Confirmed Trade: [MTL/CBJ] Patrik Laine, '26 2nd for Jordan Harris

[dgibb10]

This you?



Because I think you're going to have to show your work and understanding of LTIR considering the total number of bonuses Montreal could have (from Slafkovsky, Guhle, Struble, Hutson, L. Tuch, Farrell, F. Xhekaj, Beck, Kidney, Reinbacher and Engstrom) is less than half that.

Unless you're not differentiating between off-season LTIR and in-season LTIR (as Montreal doesn't need to use off-season LTIR given that they can exceed the cap by 10% before the season and can paper enough players to the AHL before the season to be cap compliant entering the season and then place Price on LTIR in-season) and not realizing that Montreal will have ample LTIR room to deal with injuries in-season.

Yes, the potential extra 1 mill along with laine's massive 8.7 mill salary (this is the key part), could be a massive detriment to a team potentially trying to compete next year if he doesn't work out.

They don't have to be in offseason LTIR though, they can send one of Anderson or Gallagher + Struble down and be compliant on day one

Once again, nobody has said they won't be cap compliant.

They will simply be over the 88 mill limit and so using LTIR relief, preventing them from accruing cap space

 

[pth2]

I'm NOT saying Laine is a cancer in the locker room, but many hear arguing that if Laine can disrupt team culture then it wasn't a strong culture in the first place, doesn't fully understand how a locker room cancer works. They don't infect the entire team all at the same time, they infect one, and then they both infect another, and its spreads from there.

And I repeat I don't believe Laine is a locker room cancer, but the risk is there regardless, even if unlikely.

There are legit risks, but I think they are very acceptable. When adding high end talent, for zero asset cost, with zero long term commitment, there's a lot more upside than downside.

But him being a cancer, always injured, or some massive opportunity comes up that can't be seized because cap room wasn't available are all possible, just like he could score 40 twice and leave as a UFA. But crossing the street has risks, too.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Yes, the potential extra 1 mill along with laine's massive 8.7 mill salary (this is the key part), could be a massive detriment to a team potentially trying to compete next year if he doesn't work out.


Once again, nobody has said they won't be cap compliant.

They will simply be over the 88 mill limit and so using LTIR relief, preventing them from accruing cap space

Sometimes it's okay to just stop talking

 

[RickyLafleur]

I legit can't tell if you're positing something completely absurd or if this is merely incoherent babbling.

We don't exactly have any nativist movements going on here.

must be cosplaying as bernmeister or mulletman

 

[CDN24]

Nobody is saying they won't be able to ice a compliant roster.

I am saying that, because they will be using LTIR throughout the season, they will not accrue cap space, meaning any ELC bonuses earned by Slaf, Hutson, or Guhle will rollover and count on the 25-26 cap. Just like how last years ELC bonuses are on this years cap for MTL. This may come into play when they try and contend again in 25-26, or 26-27 (assuming the same scenario with using price LTIR occurs again in the last year of prices deal)

And my post explained to you why having 2024-25 bonus roll over is no big deal as there is plenty of space in 25-26 to cover them. We understand how LTIR works, you can't seem to understand why it is no big deal and certainly not a reason to not acquire Laine.

There will be room to absorb 2024-25 bonus in 2025-26. Once Price is off the books then there is no longer an issue.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Yes, the potential extra 1 mill along with laine's massive 8.7 mill salary (this is the key part), could be a massive detriment to a team potentially trying to compete next year if he doesn't work out.


Once again, nobody has said they won't be cap compliant.

They will simply be over the 88 mill limit and so using LTIR relief, preventing them from accruing cap space

No, you're right. In that scenario, Montreal's 8-12ish mil in cap space (depending on if the cap rises and by how much) plus a potential 10 mil in LTIR room and no must sign UFAs (and only Primeau as an RFA of note) is not nearly enough room to improve a team in the offseason. If you don't have 30 mil in flexibility, you're screwed.

