Confirmed Signing with Link: [MTL] D Kaiden Guhle signs extension with the Canadiens (6 years, $5.55M AAV; begins 2025-26)

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

At the time Markov was our "best defenseman" our other defenseman were Hamerlik, Georges and Brisebois.

NOBODIES idea of a good defense.

Subban then Weber came along and we finally got real top defensman.

If Markov is the best we hope we get out of our current crop, we're in deep shit.

Uhh prime Markov is easily a top 15 dman in the league today.

 

[HabsAddict]

If "expectations" is to have multiple guys on the Habs simultaneously in contention for the Norris, you are 100% correct that they need to be destroyed.

If any of the prospects gets to peak Andrei Markov, you should be thrilled as a Habs fan.

No, I have other Hab defenseman at their peak that I put ahead to WAY ahead of Markov.

Robinson
Lapointe
Savard
Chelios

The problem here is that people memory/knowledge doesn't go back far enough to the truly greats. Mine goes to JC Tremblay making forwards look foolish and steady Laperriere. I remember arguing if Ted Harris was good enough to be a hab.

Given a 60+ year HABS history, I never saw so many young defenseman with so much promise at the same time period. Of course they won't all succeed, but I love to see them try.

Come back in 5 years and you can tell me how far off I am....

 

[HabsAddict]

Uhh prime Markov is easily a top 15 dman in the league today.

Today....

 

[Frank Drebin]

Prime Markov was the best defender Habs have had since Chris chelios
This guy outta his mind

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

No, I have other Hab defenseman at their peak that I put ahead to WAY ahead of Markov.

Robinson
Lapointe
Savard
Chelios

The problem here is that people memory/knowledge doesn't go back far enough to the truly greats. Mine goes to JC Tremblay making forwards look foolish and steady Laperriere. I remember arguing if Ted Harris was good enough to be a hab.

Given a 60+ year HABS history, I never saw so many young defenseman with so much promise at the same time period. Of course they won't all succeed, but I love to see them try.

Come back in 5 years and you can tell me how far off I am...

If you're that old are you sure you'll be here in 5 years? ;o)

Agree the pipeline looks good. Just consider though that if you are comparing the kids to some combination of HOfers at the lower end and legitimately top 5-10 dmen OF ALL TIME. I like Guhle and think he has a ton of potential, but when a poster (not you) says that he is already better than Markov defensively, I wonder if the water supply has been tainted with LSD.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I guess 35 years of mediocrity has destroyed some peoples expectations.​

Didn't they win a Cup in 1993 ?

 

[HabsAddict]

If you're that old are you sure you'll be here in 5 years? ;o)

Agree the pipeline looks good. Just consider though that if you are comparing the kids to some combination of HOfers at the lower end and legitimately top 5-10 dmen OF ALL TIME. I like Guhle and think he has a ton of potential, but when a poster (not you) says that he is already better than Markov defensively, I wonder if the water supply has been tainted with LSD.

Don't worry, my dad lived to 103. If I see a cup in that time period is another matter.

Obviously I don't "expect" any of them will be HOF. I like to dream that they can be, but then there is reality.

As for Markov, I hit a nerve but is suspect it's because people simply weren't around when the Habs had a teamful of HOF. For me calling Markov one of the greats needs a qualifier that few people here can recall.

Players like Guhle are showing very high level of defensive play but that is just half the equation. To rise to star level he also needs to add an offensive dimension that he hasn't shown as part of his common play. That can in part because he need to baby sit Matheson adventures. And/ or part can be playing on his off wing.

We won't know what we have until pieces fall in line for the team and the players. The true level of the players will take at least 3 years and more like 5 to settle into their "level". Then there are circumstances. If Hutson is the real deal then Guhle would be the natural fit. Guhle will pile up points simply because being a partner to an offensive dynamo.

Lastly, a lot of offensive defenseman had slow starts to their offensive careers. Chara offense was an offensive joke for his first 3 years. JC Tremblay was a 30 odd pointer until he broke out a decade later. Obviously players need to have the tools, but also the circumstances to release them.

 

[dgibb10]

You do realize Markov made Mike freakin Komisarek look like the 2nd coming or Chris Pronger right...

The only reason Komisarek hot that contract with the Leafs is Markov

If by "look like the second coming of chris pronger" you mean they got significantly outshot and outchanced while on the ice together, sure.

