Proposal: MTL & NJ

[Xirik]

So let me get this straight.

Casey > Hutson
Casey > Mailloux
Nemec > Mailloux
Nemec > Hutson
* Suzuki shouldn’t be on a first line
* Caufield shouldn’t be on a first line
* Slaf is only a potential first liner if all goes well
* Montreal coach sucks

However, when I look at line-ups I see Mercer and Palat in the Devils top 6. I see Lehkonen as a first liner in Colorado and O’Connor on a 2nd line. I see Rodrigues on a first line and Bennett as a 2C on a cup champion. I see Mikkola and Kulikov on a contender top 4.

Ya’ll have unrealistic expectations as what a top 6 and top 4 should be in a league with a hard cap.

I think from now on I’m just going to blindly agree with all the (always the same) Habs hater takes;

- Hutson is nothing special and doesn’t know how to defend
- Suzuki is a 2C
- Caufield is best suited for the 2nd line
- If all goes well for Slaf, he may or may not become a first liner
- Guhle is just ok. Probably a #4 on a real contender
- There is no alternate universe where Demidov might even become half as good as Michkov
- Savard doesn’t hold any value. Maybe a 4th?
- Evans is a borderline 4C in this league.
- Reinbacher shouldn’t even have been a first round pick. If we’re lucky, he will become an OK #4.

Am I missing anything?

-Casey and Hutson are close ATM. I don't think this was a controversial statement, Unless Mailloux suddenly does a 180 and really fixes his skating and terrible defense then Casey AND Hutson are better then him
-Nemec is definitely better then Mailloux and you know that. But if you honestly believe different go make a poll
-Nemec and Hutson are very different defenseman I think Hutson has harder road to hit his ceiling. I don't think this is a controversial statement.

-Suzuki is the only center on the Habs and hard to know what he is. sometime's he looks like a great 1C and other times he looks like a fringe 1C
- Top two lines are pretty interchangeable in hockey. Caufield is definitely not a 3rd liner
-Slaf will probably be a 1st liner and even if he isn't he brings a unique style that is needed in the playoffs
-Guhle is on an island by himself surrounded by crap defensemen who can't play defense or young rookies.
- I think Michkov is better but Half as good? nah. If some Hab's fans didn't spend the year before denigrating Michkov on the main boards then probably there'd be less trolls talking down Demidov.

-Savard is making Hutson look bad, He definitely isn't worth a 1st
-Evans is one of the best 4C's in the league
- Reinbacher at the moment looks like a defensive shutdown defenseman, They are needed on any team, They rarely get picked in the top 5 anymore cause of how the NHL is moving towards points points points.


Perhaps you shouldn't throw everyone in the "Habs hater" bubble. Some of them stated things that are turning out to be true.
1. Hab's probably aren't going to be in the playoff race
2. The rebuild will take longer as prospects have ups and downs and not every good or great prospect turns out how they should
3. The team would hurt from having traded away some of their talent from last season.
4. SKA has a terrible coach.

 

[Baksfamous112]

-Casey and Hutson are close ATM. I don't think this was a controversial statement, Unless Mailloux suddenly does a 180 and really fixes his skating and terrible defense then Casey AND Hutson are better then him
-Nemec is definitely better then Mailloux and you know that. But if you honestly believe different go make a poll
-Nemec and Hutson are very different defenseman I think Hutson has harder road to hit his ceiling. I don't think this is a controversial statement.

-Suzuki is the only center on the Habs and hard to know what he is. sometime's he looks like a great 1C and other times he looks like a fringe 1C
- Top two lines are pretty interchangeable in hockey. Caufield is definitely not a 3rd liner
-Slaf will probably be a 1st liner and even if he isn't he brings a unique style that is needed in the playoffs
-Guhle is on an island by himself surrounded by crap defensemen who can't play defense or young rookies.
- I think Michkov is better but Half as good? nah. If some Hab's fans didn't spend the year before denigrating Michkov on the main boards then probably there'd be less trolls talking down Demidov.

-Savard is making Hutson look bad, He definitely isn't worth a 1st
-Evans is one of the best 4C's in the league
- Reinbacher at the moment looks like a defensive shutdown defenseman, They are needed on any team, They rarely get picked in the top 5 anymore cause of how the NHL is moving towards points points points.


Perhaps you shouldn't throw everyone in the "Habs hater" bubble. Some of them stated things that are turning out to be true.
1. Hab's probably aren't going to be in the playoff race
2. The rebuild will take longer as prospects have ups and downs and not every good or great prospect turns out how they should
3. The team would hurt from having traded away some of their talent from last season.
4. SKA has a terrible coach.

