Most overrated player in the NHL?

[Another Empty Netter]

Based on reputation at one point, contract and assets given for him....

Pierre Luc Dubois

What an absolute bum.

Bag Skate and healthy scratch him for the next 7 years

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Auston Matthews is one of.
- he scores goals and points when ever he feels like it, plays well when he haves the correct feel

 

[Aurinko]

Points production is a major part of contract price, so hockey being a game of mistakes, any expensive D or F bleeding defense for offence is a good candidate for being overrated. Even better if you happen to be one of the expensive players whose production consistently drops in the playoffs.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Pastrnak

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Zibanejad. Many still think he’s a good 1C when he’s not

 

[Fatass]

Zegras.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Zibanejad. Many still think he’s a good 1C when he’s not

Was he ever a good 1C? Seriously, I like his game/personality, but he’s always underwhelmed in playoffs, and defense isn’t exactly his specialty, so..

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Oh my god, the apologies! Are you related to Matthews or something? What are you talking about Matthews showing up? Marner is a star, Matthews is a true superstar, yet Marner is outproducing Matthews in the playoffs and still gets more shit for it.

Matthews is held without points in more than 50% of all the playoff games he ever laced up for. In the last two games of every series that he's played, he's 7+4 for 11 points in 18 games! HOW is that a guy showing up? He's not even a 60 point player over 82 games!

Marner is taking so much shit when Matthews is the guy who truly deserves it. He's supposed to lead this team in the playoffs and he's a no-show most of the time.

So Biff,

Have you changed your opinion yet?

 

[Buck Naked]

So Biff,

Have you changed your opinion yet?

No. Matthews held scoreless yet another game and shows again that he's not a big game player. Still fail to see why Marner is the only person on this team who should face harsh criticism. They all do.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No. Matthews held scoreless yet another game and shows again that he's not a big game player. Still fail to see why Marner is the only person on this team who should face harsh criticism. They all do.

Biff,

Matthews had a great assist in the goal. He won game two for them. Nylander was great this series, just like I told you - their best playoff player.

You really didn’t learn anything from this series?

It’s very clear that the Leafs have pieces that they can build on. Matthews, Nylander, Knies… but they’ve got to dump Marner and Tavares. Unfortunately for Toronto, it’s no easy task.

 

[Buck Naked]

Biff,

Matthews had a great assist in the goal. He won game two for them. Nylander was great this series, just like I told you - their best playoff player.

You really didn’t learn anything from this series?

It’s very clear that the Leafs have pieces that they can build on. Matthews, Nylander, Knies… but they’ve got to dump Marner and Tavares. Unfortunately for Toronto, it’s no easy task.

But you've made it clear that assists doesn't count. It's all about goal scoring, wasn't that how you concluded that Marner was bad in the playoffs even though he had more points than Matthews and Nylander? But of course you make an exception for Matthews, why am I not surprised? The best goal scorer on the planet who is held to the amazingly high standard of "at least he tried" or "he had a great assist on the team's only goal in a game 7".

I agree that Nylander's been pretty good, especially in game 6. No one is held from criticism on a team that can't score more than two goals a game in the playoffs though. They all should feel ashamed about their level of play in the post season.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

But you've made it clear that assists doesn't count. It's all about goal scoring, wasn't that how you concluded that Marner was bad in the playoffs even though he had more points than Matthews and Nylander? But of course you make an exception for Matthews, why am I not surprised? The best goal scorer on the planet who is held to the amazingly high standard of "at least he tried" or "he had a great assist on the team's only goal in a game 7".

My issue with Marner is that he ONLY provides assists. And they never come in key moments. It’s not that they don’t count, but it’s ALL he does. And they’re usually the variety of a pass back to the point.

Moreover, my issue with him - as I told you - was that he always screws up on the game winning goal. He had an over the glass penalty vs Montreal that led to a game winner. Was on the ice for two more. Same thing last year. Same thing tonight.

And again…. He doesn’t show up when they need him. Disappears when it matters and he predictably did it again. Matthews won game two by himself and had a beautiful setup tonight. Like I told you, he’s not great but at least he shows up.

I agree that Nylander's been pretty good, especially in game 6. No one is held from criticism on a team that can't score more than two goals a game in the playoffs though. They all should feel ashamed about their level of play in the post season.

As I told you, Nylander is their best and always has been. Matthews is good but not great but at least shows up. Marner not only doesn’t show up, he chokes in key moments.

Exactly as I told you is how it played out.

 

[Buck Naked]

My issue with Marner is that he ONLY provides assists. And they never come in key moments. It’s not that they don’t count, but it’s ALL he does. And they’re usually the variety of a pass back to the point.

