Post-Game Talk: Mouse

[Deleted member 23124]

I was pissed when we let him go years ago. He was very good here.

Especially after they gave Boyle the same money.

 

[RickChartraw]

Anton Strahlman was just put on waivers. I'd seriously consider him as a nice upgrade for the 6th D spot.

should have never let him go

 

[chosen]

Depending on what u get in return. And again i dont think he will ever amount to more than a second pairing dman who will drive us nuts with “potential” but never quite fully puts it together.

He put it together in the 2nd half and playoffs last year. Giving up on him 20 games later makes no sense to me.

 

[chosen]

That's a byproduct of his scoring going back up. +/- is just as much offense.

Ovechkin posted some of the worst shots against and xG against metrics on record under Trotz.

You really believe that Trotz put restrictions on every Capitals player, but Ovechkin? I'm not sure how that could work unless Ovechkin spent the whole game hanging and I don't think Trotz, or any other coach, would do that.

Hughes was handed the keys. That's the difference. Saying Hughes wasn't "developed" by the Devils literally misses the entire point of everything you said before that. If Hughes was not trusted with big minutes, and not on the top powerplay, how effective do you think he'd be right now? Anywhere near where he is at? It's highly doubtful

Hughes and other young, talented players always see top minutes when the players around them suck.

You believe that if Laf was drafted by Jersey, he'd be Hughes, now?

No effin way.

 

[Machinehead]

You really believe that Trotz put restrictions on every Capitals player, but Ovechkin? I'm not sure how that could work unless Ovechkin spent the whole game hanging and I don't think Trotz, or any other coach, would do that.

Yes.

 

[chosen]

I get the logic that people say every coach sucks, but does it make more sense to say every player sucks? I think that makes less sense just based on the sample size.

Prospects should be inherently hit or miss. There's way too much miss (and way too much hit on teams like NJ) to think it's completely random and that development is entirely up to the personnel.

I could agree that spinning their wheels on another coach is going to be the same result, but I would at least like to see an effort made on improving prospect turnover.

They always had the excuse that they were limited at the draft in terms of quantity and quality of picks. As it turns out, that hasn't changed anything.

I never said every player sucks.

There are good and bad players on the Rangers.

The Rangers have gotten very unlucky that the years they got very high picks were not the best years to get those picks, although I do believe Kakko will end up a 60-point scorer and possibly better.

At some point, nearly everyone should come to the conclusion that coaches are mostly interchangeable, although some can temporarily help a team, otherwise some coaches would never leave some teams, but they almost all get fired because it's easier to fire the coach than for a GM to say "I screwed up".

 

[Machinehead]

Ovechkin does spend the whole game hanging.

He's one of the worst defensive players of all-time (although he's not as bad as that stain Draisaitl).

 

[Machinehead]

I never said every player sucks.

There are good and bad players on the Rangers.

The Rangers have gotten very unlucky that the years they got very high picks were not the best years to get those picks, although I do believe Kakko will end up a 60-point scorer and possibly better.

At some point, nearly everyone should come to the conclusion that coaches are mostly interchangeable, although some can temporarily help a team, otherwise some coaches would never leave some teams, but they almost all get fired because it's easier to fire the coach than for a GM to say "I screwed up".

Coaches are mostly interchangeable but there's a lot that goes into development besides the coach.

 

[chosen]

You are making the point that good coaches can improve the system which helps the players, even the stars.

In the case of the Devils, not only do they have good young players (nobody said they didn't). They are also playing a system that facilitates the style of their kids. The Rangers want their players to facilitate the playing style. The Rangers have it backwards.

The talent on Jersey absolutely dwarfs the talent on the Rangers, right now.

Ruff is the same coach that achieved next to nothing most of his career.

He hasn't changed. His personnel has.

 

[Taluss]

Our season rests on the next 8 games.

We should have no problem mopping the floor the next 3 but we all know it's unlikely to happen, with this team finding ways to lose. Would 4pts be acceptable? vs OTTx2 and Chicago? I guess for this teams current standards... but it should be all 6pts.. I do not care how, just win.

The following 5 games will truly determine the seasons success IMO. This will be the barometer and measuring stick of the team
vs STL
@ VGK
@ COL
vs NJD
vs TOR

what's acceptable? 8pts+ would be promising and would have the team back on track. 6pts is ok, I guess... anything less and we're missing the playoffs.

You got to go 2/3 the next 3 games. Anything less is unacceptable.

For the next 5 Id be happy go win 3/5. Kinda expecting 2/2/1. But i agree, those games will say a lot

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Coaches are mostly interchangeable but there's a lot that goes into development besides the coach.

I agree with the bolded for the most part, but I do believe there can be a right coach at the right time.