 

[dgibb10]

And my post explained to you why having 2024-25 bonus roll over is no big deal as there is plenty of space in 25-26 to cover them. We understand how LTIR works, you can't seem to understand why it is no big deal and certainly not a reason to not acquire Laine.

There will be room to absorb 2024-25 bonus in 2025-26. Once Price is off the books then there is no longer an issue.

If you are trying to compete, the assumption is spending to the cap. At which point, a million here or there can make an impact, and 8.7 mill if used poorly can have a massive impact.

If MTL fans are saying that they aren't trying to win in the next 2 years, that's okay.

At which point you are taking on a 17 mill cap dump from CBJ. And that's okay.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

If you are trying to compete, the assumption is spending to the cap. At which point, a million here or there can make an impact, and 8.7 mill if used poorly can have a massive impact.

If MTL fans are saying that they aren't trying to win in the next 2 years, that's okay.

At which point you are taking on a 17 mill cap dump from CBJ. And that's okay.

You don't understand the point mtl fans are making.



We. Do. Not. Care. about 8.7 million.

Would you rather us spend that on a #4D and a bottom 6 player? Then we wouldn't be *wasting it* in your eyes.



Its either Laine works out or "Oh no Laine sucks.....anyways......moving on "

 

[pth2]

You don't understand the point mtl fans are making.



We. Do. Not. Care. about 8.7 million.

Would you rather us spend that on a #4D and a bottom 6 player? Then we wouldn't be *wasting it* in your eyes.



Its either Laine works out or "Oh no Laine sucks.....anyways......moving on "

He seems to think that if Laine works out, scores 30 in a high end complementary role, and then re-signs, that Montreal should have just waited 2 years to sign him.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

He seems to think that if Laine works out, scores 30 in a high end complementary role, and then re-signs, that Montreal should have just waited 2 years to sign him.

There's actually more upside to bringing laine in , reviving his career and getting his value up , than using that 8.7 on some meaningless UFA's for the next two years.


Guy is totally out to lunch , the fact he is talking about Laine taking opportunity off the team is even funnier when his argument is we should use that money elsewhere , like on 2-3 players who would take up even more opportunity spots than Patrick

 

[Captain97]

If you are trying to compete, the assumption is spending to the cap. At which point, a million here or there can make an impact, and 8.7 mill if used poorly can have a massive impact.

If MTL fans are saying that they aren't trying to win in the next 2 years, that's okay.

At which point you are taking on a 17 mill cap dump from CBJ. And that's okay.

Or they are trying to add a young top 6 player (Laine is 26) and because he is overpaid they got him for basically free in terms of assets.

The Habs with Laine will have about 17-20 million In cap space. It's difficult to acquire young players you can't do 30 million worth in one off season it has to be done in parts.

Regarding the ELC bonuses, it is not an issue if the Habs have a 1-3 million dollar Bonus penalty next year because even if they do, they could still sign a $14 million player and field a full roster.

 

[LaMasquerade]

It is touching to read how deeply concerned some (one?) posters are about Habs cap space and chances of being competitive in coming years. Almost feels that instead of a player they had traded just for negative cap space without realizing their error.

I'm pretty sure guys like Hughes and MSL know what they're doing, and after having interviewed Patrik and gone through his medical details they decided that the price tag is correct. Of course only future will tell how this pans out, but there's non-zero likelihood that he'll have bounce back season. Just watched the 26m interview and I'm way more positive about this than before..

 

[Voight]

Except Montreal wasn't on his no trade list per all reports so no that isn't what happened.

They were the only team able and willing to take his full cap hit. So yes, they ere his only option.

If Columbus was willing to retain, there may have been more interest.

 

[dgibb10]

There's actually more upside to bringing laine in , reviving his career and getting his value up , than using that 8.7 on some meaningless UFA's for the next two years.


Guy is totally out to lunch , the fact he is talking about Laine taking opportunity off the team is even funnier when his argument is we should use that money elsewhere , like on 2-3 players who would take up even more opportunity spots than Patrick

Not what I have said at all.