Moreover, my issue with him - as I told you - was that he always screws up on the game winning goal. He had an over the glass penalty vs Montreal that led to a game winner. Was on the ice for two more. Same thing last year. Same thing tonight.

I've never said he was good. I've never defended his level of play. All I've pointed to is that he's not the only bad one.

And again…. He doesn’t show up when it matters. Disappears when it matters and he predictably did it again. Matthews won TO a game by himself and had a beautiful setup tonight. Like I told you, he’s not great but at least he shows up.

Like I said, Nylander is their best and always has been. Matthews is good but not great but at least shows up. Marner not only doesn’t show up, he chokes in key moments.

Exactly as I told you.

Well, again. If the standard to which you hold the highest paid player in the league, the best goal scorer in the world, is "at least he shows up" rather than SCORE A f***ING HATTRICK IN AN IMPORTANT GAME FOR ONCE YOU LOSER, then I don't know what to say. Matthews got one goal in his last 10 playoff games. ONE!! Stop excusing this guy! He's paid to outscore every damn player on the planet and he's turning into a pumpkin as soon as the going gets tough! He's outscored by Evgeny Kuznetsov in this year's playoffs. Miles Wood. Nikita Zadorov. Josh Manson. Should I continue?

He's not good. When Matthews is not scoring more than a goal every 10 games, he's choking just as hard as Marner. If not more.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I've never said he was good. I've never defended his level of play. All I've pointed to is that he's not the only bad one.

Biff, that’s not all you said.

Well, again. If the standard to which you hold the highest paid player in the league, the best goal scorer in the world, is "at least he shows up" rather than SCORE A f***ING HATTRICK IN AN IMPORTANT GAME FOR ONCE YOU LOSER, then I don't know what to say. Matthews got one goal in his last 10 playoff games. ONE!! Stop excusing this guy! He's paid to outscore every damn player on the planet and he's turning into a pumpkin as soon as the going gets tough! He's outscored by Evgeny Kuznetsov in this year's playoffs. Miles Wood. Nikita Zadorov. Josh Manson. Should I continue?

George is getting upset.

Nobody disagrees that Matthews isn’t great. But he’s not terrible either. Mitch Marner is terrible. He’s always been terrible and he was terrible again this series and tonight. The highlight of his series was him throwing a tantrum and throwing his gloves.

It’s uncanny how he’s always on the ice for the winning goal. Every single time.

He's not good. When Matthews is not scoring more than a goal every 10 games, he's choking just as hard as Marner. If not more.

Last week you were screaming that Nylander sucked in the playoffs. I told you he’s actually pretty good but you wouldn’t have it. And you’ve screamed repeatedly at Matthews…

Nylander’s a solid player in the postseason. Hopefully you see that now. Matthews is good but I agree could be a lot better. Matthews 4 pts in 5 games and they were all important. Nylander 3 goals in 4 games, all important. Marner 3 points in 7 - can we remember any of them? He had one good game this series and was invisible for the rest. Please go watch him coasting behind Pasta (his man) on the series winning goal.

Nobody (other than Tavares) are anywhere close to being in the same stratosphere of badness as Marner. He’s God awful.

 

[Buck Naked]

George is getting upset.

You at least get a point for good taste in television.

Last week you were screaming that Nylander sucked in the playoffs. I told you he’s actually pretty good but you wouldn’t have it. And you’ve screamed repeatedly at Matthews…

Nylander’s a solid player in the postseason. Hopefully you see that now. Matthews is good but I agree could be a lot better.

Neither of them are anywhere close to being in the same stratosphere of badness as Marner. He’s God awful.

You're definitely putting words in my mouth here. Doubt that I specifically targeted Nylander and called him bad. I've continuously said that this entire core gotta step up. Just because Nylander scores goals in the last two games of the series doesn't excuse him. He just came from a 98 point season. 3 points in 4 games is not good enough. He's part of the core that can't drag themselves to score more than two goals in a game. It's just not good enough. I agree though that out of the four or five core players, he's showing up the most, especially in comparison to Marner and Matthews.

I still fail to see how you can call Matthews good, however. Look what the other players of his caliber are doing as soon as they get to the post season.

Draisaitl
MacKinnon
McDavid
Kucherov
Makar
Rantanen
Tkachuk
Eichel

They step up. They don't take huge steps down. Isn't Matthews supposed to hang with those guys? I see people claiming he's a top 2-5 player in this league all the time. So why isn't he held to the same standards? They would all be slaughtered on HF if they produced on Matthews' level. No one would claim "at least they showed up". That's only Mr-outscored-by-Brayden-McNabb Matthews.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You at least get a point for good taste in television.