- Casey and Hutson are not close at the moment. I’m not sure what the big deal is to accept that reality.

- Mailloux needing to work on his D? Maybe. Although he’s been doing very good in the A, he hasn’t shown it in the big league yet. he was timid with and without the puck in Montreal this year and was pushed off the puck too easily while being a strength in the A. One thing I know for sure is his skating is one of his best asset. The fact that you mention that tells me you have no idea who Mailloux is as a player

- I agree that Nemec is on another level to Mailloux. Nothing outrageous here

- Hutson and Nemec are two different type of D as well. Hard to judge as you said

- Suzuki had 77 points as a 24 years old on a rebuilding team completely deprived of offensive talent. On pace for 82 this year as a 25 years old. Also 2x in top 10 of selke votes already. I’m not sure what else you want from him.

- Slaf is already at worst a low end 1st liner and he’s 20…

- I agree about Guhle. Not an easy situation to be in.

- The chances that Demidov becomes a better hockey player than Michkov is as good as Michkov ending up being the better. It’s a coin toss.

- Your are really underrating the fact that practically no RHD are available and almost every team needs one. Savard is definitely getting a 1st if traded at the deadline.

- Evans has been putting up 3C numbers for the past 3 years. I’m not sure why he wouldn’t be considered as one.

- Much like Mailloux, you probably haven’t seen Reinbacher play at all. There is definitely offense in his games. He’s probably never going to run a PP1 (especially with Hutson on the team) but he can generate offense for sure. His short stint in the AHL at the end of last year as an 18 years old proved that. He doesn’t stand out but does everything well. Think Devon Toews… but bigger.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So let me get this straight.

Casey > Hutson
Casey > Mailloux
Nemec > Mailloux

IMO
Casey >= Hutson
Casey >> Mailloux
Nemec > Mailloux

Nemec > Hutson

I would probably take Hutson, but they are different players.

* Suzuki shouldn’t be on a first line

He's more of a 2C on a contender, but he's fine as a 1C on Montreal

* Caufield shouldn’t be on a first line

He's for sure a 1st line caliber goal scorer

* Slaf is only a potential first liner if all goes well

He's played like a high end 2nd line PWF for the last 11 months, I think it's unlikely he doesn't peak as a 1st line winger

* Montreal coach sucks

I've been very complimentary of St Louis, he's been great for their young players IMO.

I think from now on I’m just going to blindly agree with all the (always the same) Habs hater takes;

- Hutson is nothing special and doesn’t know how to defend

I've been extremely complimentary of his game:

Obviously he's not the best defensive player but that's hardly controversial

- Suzuki is a 2C

On a cup contender, ideally you have a better C than Suzuki. Hes a low end 1C / high end 2C.

- Caufield is best suited for the 2nd line
- If all goes well for Slaf, he may or may not become a first liner
- Guhle is just ok. Probably a #4 on a real contender
- There is no alternate universe where Demidov might even become half as good as Michkov
- Savard doesn’t hold any value. Maybe a 4th?
- Evans is a borderline 4C in this league.
- Reinbacher shouldn’t even have been a first round pick. If we’re lucky, he will become an OK #4.

Never said any of that

Am I missing anything?

Facts?

 

[My3Sons]

IMO
Casey >= Hutson
Casey >> Mailloux
Nemec > Mailloux

I would probably take Hutson, but they are different players.

He's more of a 2C on a contender, but he's fine as a 1C on Montreal

He's for sure a 1st line caliber goal scorer

He's played like a high end 2nd line PWF for the last 11 months, I think it's unlikely he doesn't peak as a 1st line winger

I've been very complimentary of St Louis, he's been great for their young players IMO.

I've been extremely complimentary of his game:
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View attachment 927020

Obviously he's not the best defensive player but that's hardly controversial

On a cup contender, ideally you have a better C than Suzuki. Hes a low end 1C / high end 2C.

Never said any of that

Facts?

I think part of the discussion has to acknowledge these are all just competing opinions. Nobody is right or wrong. For example, I think Ben Lovejoy is the best defenseman of all time. That statement is factually correct. Prove me wrong. Stuff like that creates these projections where people are told they believe something they don't.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I think part of the discussion has to acknowledge these are all just competing opinions. Nobody is right or wrong.

I agree, but unfortunately some posters see differing opinions about their players and assume that the poster must hate their team.

The opinions aren't right or wrong, but It is wrong to publicly label people a hater or a fanboy based on a few select opinions.

For example, I think Ben Lovejoy is the best defenseman of all time. That statement is factually correct. Prove me wrong.

Your opinion is wrong and you are a fanboy.