When Tortorella was hired, he was the right coach for THAT particular lineup. After he wore out his welcome, AV was the right coach (for that first year he took over from Torts) where he allowed the players more creativity after Torts had instilled his "lunchpail" mentality on the team. As time went on and Tort's teachings had less and less of an influence, AV became the wrong coach pretty quickly.

How do you find the right coach for the right time? Beats the shit out of me - maybe it's catching lightning in a bottle.

 

[chosen]

This is such a blatant lie. Jack Hughes did not come into this league lighting it on fire like a Mcdavid or a Matthews. He scored 21 points in 61 games. Which was infact less then Kakko (both had very poor rookie seasons for top pick standards). The Devils gave Hughes more opportunities to grow and develop into the star player of his team meanwhile the Rangers forced Kakko to work mostly on the defensive side of his games. And the results can be seen, Hughes has become one of the best young talents in the league while Kakko struggles to do the most basic things offensively at times. So please spare me that their development has nothing to do with the end results we currently see. The rangers had 4 straight top 10 picks, including 2 cant miss guys, and not a single one has turned into what was expected you can’t sit here and tell me this isnt an organizational issue.

So, you believe that Laf and Kakko would be the equivalent of Hughes, now, if their teams were reversed?

I don't.

If McDavid were drafted by the Rangers do you think he'd be playing like Laf and Kakko, now?

I don't.

Fox was in the same boat as Laf and Kakko. Didn't seem to hinder him, much.

Players are responsible for how they perform.

 

[chosen]

If you put Hughes on the Rangers from the beginning, I could see him being better than Lafreniere and Kakko have been on the Rangers, but there's just no way he is what he's been on the Devils.

Why would he be? Why would I believe that? I'm 31 years old and I've never seen this team draft a forward that becomes as good as Jack Hughes is now. Hell, my father hasn't seen it.

Are we just the unluckiest team in the world that all the bad personnel keeps ending up here?

It's been a dozen coaches between you and your dad. All of them hindered development?

Hughes is a blossoming superstar. I don't care who coached him. He would have been great no matter what.

Are you saying that Fox is great because he's not a forward?

You have said. I believe, that every NHL team would have taken Laf and Kakko if they had those picks. That's just bad luck, although Kakko will blossom into a very good hockey play. If the Rangers deal him, this board will be moaning for years.

 

[chosen]

Hughes was handed the keys. That's the difference. Saying Hughes wasn't "developed" by the Devils literally misses the entire point of everything you said before that. If Hughes was not trusted with big minutes, and not on the top powerplay, how effective do you think he'd be right now? Anywhere near where he is at? It's highly doubtful

Handed the keys is incredibly inaccurate.

In his 1st season, 5 or 6 forwards got more ice time per game than he did.

In his 1st season, 7 forwards got more ice time than Kakko.

In his 1st season, 7 forwards got more ice time than Laf.

Management bringing in the coaches and the personnel is the problem. Management and coaches have put square pegs in round holes and wonder why it doesn't work. The Ranger management approach is to then throw out the square peg and bring in a new square peg in the hope it is a round peg.

The Devils have put round pegs in round holes this season. Strange how that works.

The Devils have better personnel and are better.

Funny how that works.

 

[chosen]

Coaches are mostly interchangeable but there's a lot that goes into development besides the coach.

Besides the player, himself, what?

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Ovechkin does spend the whole game hanging.

He's one of the worst defensive players of all-time (although he's not as bad as that stain Draisaitl).

This was in a playoff game with the Rangers up 3-2 LMAO

 

[CLW]

The talent on Jersey absolutely dwarfs the talent on the Rangers, right now.

Ruff is the same coach that achieved next to nothing most of his career.

He hasn't changed. His personnel has.

Brunette joined and brought the Florida game with him. That's why they got him. Not hard to figure out.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Hughes in tracking to be a superstar. I don't think Laf or Kakko were destined to be that level of player. But I sure as hell believe they are/were destined to be what Hischier is now. The fact that neither is remotely close is a massive indictment on the organization.

Do the players deserve some of the blame? Absolutely. How much? Extremely hard to tell from a distance. But the fact that none of Anderson, Kravtsov, Kakko, or Laf have developed into impact players at the NHL level makes it hard for me to believe that the org isn't mostly to blame.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Hughes in tracking to be a superstar. I don't think Laf or Kakko were destined to be that level of player. But I sure as hell believe they are/were destined to be what Hischier is now. The fact that neither is remotely close is a massive indictment on the organization.

Do the players deserve some of the blame? Absolutely. How much? Extremely hard to tell from a distance. But the fact that none of Anderson, Kravtsov, Kakko, or Laf have developed into impact players at the NHL level makes it hard for me to believe that the org isn't mostly to blame.

Who knows.

The way Kakko was playing at the worlds that year, it was a real solid debate as to who would go #1, he or Hughes. I remember hoping the Devils would take Hughes because I felt Kakko would be a more dominant player lol. I still think Kakko can mature into a very effective player but he's a very different player than Hughes. Obvious.