You're definitely putting words in my mouth here. Doubt that I specifically targeted Nylander and called him bad. I've continuously said that this entire core gotta step up. Just because Nylander scores goals in the last two games of the series doesn't excuse him. He just came from a 98 point season. 3 points in 4 games is not good enough. He's part of the core that can't drag themselves to score more than two goals in a game. It's just not good enough. I agree though that out of the four or five core players, he's showing up the most, especially in comparison to Marner and Matthews.

I still fail to see how you can call Matthews good, however. Look what the other players of his caliber are doing as soon as they get to the post season.

Draisaitl
MacKinnon
McDavid
Kucherov
Makar
Rantanen
Tkachuk
Eichel

They step up. They don't take huge steps down. Isn't Matthews supposed to hang with those guys? I see people claiming he's a top 2-5 player in this league all the time. So why isn't he held to the same standards? They would all be slaughtered on HF if they produced on Matthews' level. No one would claim "at least they showed up". That's only Mr-outscored-by-Brayden-McNabb Matthews.

1. The comparison was not between Matthews and McDavid. If it was, you'd have gotten no argument from me.
2. The comparison was between Matthews (and also Nylander) vs Marner. I tried to tell you the other two were better but you weren't having it.
3. 'Good' is a relative term. As I've said, Matthews could be and should be better. But he's not terrible. He at least shows up and produces. Not to the extent that a player of his caliber should but at least he plays some good hockey.
4. I told you Nylander was a strong playoff player and you ripped me. You were unequivocally wrong and he just proved it again.
5. Most importantly, I came in and said Marner was the clear choice for this thread. You jumped all over me as I tried to explain to you that he's eons worse than any other Leaf (Tavares not included.) I told you that he only produces assists. Only produces in non elimination games. (I honestly can't remember a single big goal or point he's ever had in the playoffs.) And I told you that Marner chokes in big moments and always seems to be on the ice when big game winning goals are scored. It happens repeatedly and it happened again tonight.

So... give your anti-Matthews rhetoric a rest. And next time somebody says something you don't agree with, maybe you should hear them out first before saying their opinion is dumb. Maybe next time... do the opposite.

Have a nice night.

 

[Buck Naked]

1. The comparison was not between Matthews and McDavid. If it was, you'd have gotten no argument from me.
2. The comparison was between Matthews (and also Nylander) vs Marner. I tried to tell you the other two were better but you weren't having it.
3. 'Good' is a relative term. As I've said, Matthews could be and should be better. But he's not terrible. He at least shows up and produces. Not to the extent that a player of his caliber should but at least he plays some good hockey.
4. I told you Nylander was a strong playoff player and you ripped me. You were unequivocally wrong and he just proved it again.
5. Most importantly, I came in and said Marner was the clear choice for this thread. You jumped all over me as I tried to explain to you that he's eons worse than any other Leaf (Tavares not included.) I told you that he only produces assists. Only produces in non elimination games. (I honestly can't remember a single big goal or point he's ever had in the playoffs.) And I told you that Marner chokes in big moments and always seems to be on the ice when big game winning goals are scored. It happens repeatedly and it happened again tonight.

So... give your anti-Matthews rhetoric a rest. And next time somebody says something you don't agree with, maybe you should hear them out first before saying their opinion is dumb. Maybe next time... do the opposite.

Have a nice night.

1. Then I assume that the next time you rank players, you'll put Matthews in the same tier as Marner, and not the best players in the league. Seeing as who's standards he's being held to.
2. Because you put all of them in a vacuum. I agree that Matthews was better than Marner. But the bar is set so much higher for Matthews, so him scoring 1 goal in the last 10 playoff games should maybe be compared to the expecations of a player of his caliber rather than Marner, who is supposed to be worse since he's not as good of a player.
3. Yes, compared to expecations you should be able to have on a player like that, he's been horrible. Showing up and producing far, far, far, far, far under your standard is not enough when you're about to become the highest paid player in the league. Matthews' bar should be set at at least 1.5 points per game at this stage of the playoffs. Just like it is for McDavid, MacKinnon, and Draisaitl, the players he should be competing with. He shouldn't be competing with Brock Nelson and Anton Lundell in ppg.
4. Three points in four games is probably not what I would call strong from a player who just signed a $92 million contract. He showed up and scored goals in important games, yes. That's good. But again. What about eight points in four games? Like the actual great players are doing. The problem seems to be that the expectations of this Leafs core are so low that just scoring a goal is enough to shield them from criticism. Had the Oilers been bounced in the first round and Draisaitl walked away with 3+0 and McDavid with 1+4 in seven games, they would've been absolutely torn to shreds.
5. I've never disagreed with that. I've just said that there's more of them.

