Proposal: MTL/EDM filling needs proposal.

[snipes]

He's probably more well-rounded than I thought then.

I remember back in his draft year, I wasn't sold on him at all as the #1 pick. I remember saying to the friend I was watching the draft with: "This guy is the next Sam Gagner". I guess that description stuck in my head over time.

Nugent-Hopkins is actually quite well rounded. Watch him play the PK, he's very good on the PK.

Again, he's a Centre as well which carries added value.

 

[Vote4Lubo]

To Montreal: Ryan Nugent Hopkins.

To Edmonton: Thomas Plekanec, Andrei Markov and a 1st pick.

Reasoning for Montreal: This is the last year to rotate our asset into something with Andrei Markov. RNH will be able to become our 2nd/maybe 1st line center providing great 2 way play like Plekanec did for multiple seasons at a fair price.

Reasoning for Edmonton: It's no surprise that the Oils need a QB type defensmen. Andrei Markov is still a top 5/top 10 pp defensmen that will help out Edmonton a ton. Plekanec is a remarkable protecting the lead player, he'll be able to surround the kids with smart veteran plays in every situation imaginable. He'll also in that 3rd line center role allow both McDavid and Draisatl to flourish offensively while he takes defensive Face-offs and the match ups against 1st line centers.

Reasoning for the 1st pick: But I hear from Edmonton fans (BUT WE NEED ESTABLISHED PLAYERS), which I agree, the pick is there for 2 reasons. 1) To balance out the proposal since RNH is younger and they take on more salary and 2) it's a great asset to flip at the deadline since for the 1st time since they went to the cup finals, they'll probably be byers.

I haven't made a proposal in years and I know there's a million MTL/EDM proposals here. Hopefully this goes well.

This is bad and you should feel bad

 

[zar]

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised that Edmonton fans aren't interested in what was offered in the OP. Now, I don't know what kind of impact it would have on the Oilers financial structure, but in a vacuum:

- With Conor McDavid playing first line, I would argue that Plekanec would be a much better option as 2nd or even 3rd line center (depending where you put Draisaitl) than RNH could ever be. From an outsider's point of view, seems like it would bring TONS of balance and stability to your center line.

- Markov, while being 37-years old, is still a solid top-4 defenseman, who can REALLY make the difference on the PP. It's a moot point, because I really think Markov is gonna end his career in Montreal, but while he may not be the 'young defenseman' you guys can expect to groom with your other young players, he's something that you don't have.

But the key remain the first round pick. Even if you add RNH to the Habs ine-up, there's NO DOUBT in my mind that this team CAN'T win without Plekanec and Markov. Hell, as of right now, we're a team 'fighting for a playoffs spot'. Take Plekanec and Markov out, we're lottery for sure, and probably a top-8 pick.

Now say you make the deal, and get a top-10, you...

a) Improved your team this year (which could be benefitial in the development of your young players), and probably next year as well with a returning Plekanec, still bringing stability down the middle.

b) You get a top-10 pick in the draft...which seems like a pretty good return by itself for RNH, considering he probably wouldn't go Top-5 if we redrafted the 2011 class.

Any Oilers fan wanna pitch in ?
(as in having a conversation, without calling each others names)

I agree with your pitch, as can see from my earlier post, that's why I said it would be a TDL deal... the key is that 1st has to be a top 10 pick and the Oilers need to be in the run for the playoffs.

 

[zar]

If it takes you 6 years to develop a top-20 picks (still maintained it would be top-10 with that trade) into a player that would be helpful for your team, then you're doing something wrong.

I guess I'm not evaluating RNH correctly. I see a good player, albeit somewhat of a question mark in terms of durability. But, and I don't mean that as an insult, just giving you my outsider's point of view, I don't see him as top-3 talent. To me he's like a Kyle Turris -kinda guy. Someone that you could play on your top-line, but ultimately would be a much better fit as a 2nd line playmaker.

Anyway, I was just curious, as I could see some real upside for the Oilers in the OP deal. Still a no from my Hab fan's point of view.

Think Markov back a few years ago when he had that reputation... some fluke injuries but not anything will affect his game. If these were serious knee, serious shoulder or concussion injuries then that's a different story.

 

[VainGretzky]

Not a chance we are not competing for the cup this year so were not giving up a 2 way center who is 23 for 2 over the hill players and magic beans.

 

[snipes]

Not a chance we are not competing for the cup this year so were not giving up a 2 way center who is 23 for 2 over the hill players and magic beans.

/thread

 

[Homesick]

If it takes you 6 years to develop a top-20 picks (still maintained it would be top-10 with that trade) into a player that would be helpful for your team, then you're doing something wrong.