 

[My3Sons]

Your opinion is wrong and you are a fanboy.

My statement is factually correct. Where did I say my opinion was correct? They are different things. Beyond that, if you speak ill of Lovejoy he will smite you. You do not want to be smited.

 

[Xirik]

My statement is factually correct. Where did I say my opinion was correct? They are different things. Beyond that, if you speak ill of Lovejoy he will smite you. You do not want to be smited.

 

[Garbageyuk]

There is nothing worse than trade proposals with habs in the mix. devils have no reason to trade a 20 year old d man who they selected 2nd overall after he’s played less than 70 games. He’s a luxury they have right now that can marinate in the ahl soon until an injury happens. Devils aren’t unsatisfied with his development at all, just have an overloaded blue line.

Habs have no reason to trade two recent 1st round picks, plus another for a young D who’s far from a sure thing (upside-wise). I love how you just assume the Habs would be interested in this, just because a Habs fan posted it. Why should they be? Because Nemec was taken 2nd overall? Lots of 2nd overall picks don’t pan out - Nemec is no guarantee as far as upside, and the OP is a gross overpayment. It’s fine if NJ doesn’t want to trade Nemec; nobody says they should.

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

Habs have no reason to trade two recent 1st round picks, plus another for a young D who’s far from a sure thing (upside-wise). I love how you just assume the Habs would be interested in this, just because a Habs fan posted it. Why should they be? Because Nemec was taken 2nd overall? Lots of 2nd overall picks don’t pan out - Nemec is no guarantee as far as upside, and the OP is a gross overpayment. It’s fine if NJ doesn’t want to trade Nemec; nobody says they should

Silly me, thinking habs fans would be interested in Nemec in the thread that a habs fan created about being interested in Nemec. You’re adamant that Nemec is no sure thing, but the proposal is for prospects and picks that are less desirable and much bigger unknowns than Nemec is so it certainly isn’t an overpayment on the habs side.

I respect habs fans, as a Canadian myself I think they’re the best Canadian fan base with a reverence for the sport like no other fan base in the league. That being said, every trade proposal with made by a habs fan ends up with a bunch of fans trashing the guy they apparently would like to trade for while propping up the guy they’re willing to get rid of for whatever reason.

 

[TBF1972]

Habs have no reason to trade two recent 1st round picks, plus another for a young D who’s far from a sure thing (upside-wise). I love how you just assume the Habs would be interested in this, just because a Habs fan posted it. Why should they be? Because Nemec was taken 2nd overall? Lots of 2nd overall picks don’t pan out - Nemec is no guarantee as far as upside, and the OP is a gross overpayment. It’s fine if NJ doesn’t want to trade Nemec; nobody says they should.

1) you still have not realized that the offer is hage + mailloux OR calgary 1st, which could turn into the florida 1st. other in other words hage + a late first, as mailloux is not desired at all. if hage wouldn't be a fairly popular prospect on the devils board, the offer would be even less appreciated.
2) in your reasoning your bias is shining through strongly. on the one side you make it sound that two recent 1st round picks have a lot of value just by being former 1st round picks. when you switch to the other side you down play the draft position of nemec as a former 2nd overall pick.

 

[habsfan44]

Yeah. I'm surprised and disappointed. I thought the Habs would be better this year and make some moves towards a playoff spot. They still look like one of the worst teams in the NHL. Not getting nearly enough from the middle of the roster. Anderson, Dach, Matheson, Newhook, Barron, Arima, Savard, Xhakji... not a single one of these guys is having even decent season so far.

Evans, Dvorak and Gallagher are just playing so-so hockey, but not terrible hockey.

Guhle is just solid, but not great.

It's a one line team. And that's it. I like Suzuki, but he's not what I'd want as my 1C. Same with Caufield as a wing... these two are what I'd describe as high-end 2nd liners on better teams.

Slaf is about the only guy on this roster that I see as a potential legit 1st liner. There is nothing close to a top pair defender on this team. Guhle seems like a very good middle pair guy as his ceiling. The idea that Matheson is top pair is preposterous. He's got some nice offensive chops, but his defensive game is a train-wreck.

Probably time to find a better coach.

I'm good with Suzuki , Caufield , Slafkovsky , Dach , Kapanen , Heineman and Laine along with Demidov , Hage , Beck , Roy and this years first rounders on the way . 20 y.o. Lane Hutson is easily a future top pairing defender and the rest of the defensive pool is overflowing with young talent whose major flaw is their collective inexperience , but that'll come with time . Every rebuilding team goes through growing pains , it's no different for Montreal . It's year four of a five year rebuild and now is the time for patience not panic .