Confirmed Trade: [MTL/NSH] Alexandre Carrier for Justin Barron

[Romang67]

For anyone who cares, I was asking for a F for Barron a year ago:

Value of: - Justin Barron for a F

Montreal has a *lot* of young D, including RD Mailloux who is doing well in the AHL and RD Reinbacher who they invested a top 5 draft position in. Currently, with Savard and Kovacevic doing ok, and Guhle showing the ability to play RD, I wonder if Justin Barron might be available. He's still...

forums.hfboards.com

Hey look:

No, I asked if he was viewed as a full-time D-man next season because he's about to be waiver eligible. If he's at risk at going through waivers, his value would obviously be quite a bit lower than the regular value for a recent RHD who was picked in the first round.

Not everything is an attack on Habs players. In the OP, you spell out why he might not have a clear and obvious spot on the roster next season. I'm expanding on that.

Damn near prescient. Less than a year later, the underperforming RHD's value was indeed quite a bit lower than the regular value for a recent RHD who was picked in the first round. He didn't go on waivers, but he probably returned less than he would have because he was waiver eligible.

Are you thinking before writing your posts on this board? Honest question since you seems clueless most of the time.

I dunno, seems I do think before writing my posts on this board every now and then..

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I like this deal from the Habs perspective. Gives them a competent 4/5 tweener RHD who can play with some different partners and eat some minutes, move the puck, not be a total trainwreck. He's not really going to be an important piece of anything...but if/when the Habs decide to move Savard for value, it gives them a RHD who can play those minutes...so they don't have to completely throw Mailloux or an injured Reinbacher to the wolves.


Probably could've gotten more "value" elsewhere if they just went for futures...but i think Habs have plenty of that. They still need guys who can actually fill minutes over the next while.


And all they dealt is a guy who is immensely frustrating, because he's got all the tools...but can't seem to put it all together. I think they gave Barron plenty of opportunity and he just hasn't seized any of it really. I still like him as a gamble for a total change of scenery and maybe he eventually starts to figure it out. Nashville at the bottom of the league can afford to goof around and feed him minutes and see what happens. But it's looking dubious that Barron will ever become a more competent player than Carrier at this point.

Very good argumentation...

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

The real mistake was Armia over Lehkonen. Bergevin chose Joel. There wasn't room for both.

Bergevin or Hughes/Gorton ?

 

[pth2]

Bergevin or Hughes/Gorton ?

Bergevin signed the contracts after the run to the Finals, but their length meant Lehkonen was easier to sell off, as he was on a 1-year deal, whereas Armia signed a 4 year deal for bigger dollars, and the contracts Bergevin signed overall put the Habs into a cap crunch when the Cap stopped rising due to Covid. I remember reading how they expected Lehk would be worth about 4.5 on a longer term deal, and that wasn't a number they could fit under the cap (when it wasn't yet clear Price was essentially gone forever, and not just injured for a while)

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Today is day of GMs finally cutting loose on prospects they thought had potential and get at least something in return...

 

[GirardSpinorama]

The pressure cooker in montreal is getting to Hughes. Why make all these moves, just let the rebuild organically happen.

 

[biturbo19]

I had questioned why Kovacevic had been traded last year. I assumed at the time that it meant they thought Mailloux was ready, though to me that still left a hole that meant Guhle would still be unable to play on his natural side at LD.

I cant help but think this trade is to put a veteran presence back in there to make up for that mistake.

That being said, Carrier is getting 3rd most minutes in Nashville. He is much smaller than Kovacevic but evidently more mobile and good on his first pass. -14 seems really bad but Nashville is doing bad enough that i dont know how take that stat. Barron certainly doesnt inspire confidence, and he surely doesnt represent the future for hte habs.

I think habs will be more happy with Carrier than Nash with Barron. Kevin Raphael released something that has Carrier talk about how much he'd like to play for Montreal, but it hadn't been aired at hte time, presumably because of the conflict of interest in playing for a rival and saying that. I hope that means he will get a boost of motivation.