I guess I'm not evaluating RNH correctly. I see a good player, albeit somewhat of a question mark in terms of durability. But, and I don't mean that as an insult, just giving you my outsider's point of view, I don't see him as top-3 talent. To me he's like a Kyle Turris -kinda guy. Someone that you could play on your top-line, but ultimately would be a much better fit as a 2nd line playmaker.

Anyway, I was just curious, as I could see some real upside for the Oilers in the OP deal. Still a no from my Hab fan's point of view.

Like Tinordi, Leblanc, Fischer, Chipchura, ect. Who exactly has the Habs developed out of their 16-30 picks? I'm not picking on the Habs development just showing that its a total crap shoot

 

[Mersss]

So you want us to give up a 1st line very very young Center for a couple people who's careers are likely over in a year and what will likely be a meh first? And take us over the cap? Nah dawg this proposal isn't good.

Sorry, but I see a 50pts 2nd line C in the proposl, not a 60pts #1C (cause IMO, you need to reach 60 to be considred a #1C)

Proposal is pure garbage for EDM, but saying RNH is a 1st line C is not true at all. He's a good 2nd line C thats it

 

[Mersss]

Like Tinordi, Leblanc, Fischer, Chipchura, ect. Who exactly has the Habs developed out of their 16-30 picks? I'm not picking on the Habs development just showing that its a total crap shoot

Well, technicly Habs have drafted top 10 3 times over the last 11years...

2005 Carey Price : Has developped quite well i'd say
2012 : Galchenyuk : Who's outscored RNH last year BTW.
2016 : Sergachyev

I'd say Habs have developped 100$ of their top 15 picks in the last 10 years... That's not too bad!

 

[Mersss]

I agree with your pitch, as can see from my earlier post, that's why I said it would be a TDL deal... the key is that 1st has to be a top 10 pick and the Oilers need to be in the run for the playoffs.

And why excatly would the Habs, at the TDL, knwoing they'll end up top10, trade that top10 pick for an undersized, weak, often injured 50pts C?

AND, give Plekanec, who's value at the TDL would prob be around a 1st pick 15-20range

AND give up Markov who'd likely also get a late 1st pick to a contender team Knwoing he's great on the PP and a proven top4D?

Thats basicly giving 3 1st round pick for RNH and that won,t happen.

 

[OutForMilk]

And why excatly would the Habs, at the TDL, knwoing they'll end up top10, trade that top10 pick for an undersized, weak, often injured 50pts C?

AND, give Plekanec, who's value at the TDL would prob be around a 1st pick 15-20range

AND give up Markov who'd likely also get a late 1st pick to a contender team Knwoing he's great on the PP and a proven top4D?

Thats basicly giving 3 1st round pick for RNH and that won,t happen.

No one is giving up a 1st for either one of those players, sorry. Especially not with the expansion draft coming. The cap matters, you know.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

RNH career 0.71pts/game.
Pleks career 0.65pts/game.
And at this point in RNH's career he has 222 NHL points. At this same age Pleks would have had 29.
Funny definition of "yet to prove" he's better. He's certainly on a much better career trajectory.

Yeah let's chery pick stats. Right now Plekanec's career +/- is +44.

RNH's +/- is -32. When he's Plekanec's age he should be around -200. He reached his best PPG in his first season and he never came close to that. His ppg is lower than Plekanec this year.

You really think he proved he was better than Plekanec?

 

[Mersss]

No one is giving up a 1st for either one of those players, sorry. Especially not with the expansion draft coming. The cap matters, you know.

A team that wants to win the cup and is in need for a top4 D will give a 1st for Markov guaranteed.

You don,t need to protect him after you know?

Same for Plekanec. A team in need of a #2C that wants to make it further in the playoffs (ala Nashville for exemple) will give a 1st at the TDL for a 50-60pts C who's also a great PKer and defensive machine

 

[dss97]

This "filling need proposal" doesn't address any needs for Edmonton, so it is an obvious pass.

 

[iCanada]

Yeah let's chery pick stats. Right now Plekanec's career +/- is +44.

RNH's +/- is -32. When he's Plekanec's age he should be around -200. He reached his best PPG in his first season and he never came close to that. His ppg is lower than Plekanec this year.

You really think he proved he was better than Plekanec?

In RNH's career, the Oilers have been a suspect -301...

In Plekanec's Career the Habs have been a solid +139...

This +/- stat you stated means absolutely nothing and you know it. All it proves is the average team Plekanecs has played for is better than the average team RNH has played for... Given that RNH has played for the worst team in hockey in the last 6 years it kind of means nothing.

