Player Discussion Morgan Rielly

[Fogelhund]

Considering his boneheaded mistakes on empty net goals and shorthanded goals against, it doesn't surprise me he's got the highest minus of any other players on the ice at those times. I agree that +/- isn't a tell-all stat on a players' defensive acumen, but in Rielly's case, it is a reflection of what a shitty defender he is. But hey, you're entitled to think he's having a decent season defensively, just be aware that is a minority opinion from not just HF board members, but the hockey community.

I just think waving around a -14 is disingenuous, and doesn't prove the point you think it does. That isn't to say I've ever thought he was great defensively. I'd also point out that his On Ice Expected Goals is positive... Now, that doesn't take into context moments when he absolutely gives up high danger chances against either.

I think this article on him from today is pretty accurate.

Maple Leafs Notebook: Rielly’s new help, Minten’s second shot

Whether he’s adjusting to Berube’s system, his first season as a father, or a carousel of partners, the bottom line is that Morgan Rielly is still searching for his A game. Luke Fox provides updates on the D-man, Minten's second chance and much more.

www.sportsnet.ca

Whether he’s adjusting to Craig Berube’s new dump-and-chase system, his first season as a father, or a constant carousel of partners, the bottom line is that Rielly is still searching for his A game.
“We’ve asked (for) less risk in his game. I think he’s trying to do that, and he’s done that for the most part. But we also need him to produce offensively,” said Berube, who has been encouraging all his blueliners to get more active and fire more pucks.
“So, I think you'll see his production go up a little bit.”
Rielly, 30, is on pace for 37 points this season. He put up 58 last season. His career best is 72 (in 2018-19).
Rielly dip in production has coincided with a team-worst minus-14 rating and a 9-58 takeaway-to-giveaway ratio. This despite leaving the toughest forward matchups to McCabe and Chris Tanev and starting a career-high 66.3 per cent of his shifts in the offensive zone.
Berube has had conversations throughout the season with Rielly about the coach’s power-play personnel decisions.
Rielly began the season quarterbacking PP1 but has been passed over on a five-forward top unit in favour of Matthew Knies and now Bobby McMann.
“He’s a great team guy, and he’s all about the team,” Berube said of Rielly. “So, he handles it pretty well. I’m sure he doesn’t like it. I’m sure he wants to be there, like any player would want to be there, but he understands. And he’s at a point in his career where he just wants to win.”
He will play his off-side, which he did well for stretches last season. McCabe says it requires a little more communication and more skating.
“Mo, his whole career, (has shown) a tremendous ability to move up into plays and find those soft areas and the second attack and second layers and be an option for our forwards,” McCabe says. “I’m just excited to play together.”
Berube has been careful to never criticize Rielly’s struggles at the podium.
On Monday, he instead emphasized how much he likes Oliver Ekman-Larsson and Tanev together and McCabe’s proficiency on the right.
“Morgan’s had a lot of partners this year, and it’s not his fault or anybody’s fault,” Berube said. “It’s just how things go with injuries and finding a right-shot guy to play over there.”
The Leafs may need to look outside the organization for that guy (Luke Schenn?), but regardless if that happens, Rielly knows he needs to find his stride.

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[Ports]

Leafs management is softer that it's core. They cater to them instead.

Nothing to suggest otherwise to this point. Tampa, Boston or Vegas wouldn’t hesitate to move from him.

 

[Ports]

Buyout is not the answer. How about holding a veteran accountable and putting him in a position where he'll be more likely to succeed?
Giving him a better partner in McCabe is a start.

The press box then. 12 years of not succeeding is enough time to know what he is. At $7.5M they shouldn’t need to find the perfect partner for him. Too many excuses made for nice guy Morgan. Unfortunately nice guys finish last or in this case winning one play round in a 12 year career.

 

[baton elevated]

Nothing to suggest otherwise to this point. Tampa, Boston or Vegas wouldn’t hesitate to move from him.

They are like the Steelers, too afraid to make the right decisions

 

[Fogelhund]

The press box then. 12 years of not succeeding is enough time to know what he is. At $7.5M they shouldn’t need to find the perfect partner for him. Too many excuses made for nice guy Morgan. Unfortunately nice guys finish last or in this case winning one play round in a 12 year career.