The biggest thing in this is though...is that Kovacevic is looking "great" on an extremely deep blueline playing with very very good partners. He was never going to look that good playing on Montreal's mid-rebuild defence corps.

The other thing is...the Habs now have Carrier to more or less fill that void, plus a 3rd/4th round pick. Which isn't much...but it's also been done overall, at basically the expense of just a guy who had run out of runway with the team in Barron.

Another factor with Kovacevic is that he's an impending UFA, who could have very easily either walked...or commanded a substantial raise with significant term attached...and he was clearly not going to be a big part of the Habs future defence corps that they'd want to lock up with term like that, as they have plenty of guys coming along. Carrier has an extra year that fits the window for guys like Mailloux and Reinbacher.


Sure, the Habs lost some size on the back end in the process, but they also needed to move out some bodies just to even get guys like Barron some icetime to find out if he was gonna be a long-term piece for them or not. And at the end of the day...it's not like the Habs are in some contender window that they need to absolutely maximize right now. Carrier vs Kovacevic for them is close enough to a wash that i think the other benefits outweigh the drawbacks on size.

 

[MasterMatt25]

The pressure cooker in montreal is getting to Hughes. Why make all these moves, just let the rebuild organically happen.

They didn't see Barron as a part of the rebuild. Carrier can be flipped for more picks and is more established so likelihood of getting a better deal there

 

[herzausstein]

With all the cozens and Nashville theories floating around... every time I see the Nashville trade banner at the top my heart sinks

 

[pth2]

The biggest thing in this is though...is that Kovacevic is looking "great" on an extremely deep blueline playing with very very good partners. He was never going to look that good playing on Montreal's mid-rebuild defence corps.

The other thing is...the Habs now have Carrier to more or less fill that void, plus a 3rd/4th round pick. Which isn't much...but it's also been done overall, at basically the expense of just a guy who had run out of runway with the team in Barron.

Another factor with Kovacevic is that he's an impending UFA, who could have very easily either walked...or commanded a substantial raise with significant term attached...and he was clearly not going to be a big part of the Habs future defence corps that they'd want to lock up with term like that, as they have plenty of guys coming along. Carrier has an extra year that fits the window for guys like Mailloux and Reinbacher.


Sure, the Habs lost some size on the back end in the process, but they also needed to move out some bodies just to even get guys like Barron some icetime to find out if he was gonna be a long-term piece for them or not. And at the end of the day...it's not like the Habs are in some contender window that they need to absolutely maximize right now. Carrier vs Kovacevic for them is close enough to a wash that i think the other benefits outweigh the drawbacks on size.

So many people choose to ignore this.... if Montreal had kept him, he'd either be getting rented out, or extended for something like 4x3.5M, which doesn't fit the timeline otherwise.

 

[Egresch]

Carrier vs Kovacevic for them is close enough to a wash that i think the other benefits outweigh the drawbacks on size.

If you say Habs just exchanged Kovacevic for Carrier, than basically we traded Barron for 4th which is a terrible trade.

 

[Egresch]

Overall, very interesting trade:
NSH fans are happy to get rid of Carrier who is supposed to be soft -14 on a bad contract.
MTL fans are happy to get rid of Barron because he did not pan out and does not have a future with the team.

In the end, MTL can get experienced RHD who can replace Savard and be a good stop gap until Reinbacher and Mailloux get ready for NHL.
I am one of few Habs fans, but I still think Barron can become top 4 D. He just needs to get the real chance to develop. Get him one stable defensive LHD partner and he can thrive.

 

[HuGort]

Hindsight is 20/20 and ignoring that we got three first back in all that movement is revisionist to say the least.

At the time of the Lehkonen trade, a second and a former first was considered strong value. Barron had promise at the time of the trade. I would have kept lehks over Armia, but the clubs hands were pretty well tied.