Give the credit to Carey Price and Halak for the ridiculously good goaltending they gave Komisarik in an era where people were still convinced +/- was the best way to measure defensive ability

 

[dgibb10]

Markov was a better player than Mcdonagh WHILE Mcdonagh was in his prime and Markov was a 31+ player. During his prime, Markov was only bested by Lidstrom, Chara and Weber. You have to stop this.

You mention Dan Girardi and I would raise you Mike Komisarek.

Markov put up significantly worse possession numbers, analytical results, all while putting up less points and goals at even strength, in significantly easier minutes, while not being good on the PK (compared to McDonagh who was one of the leagues best in that area).

The only area Markov was better was as a PP QB

I assume you refer to 2013-2017 as when they shared the league with markov being 31+.

And at that point, Markov wasn't even leading an above average PP anymore

MTL's PP ranked 23rd in the league from 2013-2017 with Markov at the helm.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Just to clarify, the "all time greats" were the guys you mentioned (Savard,etc).

Glad Habs fans have something to look forward to. It has been too long, and the league is better when the Habs are competitive.

 

[HabsAddict]

Just to clarify, the "all time greats" were the guys you mentioned (Savard,etc).

Glad Habs fans have something to look forward to. It has been too long, and the league is better when the Habs are competitive.

Thank you....and I feel privlidged to have seen them.

 

[Bouboumaster]

IMO Prime Subban and Weber were better but he still was a machine

 

[jfhabs]

IMO Prime Subban and Weber were better but he still was a machine

Yes, but PK peaked very high but it didn't last long. If it wasn't for injuries Markov would've had well over 1,000 games while PK only played 834. His peak lasted roughly 6 years while Markov stayed a very good defender for 10+ years, I think I'd pick him over Subban in hindsight.

Weber is just another animal because of his leadership qualities and intimidating factor.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Yes, but PK peaked very high but it didn't last long. If it wasn't for injuries Markov would've had well over 1,000 games while PK only played 834. His peak lasted roughly 6 years while Markov stayed a very good defender for 10+ years, I think I'd pick him over Subban in hindsight.

Weber is just another animal because of his leadership qualities and intimidating factor.

If both were at the same age, I think I'd pick Subban, but barely

Subban peaked higher, but he fell off the cliff fast

Markov was way more consistant but he was made of glass at the end, missing entire years

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Yes, but PK peaked very high but it didn't last long. If it wasn't for injuries Markov would've had well over 1,000 games while PK only played 834. His peak lasted roughly 6 years while Markov stayed a very good defender for 10+ years, I think I'd pick him over Subban in hindsight.

Weber is just another animal because of his leadership qualities and intimidating factor.

I'm not a huge Olympic hockey fan, probably because during my fandom I have felt that Team Canada was always an overwhelming favorite which reduced the drama for me. From watching those games just as a hockey fan the last couple of times I was always amazed how Weber was IMO by far and away the best d-man on those Canadian Olympic teams, even though he had never won the Norris. I saw him play a lot in Nashville, and always respected his game, but not sure if he just completely raised his game to another level during the Olympics, or I didn't fully appreciate him in the NHL. Really an interesting player IMO.

 

[Jared Dunn]

I'm not a huge Olympic hockey fan, probably because during my fandom I have felt that Team Canada was always an overwhelming favorite which reduced the drama for me. From watching those games just as a hockey fan the last couple of times I was always amazed how Weber was IMO by far and away the best d-man on those Canadian Olympic teams, even though he had never won the Norris. I saw him play a lot in Nashville, and always respected his game, but not sure if he just completely raised his game to another level during the Olympics, or I didn't fully appreciate him in the NHL. Really an interesting player IMO.

If he wasn't in Nashville, or came to Montreal about 2 years sooner, he'd have a Norris imo. He went up against some crazy EK seasons and whatnot but he absolutely should have some hardware

 

[danisonfire]

January 12, 2010.

The Montreal Canadiens' power play is back and now all the club has to do is get other teams to start taking more penalties.

The unit languished near the bottom of the league in power-play success early in the season after point man Andrei Markov was injured. But Montreal is back atop the 30-team NHL in power-play efficiency at 24.6 per cent.

Montreal has been especially strong on the road, having scored on 33.8 per cent of its opportunities.

With Markov on the left point, Montreal has been at or near the top in power-play scoring for the last several years. Most of the forwards have changed, and there has been a succession of shooters on the right point, but the Russian veteran's vision and creativity are the constant.

It started when big-shooting Sheldon Souray was on the right point and had 26 goals in 2006-07 before jumping to the Edmonton Oilers as a free agent.

Then Mark Streit took over and had a career year of 62 points in 2007-08 before he signed a hefty free-agent contract with the New York Islanders.