My statement was:

-taking on risky and expensive contracts as cap dumps is not a new or genius idea
-MTLs large budget gives them a lot more leeway compared to other cellar dwellers like SJS and Anaheim rn
-taking on 17 million in money is not risk free
-this could have an impact on future years due to LTIR rollovers (especially if bonuses add up with all of MTLs rookies)

Then, a MTL fan made the claim that a rebuilding team's primary focus should be getting the kids opportunities.

I responded by pointing out adding Laine actually takes opportunities away from MTLs kids.

I have questioned the value that a supposed hometown discount will provide beyond the 2 years he is contracted for.

And I have had to inform a shockingly high number of MTL fans who don't understand how LTIR works.


In fact, I like the move for MTL. The upside is there with laine to be an EV scorer and PP weapon better than anyone currently on their roster. It fills a hole. And, if things go well, Laine can help them push for the playoffs next year.

I am simply not going to pretend that bringing in a guy with laine's history and paying him 17 million dollars carries no risk.

 

[Natey]

It is a 17 million dollar gamble. The gamble is that that money could have been used much better elsewhere, either by signing UFAs, taking on other cap dumps for more than just a 2nd, or buying more term on RFAs.

And again, since, as I've been told a number of times, the goal for MTL is to start competing for the playoffs in 25-26.

Laine pushes MTL into LTIR use, and so because of that may add as much as 10 million dollars to MTLs 25-26 cap.

Again, the money doesn't matter. Molson doesn't care about burning some cash is makes the team better long term.

And even if the goal to start competing next year, we have enough money coming off the books that Slafkovsky is fine. And our Top-6 add will be Demidov.

Using LTIR leaves you with tiny cap charges depending on bonuses. Nothing else. There's no chance $10 million gets pushed. So again, the cap space from this is a non-issue.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Man i swear,in every habs thread, you know dgibb10 will be there saying bad things about them with his "advance stats" theory.

so true

 

[Chose]

Not what I have said at all.

My statement was:

-taking on risky and expensive contracts as cap dumps is not a new or genius idea
-MTLs large budget gives them a lot more leeway compared to other cellar dwellers like SJS and Anaheim rn
-taking on 17 million in money is not risk free
-this could have an impact on future years due to LTIR rollovers (especially if bonuses add up with all of MTLs rookies)

Then, a MTL fan made the claim that a rebuilding team's primary focus should be getting the kids opportunities.

I responded by pointing out adding Laine actually takes opportunities away from MTLs kids.

I have questioned the value that a supposed hometown discount will provide beyond the 2 years he is contracted for.

And I have had to inform a shockingly high number of MTL fans who don't understand how LTIR works.


In fact, I like the move for MTL. The upside is there with laine to be an EV scorer and PP weapon better than anyone currently on their roster. It fills a hole. And, if things go well, Laine can help them push for the playoffs next year.

I am simply not going to pretend that bringing in a guy with laine's history and paying him 17 million dollars carries no risk.

And I think every habs fan acknowledged the risk, but consider it low since it is for only two years.
The habs will have the cap space for bonus rollovers, this was answered by some already.
Also, Laine is taking opportunity from who during those 2 years, while you agree there was a hole at that position ?

 

[dgibb10]

And I think every habs fan acknowledged the risk, but consider it low since it is for only two years.
The habs will have the cap space for bonus rollovers, this was answered by some already.
Also, Laine is taking opportunity from who during those 2 years, while you agree there was a hole at that position ?

I have seen the words "no risk" from at least 5 different habs fans regarding this trade.

They will certainly be able to afford the rollovers, but, if they begin spending to the cap as they enter their contention window, it may come into play somewhat. It is something to consider.