We gave up a first and a third for Dach. The first was acquired in the Romanov trade, so Romanov and a pick for Kirby. Dach looked strong the first year with Monahan, and came to camp in 2023 with a boat load of confidence. It takes time to come back from the kind of injury he had. If at all. There was risk regarding injury history, but I think it was a low-risk move.

Is Newhook the player that took steps last year and put up good second line pace, or is he the player that's hit the skids this year? It's probably the worst value of all the moves.

In - a 25th overall, a 3rd overall, and a 16th overall. Three firsts.

Out - a second (Romanov), a second (Lehkonen), a 4th round pick, a first round pick (Nazar), a 3rd (Fairbrother), a 1st, and a 2nd.

On the face, 3 firsts for two first, two 2nds, a 3rd and a 4th.


I

Hindsight 20/20 but you have to have common sense when making the deal. Dach not even trying, Barron no hockey sense, Newhook bottom six winger. All you doing is buying somebody's junk.

 

[JuJu Mobb]

The pressure cooker in montreal is getting to Hughes. Why make all these moves, just let the rebuild organically happen.

Yeah, it's the first i see a GM make a trade during a rebuild.

It's must be getting really hot in the kitchen.

 

[NORiculous]

Good riddance. Can’t believe we let lehk go for this guy

+ Hage though

They didn't see Barron as a part of the rebuild. Carrier can be flipped for more picks and is more established so likelihood of getting a better deal there

way too early to « give up » on him IMO

 

[HabbyGuy]

It's not your traditional salary dump because Carrier can play, he's just making more than he should be and Brunette has been playing him in a much larger role than he should be.

Carrier is a good solid #5 and can be a decent #4 if he has the right partner, but they were basically playing him as a #3 trying to lead another pairing and he's jut not that guy. Carrier is a solid supporting defender that will chip in some offense here and there and won't kill you defensively as long as you don't try and give him a ton of minutes.

His size and strength cause him issues, and it also leads to being injured just about every season. Barron is apparently soft? well Carrier isn't far from that on his own. He seems to find himself on his knees in the corners way too much.

I think the most logical partner for him will be Guhle at this time. It puts Kaiden back at his natural position and he's our most solid dman. I'm think Carrier will be a number 4 in Montreal for now.

Hutson Matheson
Guhle Carrier
Xhekaj Savard
Struble

 

[Jack Spider]

It's ok to admit that Montreal lost the Lekh trade. It's kind of cringe to keep commenting how a 2nd was part of a trade to move up in a draft.

Barron is still worth giving a chance. He has the skills,size and athleticism of an NHL player. Needs to work on his game. I hope he gels well with the coaches there.

Carrier is a perfect fit for Montreal. He just needs to work hard and people will love him. That's all you really need to do to be liked in Montreal.

 

[alphahelix]

Carrier is a real solid D-man today, and that is harder to find when you need it than most HF’ers would like to admit.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Carrier is a real solid D-man today, and that is harder to find when you need it than most HF’ers would like to admit.

Yup. We have no young players at RHD that he'll block and with our lack of talent solid every day NHL players are a need at every position. Not expecting veteran leadership from him but sometimes it's good just to have more adults in the room.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Yeah, it's the first i see a GM make a trade during a rebuild.

It's must be getting really hot in the kitchen.

That might be too subtle.

God invented emojis for a reason...

 

[Petes2424]

True. The only "core" part of it is it shows how far Barron fell out of Montreal's potential future core to become a reclamation project for another team.

100%… You can’t blame them for acquiring him though, but if we remember, many were surprised Colorado included him. I know I was. It’s played out where, now we all know why. Montreal has actually given him every opportunity to be more than he is.

I’d wager he ends up on waivers at some point this year, and a 4th team takes an extended look. Even though every GM is aware of his situation, you always think you’re smarter than the other managers and your coaches will fix him. Plus, after the 4th team, nobody’s claiming him anymore.