The Canadiens looked dead in the water when Markov was injured, but it prompted general manager Bob Gainey to sign free-agent Marc-Andre Bergeron on Oct. 6. He has turned out to be just the shooter the team missed

https://thehockeynews.com/news/montreal-canadiens-in-familiar-territory-leading-nhl-in-power-play-success

 

[NikolaTesla]

January 12, 2010.

The Montreal Canadiens' power play is back and now all the club has to do is get other teams to start taking more penalties.

The unit languished near the bottom of the league in power-play success early in the season after point man Andrei Markov was injured. But Montreal is back atop the 30-team NHL in power-play efficiency at 24.6 per cent.

Montreal has been especially strong on the road, having scored on 33.8 per cent of its opportunities.

With Markov on the left point, Montreal has been at or near the top in power-play scoring for the last several years. Most of the forwards have changed, and there has been a succession of shooters on the right point, but the Russian veteran's vision and creativity are the constant.

It started when big-shooting Sheldon Souray was on the right point and had 26 goals in 2006-07 before jumping to the Edmonton Oilers as a free agent.

Then Mark Streit took over and had a career year of 62 points in 2007-08 before he signed a hefty free-agent contract with the New York Islanders.

The Canadiens looked dead in the water when Markov was injured, but it prompted general manager Bob Gainey to sign free-agent Marc-Andre Bergeron on Oct. 6. He has turned out to be just the shooter the team missed

https://thehockeynews.com/news/montreal-canadiens-in-familiar-territory-leading-nhl-in-power-play-success

Exactly this. Markov made so many average players filhty rich hahaha.

 

[danisonfire]

IMO Prime Subban and Weber were better but he still was a machine

Markov at the tail end of his career was the one feeding Subban at the point on the PP and EV. Subban put up a lot of the points in those career years because of Markov. Just like the other random D who Markov turned into "stars".

In this case however, Markov benefited equally from Subban's talent as well. I made a thread several months before Subban won the Norris outlining how good his season was and why he should win it. That is how much I liked Subban. He never would have hit those highs without Markov. I wish we could have seen them both in their prime at the same time. Markov's best years were behind him.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Markov was very understated. No he typically didn't flatten people but that's not a pre requisite to being a good dman.... nobody knocks nick lidstrom for that.

This play is markov in a nutshell. People remember the deke, but look where it all started, and then look at how the chance started. I have no idea how markov was able to keep that puck onside, and that was his game..... out of the spotlight, and quietly effective.

what a pass by the general WOW

 

[FerrisRox]

Markov was a damn good defenseman but I wouldn't raise him to anywhere near Weber and even prime Subban level.

This is an absurd claim.

Right now the Habs have a pile prospects that may be better then Markov level. Guhle is already better then Markov defensively and in a few years, pile more points.

This is another absurd claim.

 

[HabsAddict]

This is an absurd claim.



This is another absurd claim.

Nice chat. Glad i don't care.

Ignored...

 

[BLONG7]

Markov put up significantly worse possession numbers, analytical results, all while putting up less points and goals at even strength, in significantly easier minutes, while not being good on the PK (compared to McDonagh who was one of the leagues best in that area).

The only area Markov was better was as a PP QB

I assume you refer to 2013-2017 as when they shared the league with markov being 31+.

And at that point, Markov wasn't even leading an above average PP anymore

MTL's PP ranked 23rd in the league from 2013-2017 with Markov at the helm.

This period, was our #1 Centre was the HOF Davey Desharnais.............there was one point where this C went 55 games in a row not scoring on a PP............................and Papa Therrien continued his usage for years............................so I would be more apt to blame Desharnais and Therrien, than Markov....

It was.....the worst rinse and repeat cycle for years of a bad PP. This, was not because of Markov.

 

[BLONG7]

If both were at the same age, I think I'd pick Subban, but barely

Subban peaked higher, but he fell off the cliff fast

Markov was way more consistant but he was made of glass at the end, missing entire years

It was not at the end of his career, but in the middle he missed a ton of time.
2009 to 2012 he was always hurt.
At the end of his time in Montreal he played almost every game the last 4-5 seasons.....his career almost in three stages, but 11 out of 14 years, he was healthy almost all the time.............those years in the middle he had some strange and decimating injuries.

Check the stats on Hockey DB.

As for who, I pick Markov over Subban every time...........and I loved Subban. Markov was steady eddie making everyone around him better. But man, Subban had some serious Flash to his game!

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Nice chat. Glad i don't care.

Ignored...

You cares enough to answer...