RNH has certainly accomplished more at his age than Plekanec's did. By a metric **** ton. Considering RNH plays the most minutes at forward in the league at 23 a night, you'd expect his +/- to be 301*23/60 = -115, no? SO he is actually +83 compared to where he should be. Plekanec on the other hand playing 18 minutes a night you'd expect him to be a 139*18/60 = +43, so he is only actually +1 compared to where he should be if he was just any other player on his team.

Relative to the teams they play for RNH's +/- is way better than Plekanecs.

 

[OutForMilk]

Yeah let's chery pick stats. Right now Plekanec's career +/- is +44.

RNH's +/- is -32. When he's Plekanec's age he should be around -200. He reached his best PPG in his first season and he never came close to that. His ppg is lower than Plekanec this year.

You really think he proved he was better than Plekanec?

Right. +/- is what we should use, not career points. What exactly do you think +/- proves about single players? That they play on a good or bad team. that's it. Hasn't this been stated over and over and over again on these boards?

 

[ohmyjlord]

Like Tinordi, Leblanc, Fischer, Chipchura, ect. Who exactly has the Habs developed out of their 16-30 picks? I'm not picking on the Habs development just showing that its a total crap shoot

I get what you're saying. I based my point on the pick on...had the Canadiens offered the Oilers the #9 pick in this year's draft straight up for RNH, you don't think they would've even thought about it ?

Personally, from an outsider's standpoint, I don't see RNH as good enough of a fit in our system and in our current roster structure to even entertain the possibility of trading Sergachev for him. But seeing as the Oilers are still fairly young and deep at center, I thought it could've been something that they would've entertain. So if you add Plekanec and Markov to that, I thought it would for sure push it over the hill.

Although reading what the other member said about RNH being very good at both ends of the ice really changes my perspective on that.

 

[OutForMilk]

A team that wants to win the cup and is in need for a top4 D will give a 1st for Markov guaranteed.

You don,t need to protect him after you know?

Same for Plekanec. A team in need of a #2C that wants to make it further in the playoffs (ala Nashville for exemple) will give a 1st at the TDL for a 50-60pts C who's also a great PKer and defensive machine

Good luck with the selling off of your older players for picks. Thing is, that's not really Edm's thing right now. They're just not in that other side position, which makes this trade so stupid for them. Make sense?

 

[Samus44]

Man that's a terrible offer. We don't need a left shot dman, especially not an ancient one. We don't want an overpaid albeit solid center. We don't care about adding a pick when we're talking about dealing a top 6 center.

 

[Thebesthockey]

nathan beaulieu + sergachev + carey price

for

mcdavid and klefbom and broissoit

 

[AM]

And I thought the Hall for Larsson trade would have opened some Oilers' fans eyes.

News flash: your young but slightly fragile forwards aren't worth as much as you think they are.

The value in that trade is probably very close, but I don't see either team pulling the trigger on that one.

Wingers arent centers.

 

[Bouboumaster]

1- **** RNH, man. The difference between him and Plecks isn't Markov and a damn 1st. We don't need him, we don't want him. Unless he's taking Desharnais place. But then again, who would pay 6M for a 3rd center?

2- Even if Bergevin was crazy enough to suggest that, Edmonton just can't do it, cap wise. We'd have to take on some cape dumps.

3- Who's taking Markov's place?

4- Why Edmonton would trade RNH in a deal where the main peace is a center? It doesn't make sense. They should go for a D right away.

 

[Positive Vibes]

Not a fan of RNH not giving up a 1st(which could be higher depending on injuries this season etc) let alone adding markov and pleky to it easily a no

 

[zar]

7:06PM

Sorry, but I see a 50pts 2nd line C in the proposl, not a 60pts #1C (cause IMO, you need to reach 60 to be considred a #1C)

Proposal is pure garbage for EDM, but saying RNH is a 1st line C is not true at all. He's a good 2nd line C thats it

7:10PM

And why excatly would the Habs, at the TDL, knwoing they'll end up top10, trade that top10 pick for an undersized, weak, often injured 50pts C?

AND, give Plekanec, who's value at the TDL would prob be around a 1st pick 15-20range

AND give up Markov who'd likely also get a late 1st pick to a contender team Knwoing he's great on the PP and a proven top4D?

Thats basicly giving 3 1st round pick for RNH and that won,t happen.

Whoa... make up your mind Dr. Jekyll.

The OP was made by a Canadien fan and I accepted it... why are you trying to start a debate with me... take it up with him.

 

[Kimota]

Plekanec + Emelin for RNH