Anti-Matthews. Yeah, holding one of the best players of this generation to some sort of standard sure is so anti. As long as he gets respect in the handshake line I guess he's good enough in your eyes. That, I will always call dumb.

No, you have a nice night! It's morning here in Sweden but I'll take it.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Morgan Rielly. Guy has a reputation for being a good defenseman off of secondary assists feeding Nylander, Matthews and Marner. Absolutely atrocious defender and sneakily bad in transition.

 

[bert]

Hellebuyck

 

[LuGBuG]

Zegras.

Lol Zegras mentally owns you I think.

 

[My3Sons]

No. Matthews held scoreless yet another game and shows again that he's not a big game player. Still fail to see why Marner is the only person on this team who should face harsh criticism. They all do.

And you want to be my latex salesman.

 

[elmaco]

PLD for sure, AINEC

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

1. Then I assume that the next time you rank players, you'll put Matthews in the same tier as Marner, and not the best players in the league. Seeing as who's standards he's being held to.

I think Matthews is in the upper tier of players. But I consistently put him at the bottom of that tier for one reason - the playoffs. That's it. That's what separates him from Kucherov, Drai, Mackinnon...

McDavid is in a tier all his own.

2. Because you put all of them in a vacuum. I agree that Matthews was better than Marner. But the bar is set so much higher for Matthews, so him scoring 1 goal in the last 10 playoff games should maybe be compared to the expecations of a player of his caliber rather than Marner, who is supposed to be worse since he's not as good of a player.

Okay, well that's progress because you didn't seem to acknowledge that Matthews was better earlier. In fact you screamed he wasn't.

And yeah, I agree that Matthews should be a better player for his skills and have said so all along. But he's not the terrible player that you painted. He's an underperformer but he's at least still useful to his team in the playoffs.

Mitch Marner is a black hole.

Two very different things.

3. Yes, compared to expecations you should be able to have on a player like that, he's been horrible. Showing up and producing far, far, far, far, far under your standard is not enough when you're about to become the highest paid player in the league. Matthews' bar should be set at at least 1.5 points per game at this stage of the playoffs. Just like it is for McDavid, MacKinnon, and Draisaitl, the players he should be competing with. He shouldn't be competing with Brock Nelson and Anton Lundell in ppg.
4. Three points in four games is probably not what I would call strong from a player who just signed a $92 million contract. He showed up and scored goals in important games, yes. That's good. But again. What about eight points in four games? Like the actual great players are doing. The problem seems to be that the expectations of this Leafs core are so low that just scoring a goal is enough to shield them from criticism. Had the Oilers been bounced in the first round and Draisaitl walked away with 3+0 and McDavid with 1+4 in seven games, they would've been absolutely torn to shreds.
5. I've never disagreed with that. I've just said that there's more of them.

It's not uncommon for players to have a drop in the playoffs. It's what happens to most players actually. But Matthews drops too much.

Again, big difference between 'he should do better' vs 'he's horrible.'

Anti-Matthews. Yeah, holding one of the best players of this generation to some sort of standard sure is so anti. As long as he gets respect in the handshake line I guess he's good enough in your eyes. That, I will always call dumb.

No, you have a nice night! It's morning here in Sweden but I'll take it.

Again, 'good' is a relative term. Do I think Matthews is 'good' in the sense that he helps his teams in the playoffs? Yes, absolutely. But I also think he's an underperformer who needs some good runs to help his reputation. And let's be fair, he wasn't well this series.

As for you being Anti-Matthews... your posts certainly indicate you are. You seem to be backpeddling a little now which is good but your rantings from earlier suggest you've got a real problem with this guy. Holding him to a higher standard is fine, saying he should be better is fine. Nobody disagrees. But he's not horrible the way you painted him to be. And there's a massive difference between him and Marner which is what I've been trying to tell you for a while now.

I think it's pretty clear that - so far anyway - I've been right on this. That doesn't mean Marner can't flip the script next year. And if he does, I'll revise my opinion. But let's be honest here, I don't see how he isn't by far their worst playoff player. He's never shown up when they've needed him.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Matthews needs to step it up in the playoffs. 69 in the regular season, just 1 in 7 games this playoffs. But I will give him some slack because he did play injured this playoffs and wasn't anywhere close to 100%.

 

[VainGretzky]

Matthews's stats in elimination games are 8 gp 1 g 3 a pts 4 .50 player when it matters most