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NAHL 2017-2018 Thread

I know the Rebels website has their main camp listed as starting today at the IceWorks Skating Complex in Aston.
 
The Rebels today made the official announcement of their changes.

The Philadelphia Rebels will play at the Penn Ice Rink at the Class of 1923 Arena.
 
So the announcement was delayed about a month because the Rebels were working to ensure that certain repairs were made to the Penn arena before anything was official.
 
Two years ago (I can't find last year numbers) Aston was last in the NAHL in attendance averaging less than 400 people a game. I have no doubt they will have better numbers with this move.
 
Tomahawks & Generals kicked of the League's season in Attleboro on Wednesday night. A few more teams & their fans join the fun starting this weekend, before League-wide action shifts to Schwan starting Sept. 20th. My wife & I will be attending the Jr. Blues home opener on Saturday, to kick off our hockey road trip season. Thank you, NAHL, for giving us the opportunity for an early hockey fix.
 
Things are looking rough for Johnstown so far. They lost a lot of their scoring up front, but things just don't seem to be clicking overall.

The Philadelphia Rebels made their debut in the city tonight, but it doesn't seem to have fixed their attendance woes. Only 267 on hand to watch them hang another loss on Johnstown. Ouch.
 
Captain Crash said:
... The Philadelphia Rebels made their debut in the city tonight, but it doesn't seem to have fixed their attendance woes. Only 267 on hand to watch them hang another loss on Johnstown. Ouch.
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One (or even several) early season games does not determine the success of moving a team. It was arguably either a foolish or a gutsy move by the Rebels' ownership to relocate into the middle of a very crowded sports market. But I'd wait until they get through their first season @ 1923 Arena before I'd pronounce a winner in that argument.
 
JMCx4 said:
One (or even several) early season games does not determine the success of moving a team. It was arguably either a foolish or a gutsy move by the Rebels' ownership to relocate into the middle of a very crowded sports market. But I'd wait until they get through their first season @ 1923 Arena before I'd pronounce a winner in that argument.
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There is no winning in that market. The east coast is full of people that just do not want to watch juniors and there is a ton of pro hockey. The Rebels would be best served moving away from the Philly area into more rural PA where the people do not have so many choices for entertainment. That is where the NAHL has succeeded in the past.
 
JungleJON said:
WB-Scranton Knights to EHL?

Does this mean Wilkes-Barre Scranton is leaving the NAHL? They have an ELITE team listed as well.

EHL Announces Teams in Each Division
BOSTON, MA -- The Eastern Hockey League (EHL) is pleased to announce the 2017-18 divisional structure for the Premier Division and the Elite Division.

PREMIER DIVISION (16 TEAMS)

Boston Jr. Rangers (Tewksbury, MA)
Connecticut Oilers (Hamden, CT)
Connecticut RoughRiders (Norwalk, CT)
East Coast Wizards (Bedford, MA)
New England Wolves (Laconia, NH)
New Hampshire Avalanche (Hooksett, NH)
New York Applecore (Brewster, NY)
New York Bobcats (Kings Park, NY)
Philadelphia Jr. Flyers (West Chester, PA)
Philadelphia Little Flyers (Aston, PA)
Philadelphia Revolution (Warwick, PA)
Total Athletics Seahawks (Hyannis, MA)
Valley Jr. Warriors (Haverhill, MA)
Vermont Lumberjacks (Burlington, VT)
Walpole Express (Walpole, MA)
Wilkes/Barre Scranton Knights (Pittston, PA)
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Surely those Philadelphia teams can come up with better names than the Flyers, copying their NHL team.
 
JMCx4 said:
One (or even several) early season games does not determine the success of moving a team. It was arguably either a foolish or a gutsy move by the Rebels' ownership to relocate into the middle of a very crowded sports market. But I'd wait until they get through their first season @ 1923 Arena before I'd pronounce a winner in that argument.
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I totally agree. But home openers tend to be one of the better attended games each season. I'll certainly wait and see, and I really hope it works out at that venue, but the attendance was worth noting and it isn't promising.
 
kij said:
There is no winning in that market. The east coast is full of people that just do not want to watch juniors and there is a ton of pro hockey. The Rebels would be best served moving away from the Philly area into more rural PA where the people do not have so many choices for entertainment. That is where the NAHL has succeeded in the past.
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I don't know; the Phantoms were able to find success there next door to the Flyers. Obviously the NAHL is quite a drop from the AHL, but there is sort of a precedent of Philly being a good overall hockey market.

Now that said, I agree with you that smaller markets are likely the best bet for the NAHL, particularly in Pennsylvania. If the Rebels give up on Philly, I'd like to see them (or an expansion team) give it a go in York. They have a rink that might be sufficient.
 
The Tomahawks need to fire their coach or it will be a long season in the Flood City. Last year they were good only because they beat up on WBS and Northeast. Now they are way better than J-town. Spend some $$$ and get a decent coach.
 
Captain Crash said:
I don't know; the Phantoms were able to find success there next door to the Flyers. Obviously the NAHL is quite a drop from the AHL, but there is sort of a precedent of Philly being a good overall hockey market.