Again, I like the move. Someone else claimed that the important thing during a rebuild was to give as much opportunities to the kids as possible, and I simply pointed out how adding laine takes PP minutes away from 1 of Dach or Slafkovsky (hot take, I'd take Caufield off PP1 instead if you want the best 5 possible out there and have Laine as your sniper, but I think that is an unlikely thing to occur)

 

[CTHabsfan]

In fact, I like the move for MTL. The upside is there with laine to be an EV scorer and PP weapon better than anyone currently on their roster. It fills a hole. And, if things go well, Laine can help them push for the playoffs next year.

I am simply not going to pretend that bringing in a guy with laine's history and paying him 17 million dollars carries no risk.

Why do you find it necessary to make multiple posts about this being a risky move for the Canadiens if you like the trade? We all know there's risk, something that can be said for every signing and trade, however the risk here is minimal.

 

[MXD]

If you are trying to compete, the assumption is spending to the cap. At which point, a million here or there can make an impact, and 8.7 mill if used poorly can have a massive impact.

If MTL fans are saying that they aren't trying to win in the next 2 years, that's okay.

At which point you are taking on a 17 mill cap dump from CBJ. And that's okay.

You're not contractually mandated to post about things you don't understand and can't possibly understand.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Not what I have said at all.

My statement was:

-taking on risky and expensive contracts as cap dumps is not a new or genius idea
-MTLs large budget gives them a lot more leeway compared to other cellar dwellers like SJS and Anaheim rn
-taking on 17 million in money is not risk free
-this could have an impact on future years due to LTIR rollovers (especially if bonuses add up with all of MTLs rookies)

Then, a MTL fan made the claim that a rebuilding team's primary focus should be getting the kids opportunities.

I responded by pointing out adding Laine actually takes opportunities away from MTLs kids.

I have questioned the value that a supposed hometown discount will provide beyond the 2 years he is contracted for.

And I have had to inform a shockingly high number of MTL fans who don't understand how LTIR works.


In fact, I like the move for MTL. The upside is there with laine to be an EV scorer and PP weapon better than anyone currently on their roster. It fills a hole. And, if things go well, Laine can help them push for the playoffs next year.

I am simply not going to pretend that bringing in a guy with laine's history and paying him 17 million dollars carries no risk.

Thanks for this exhaustive recap of most of your non-points in your previous 50 posts.

It's kinda like watching a comedy trailer with just the funny bits in it.

 

[Razamanaz]

Whatever are ya even cryin' about Montreal if Patrik Laine flops?!

For Christ sake you (Habs) landed only one lousy place over stinkin' Columbus last NHL-season, remember?!

And you got the dollar. Montreal.

Whatever could go more wrong?!

Simple solution - bring in hard Laine ...

 

[pth2]

And I think every habs fan acknowledged the risk, but consider it low since it is for only two years.
The habs will have the cap space for bonus rollovers, this was answered by some already.
Also, Laine is taking opportunity from who during those 2 years, while you agree there was a hole at that position ?

The real risks are Laine underperforming, which we can deal with, or Laine having one good season, extending on a (say) 5x6.5M contract that seems like a bargain, but isn't when injuries and locker room issues pop up. But really, these are generic risks with all expensive players.

 

[dgibb10]

Why do you find it necessary to make multiple posts about this being a risky move for the Canadiens if you like the trade? We all know there's risk, something that can be said for every signing and trade, however the risk here is minimal.

Because I saw a number of posts claiming this trade had 0 risk, which I disagreed with.

"We all know there's risk" directly contradicts the countless posts from MTL fans claiming the exact opposite, that this trade is risk free.

 

[LOFIN]

Because I saw a number of posts claiming this trade had 0 risk, which I disagreed with.

"We all know there's risk" directly contradicts the countless posts from MTL fans claiming the exact opposite, that this trade is risk free.

It's semantics. Kinda like with what we have been dealing with the offer sheets by STL to Edmonton. Are they risky? Yes. Can St. Louis afford the risk? Yes.

There is not a single formula to determine that contract or trade X is universally bad. It all depends on the teams involved, and their unique situation.