After the 4th team, he’ll likely settle into this process I was talking about. Up and down for the next 2-3 years and hopefully it ends with him having a solid 5-7 years as a bottom pairing Dman somewhere. In many ways I think that’s what Montreal was already doing with him. Dummying down his game and getting him NHL minutes. They just can’t afford to do it anymore.

They needed a trade like this for their blue line. Hopefully Carrier is more of an answer than an issue. All he needs to do, is be a supporting partner for one of their kids. Don’t try doing too much. Just help settle things down.

It can go either way. If he’s asked to do too much (or tries to) it’ll go sideways. I also wouldn’t pay too much attention to how they use him initially. At least towards the deadline. They may even put him with Matheson, just to help settle things down. Come camp though, they’ll figure out what kid he fits best in a supporting role, and that’ll likely be his partner for the next couple of years.

 

[pth2]

....

After the 4th team, he’ll likely settle into this process I was talking about. Up and down for the next 2-3 years and hopefully it ends with him having a solid 5-7 years as a bottom pairing Dman somewhere. In many ways I think that’s what Montreal was already doing with him. Dummying down his game and getting him NHL minutes. They just can’t afford to do it anymore.
....

I wonder if he has that in him, though. Once he became less adventurous on offense, his defense didn't really improve, either. I see him as a top-4 or bust: he'll either generate enough offense to be worth his defensive deficiencies, or he'll be out of the league. I'm comparing him to guys like Beaulieu or Hainsey who had to make the kind of transition you're describing, and both managed it to a certain extent, by improving in their zone and eliminating risk from their game. I'm just not sure Barron can improve enough in his zone for that. Still, I wish Nashville the best - he might turn into a great PP/OT specialist who gets sheltered minutes 5 on 5.

 

[biturbo19]

So many people choose to ignore this.... if Montreal had kept him, he'd either be getting rented out, or extended for something like 4x3.5M, which doesn't fit the timeline otherwise.

Absolutely. It's all about lining up timelines to maximize your long-term cap situation, for when the team is hopefully actually competitive.

If you say Habs just exchanged Kovacevic for Carrier, than basically we traded Barron for 4th which is a terrible trade.

I mean, it's not good value...but that's just the nature of failed projects. There's value in learning that Barron ain't squat, and moving him for something. In the stage the Habs are at, they need to, and can afford to dither around and let guys try to figure it out. But Barron has more or less run out of chances there. I still think there's a possibility he becomes a decent #4/5 offensive D/PP Specialist somewhere. But at some point in a rebuild, you've gotta start cutting bait with guys who aren't tracking as future core players or guys that you'd want to keep around.

You get a conditional 4th in the process and i'd call that very slightly above breaking even.

 

[Egresch]

You get a conditional 4th in the process and i'd call that very slightly above breaking even.

It may surprise you, but currently there are just 11 RHDs who are 23 and younger in the whole NHL. People may not like Barron, but he is such rare commodity that 4th is definitely not enough.

 

[pth2]

It may surprise you, but currently there are just 11 RHDs who are 23 and younger in the whole NHL. People may not like Barron, but he is such rare commodity that 4th is definitely not enough.

What you aren't taking into account, though, is the contract length - the Habs got Carrier with 2.5 seasons left on his deal. It's more than likely that Kovasevic will be looking for a 4 or 5 year deal as a UFA (and he'll be old enough to know this is likely his one big contract), so a short-term deal with Carrier, who is also overall somewhat older and somewhat more experienced than Kovasevic, is a better fit than Kovasevic would have been. I actually suspect Carrier is worth more than a 4th, as he's more of a known commodity, and signed for longer than the 1 Kovasevic season NJ traded for.

I'm not saying it's overall a good deal to go from Lehkonen to Carrier, but that's the nature of a rebuild: you trade for young players and picks and don't know if you'll end up with a Suzuki or a Barron, or if you'll draft a Hutson or a Norlinder with the acquired picks.

I mean, the Sens got very little for Mark Stone when you consider how Brannstrom didn't really work out, but overall in moving Karlsson and Stone they got a great return a some cornerstones for the future.