Now that said, I agree with you that smaller markets are likely the best bet for the NAHL, particularly in Pennsylvania. If the Rebels give up on Philly, I'd like to see them (or an expansion team) give it a go in York. They have a rink that might be sufficient.
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York City Ice Arena has a capacity of 1,000 people. NAHL league mandates require seating for 1,500. Also to dredge this back up, it is the rough costs that teams incur throughout the year. The league has that minimum seating requirement because they realize that for teams to be sustainable they need that many paying fans per game. I do not know of any other arenas in PA with that much seating other than where Aston was, Penn state arena, Johnstown, and Connellsville where the NAHL has failed already.

kij said:
It's the same thing the plagues half the league, attendance and sponsors do not pay the bills. A quick look at the Titans attendance figures game by game I'll give them a rough estimate of 400 a game. 28 home games once you remove the showcase. At the high end they charge $10/person. So 400*28*10=$112,000. I cannot find any information on sponsors so I will not include them in this. Let's say they hold 3 try out camps with 120 players paying $300 to attend. After paying ice fees they have about $100,000. Now you have about $212,000 in known revenue.

Now the titans have to fly 2 round trips (Alaska and Minnesota). Going with just a skeleton crew so to speak it would cost $22,000 (expedia search) for the round trip flights bringing just 20 players and 2 coaches by the cheapest flights I see. Now looking at hotels let's say they get decent deals and every hotel is $90/room/night. They need a hotel for roughly 23 nights and at least 8 rooms for players and coaches and another for the bus driver. 90*23*8=$18,630. Now buses are a little harder as they go by day and mileage. For argument's sake just say $2,000/day. They need to have a bus for 32 days (not including the week in Alaska with no games on weekdays). 32*2,000=$64,000. League fees in the NAHL come out to approximately $30,000 a year. Just there you have $134,630 in expenses. Head coaches make at the low end $30,000-$40,000 a year. Assistants get $15,000 a year at the low end and most teams have at least 2 (sometimes a 3rd as a goalie coach). Each player gets 6 sticks a year I believe. 25 players, 6 sticks each, $200/stick. 25*6*200=$30,000. All told~$224,630 in known expenses not including other gear, gym time, trainers, ice time, scouts, and post game meals.

***Disclaimer***
Numbers are rough estimates learned from personal experience and trusted references.
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kij said:
York City Ice Arena has a capacity of 1,000 people. NAHL league mandates require seating for 1,500. Also to dredge this back up, it is the rough costs that teams incur throughout the year. The league has that minimum seating requirement because they realize that for teams to be sustainable they need that many paying fans per game. I do not know of any other arenas in PA with that much seating other than where Aston was, Penn state arena, Johnstown, and Connellsville where the NAHL has failed already.
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And that's why I emphasized might. Don't need the business model quoted back. I said might be sufficient because often it is not very hard for rinks of that size to add a few hundred seats. The WBS Knights did exactly that to their respective venue just before joining the NAHL. If I recall, NJ did the same. Rostraver added a few hundred temporary seats into otherwise unused space to host the Penguins practice for Hockeyville. So yes, York Ice Arena might be sufficient.
 
Philly's done next to nothing in the marketing department to get the word out there. They also have the tough task of getting people to understand what junior hockey is. Die hard Flyers fans know the major junior leagues by following their prospects, but I would guess most of that group doesn't know about the NAHL.
 
cmh329 said:
Philly's done next to nothing in the marketing department to get the word out there. They also have the tough task of getting people to understand what junior hockey is. Die hard Flyers fans know the major junior leagues by following their prospects, but I would guess most of that group doesn't know about the NAHL.
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Agreed, it really takes a lot of work to get people used to being able to see pro hockey for relatively cheap to junior hockey games, even the USHL struggles in markets it should be a smash in. The Rebels honestly believe that a good team is all they need.

Captain Crash said:
And that's why I emphasized might. Don't need the business model quoted back. I said might be sufficient because often it is not very hard for rinks of that size to add a few hundred seats. The WBS Knights did exactly that to their respective venue just before joining the NAHL. If I recall, NJ did the same. Rostraver added a few hundred temporary seats into otherwise unused space to host the Penguins practice for Hockeyville. So yes, York Ice Arena might be sufficient.
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The county of York has a population of 45,000 people with a median household income of roughly $60,000. The numbers can work however, I actually misread the capacity, it is 500 in each rink not 1,000 in one rink. Doubtful you could triple the capacity without losing the second arena or massive upgrades.
 
Philly has been warned by the league about their arena fog problems. One game already suspended, and one had to have an additional intermission in the second period to clear the fog. If they have additional problems they will be forced to find a new place to play, or be forced to forfeit the next game with a fog issue. I don't think going back to their old rink is an option based on fallout on renewing the contract last year. I don't see this being a problem until the spring, or an unusually warm winter gameday, but something to look out for.
 
Anyone have a clue as to why David Thomson only has 3 games played for Corpus Christi after dominating last season as a rookie?
 
Expansion this offseason? NAHL Expansion In 2018?

The Junior Hockey News reporting possible expansion to Elmira NY, Danbury CT, the Dallas TX metro, and Alaska. If they can pull off Danbury and Elmira, they could really stabilize the east division (assuming of course the fans there take to juniors like Johnstown did).
 
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