In the end I'd like to say that Kakko is the type of player you need to win in the playoffs while Hughes is the one to get you there. Im not sure if he would hold up under the physical stress of multiple playoff series. We will find out.

He is tearing it up and looking like a superstar level player. No doubt.

As far as Laf and the Rangers org goes? I dont even want to think about it anymore. My brain hurts. The whole thing pretty much sucks and is a smelly dumpster fire. I dont even think finding the correct blame matters at this point. Yes theres still time... lots of it. Just becoming apathetic as hell about it. Think im repressing rage.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Who knows.

The way Kakko was playing at the worlds that year, it was a real solid debate as to who would go #1, he or Hughes. I still think Kakko can mature into a very effective player but hes a very different player than Hughes.

In the end I'd like to say that Kakko is the type of player you need to win in the playoffs while Hughes is the one to get you there. Im not sure if he would hold up under the physical stress of multiple playoff series.

He is tearing it up and looking like a superstar level player. No doubt.

As far as Laf and the Rangers org goes? I dont even want to think about it anymore. My brain hurts. The whole thing pretty much sucks and is a smelly dumpster fire. I dont even think finding the correct blame matters at this point. Yes theres still time... lots of it. Pretty much sucks right now

Agree across the board. But I will say, from the org's perspective, there are easy next steps that practically every other team in the league would have done starting on day 1:

1. Play the kids in the top 6, and stop putting guys like Vesey and Goodrow there instead. Don't remove all semblance of accountability, don't keep them there indefinitely if they're floundering, but at least afford the kids the same level of patience as you're giving the vets.

2. Give the kids substantial PP time. Take Trocheck off of PP1. Give PP2 some starts and split the time much more evenly.

The fact that we haven't even tried these two things and we're 3 and 4 years into Laf & Kakko's careers makes me think our team is run by Ned Flanders' beatnik parents.

 

[leetch99]

Hughes and Nico are both painting bigger targets on themselves by the game . They both like to dance through the middle recklessly and it is only a matter of time before one or both are severely injured by doing so . It is coming .....both guys very slight of frame and no amount of gear will protect them . See Paul Kariya for a refresher paul kariya stevens - Google Search

 

[EdJovanovski]

Hughes and Nico are both painting bigger targets on themselves by the game . They both like to dance through the middle recklessly and it is only a matter of time before one or both are severely injured by doing so . It is coming .....both guys very slight of frame and no amount of gear will protect them . See Paul Kariya for a refresher paul kariya stevens - Google Search

Yea I’m glad our top picks are all busts, would hate for them to dance through everybody with the puck, they might get injured!

 

[egelband]

Reading this forum depresses me like no other. The NY blood in me boils watching these games. We are much better than this. A part of me thinks we will sort this out, so I am going to give it until the end of December before I give in to the negativity here. I feel we will turn things around and there is still time. Maybe being a foolish optimist but this team cannot be this bad.

I feel the same. They’re absolutely playing poorly and out of synch. But I also see plenty of good play. I am hopeful the leaders show some pride and the good play starts taking over.

 

[egelband]

Kakko with Zibanejad and Kreider was great, because of play style. You have two strong players on the wall who can win pucks and a shooter in Zibanejad who doesn't like to get his nose dirty and now doesn't have to do the boards work.

Chytil, Panarin, and Kravtsov all *can* think the game unconventionally, so they are good fits together. In very limited time together, I've always liked the Panarin Chytil chemistry (this observation goes back years).

Gauthier, Trocheck, and Lafreniere are the north-south line. Tro and Gauthier both like to drive the net, great, maybe that'll create some space and opportunities for Laf off the rush instead of Laf having to play like a third line grinder all the time.

Panarin-Chytil-Kravtsov
Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko
Laf-Trocheck-Gauthier
Blais-Goodrow-Vesey

These are and should be the lines for the next 10 games to see what you've got.

I was thinking similarly but with Trocheck between Panarin and Kravtsov. But you might be on to something, Chytil there might be better. And I like Trocheck between Kreider and Gauthier, a lot.

 

[Hisch13r]

Hughes in tracking to be a superstar. I don't think Laf or Kakko were destined to be that level of player. But I sure as hell believe they are/were destined to be what Hischier is now. The fact that neither is remotely close is a massive indictment on the organization.

Do the players deserve some of the blame? Absolutely. How much? Extremely hard to tell from a distance. But the fact that none of Anderson, Kravtsov, Kakko, or Laf have developed into impact players at the NHL level makes it hard for me to believe that the org isn't mostly to blame.

I mean Nico's arguably been the better player this year. He's pacing for 90+ and should be top 2 in Selke running. He's turning out better than expected and looks like a bonafide (at minimum) top 10 C. The hype for Laf was probably somewhat near this sort of level but I wouldn't say Kakko's was