but if you take the offense of the Blue Jackets into consideration, that's actually worth bragging about. Also, Nash had 57 points, he had 16 assists. Rick Nash was in on 32% of the Blue Jackets goals (57 of 177). Let's see how other player faired. Let's take umm....Jason Spezza. He was in on 20% of the Senators goals (55 of 262). How about Eric Staal? 31 points on 172 goals, for a whopping 18%. For kicks, let's throw Cheechoo in there. 47 points on 219 goals for 21%. So out of the players that started this arguement, Nash, Spezza, and Staal, Nash was in on a better percentage of his team's goals. It's just no one was scoring last year but Nash.
I can hear the comback now, they didn't get as much playing time as Nash. Well, let's look at this year. Staal has 54 points and the Hurricanes have scored 152 goals. That's 35%, pretty respectible. Now, Spezza. 48 points on 172 goals, 27% wow! Again, Cheechoo for laughs. 39 points on 128 goals, 30%. Wow, Cheechoo is a better playmaker than Spezza. Alright, now for the controversial man, Rick Nash. In the games he has played, the Jackets have scored a total of 39 goals. Nash has been in on 15 of them. That gives him a percentage of 38. Again, better than Staal, Spezza, and Cheechoo. So it seems that Nash was and is a playmaker who jus scores more goals than he sets up. You can't have a team full of playmakers and passers, the Blue Jackets know that. Rick Nash is the only legit goal scorer we have. If you have a team full of passers, than no one ever shoots, no one ever scores. You need finishers.
I have to say that the whole action on Zherdev's goal last night was just 
And that was nice assist by Nash.
4 beautiful passes before Z scored.
And that was nice assist by Nash.4 beautiful passes before Z scored.
Dion Mustard said:
Me and my "ilk" watch every Jackets game and know what we see, and it's that Nash is a world-class player. Something tells me you don't do the same.
Like I said, we'll wait till the end of February to re-visit this discussion and something tells me that you'll be nowhere to be found.
The biggest knock that you seem to have boils down to the fact that he plays on a crappy team, one so offensively-challenged that they averaged less than 2 GPG this season without Nash.Dion Mustard said:
Of course, with Nash in the line-up, that GPG figure jumps to 3.25, and the team plays .500 hockey ...
Again, nobody will think less of you for simply admitting that you just don't like the guy.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Seems like most of the Nash-bashers are bailing already, and he's only put up 10 goals/5 assists in 15 games. Imagine what might happen when he feels at 100%.
I hope someone bought Dion Mustard a new shovel for x-mas. That one he's currently using to dig that hole he finds himself stuck in must be getting worn out by now.
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