Rielly isn't going anywhere this year, certainly not the press box. What he can do, and has done isn't replaceable at this time. He's still put up 21 points, in his last 25 playoff games... Yes, he's having a down year, but to have a complete lack of patience for a player to turn it around is silly. We will need all of our players playing well, when the playoffs hit.. Rielly included, but to think we are better off with Myers or Timmins in the lineup, in lieu of Rielly, is delusional at best.

You think us not winning a cup for 12 years, is Rielly's fault? LOL I mean, he's been our best D for most of that time, and continues to be... which of course isn't necessarily a great thing. Us not winning a cup isn't just on him. When we extended him, I thought maybe we should have moved in a different direction, but here we are, and the best thing for us to do NOW, is to find the perfect partner for him... Try and maximize the assets that you do have.

If we fail in the offseason, that's another conversation... how do you move on, and improve the team, as there aren't many options available as a Free Agent that do that.

But for now, Rielly is just another player, that Leafs fans leach onto, and make the scapegoat. It's always been that way... probably always will be. Rielly has proven time and again, he can be one of our best players. No, he isn't playing that way right now, but we need him to get back to that, to have success. Do what's necessary, to put him in a position of success.

 

[Ports]

Rielly isn't going anywhere this year, certainly not the press box. What he can do, and has done isn't replaceable at this time. He's still put up 21 points, in his last 25 playoff games... Yes, he's having a down year, but to have a complete lack of patience for a player to turn it around is silly. We will need all of our players playing well, when the playoffs hit.. Rielly included, but to think we are better off with Myers or Timmins in the lineup, in lieu of Rielly, is delusional at best.

You think us not winning a cup for 12 years, is Rielly's fault? LOL I mean, he's been our best D for most of that time, and continues to be... which of course isn't necessarily a great thing. Us not winning a cup isn't just on him. When we extended him, I thought maybe we should have moved in a different direction, but here we are, and the best thing for us to do NOW, is to find the perfect partner for him... Try and maximize the assets that you do have.

If we fail in the offseason, that's another conversation... how do you move on, and improve the team, as there aren't many options available as a Free Agent that do that.

But for now, Rielly is just another player, that Leafs fans leach onto, and make the scapegoat. It's always been that way... probably always will be. Rielly has proven time and again, he can be one of our best players. No, he isn't playing that way right now, but we need him to get back to that, to have success. Do what's necessary, to put him in a position of success.

Being critical of poor play is not scapegoating a player but there are fans who like players more than the team and are blinded by that. Rielly gets 66% zone starts and yet his takeaway / giveaway ratio is 9/58. Think about that. That’s objective data and is quite frankly shocking. The eye test tells us he’s been bad. But that stat pretty much sums up what a lot of more objective fans have been saying for years. He can’t be relied on defensively. He’s by far their worst defender and since he can’t run a PP his value is highly diminished. There’s no other way to put it. BTW, Myers and Timmins play RD. Benoit is LD and would replace Rielly. At least he hits people and keeps the net front clear.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Being critical of poor play is not scapegoating a player but there are fans who like players more than the team and are blinded by that. Rielly gets 66% zone starts and yet his takeaway / giveaway ratio is 9/58. Think about that. That’s objective data and is quite frankly shocking. The eye test tells us he’s been bad. But that stat pretty much sums up what a lot of more objective fans have been saying for years. He can’t be relied on defensively. He’s by far their worst defender and since he can’t run a PP his value is highly diminished. There’s no other way to put it.

He sure struggles in the d zone frequently. Like he tries to be everywhere and is always late. He also mishandled the puck a great deal. He has never learned to shoot the puck.
The best of Reilly
1. He skates well but so did Jake Gardiner
2. He is a class act. Proud of him as a person. (Mitchy should watch)
3. Tessa

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Buyout is not the answer. How about holding a veteran accountable and putting him in a position where he'll be more likely to succeed?
Giving him a better partner in McCabe is a start.

McCabe is doing great with hard minutes (other than the recurring brain damage) and it's nonsensical to keep putting LHD on their offside to try to make them mesh with Rielly. Brodie was a bit of an exception in that he preferred to play RD but McCabe & OEL are not that.

It's unfortunate that Tanev hasn't worked out as a partner for Rielly yet but Rielly is now getting easier minutes than usual and should be able to succeed with... well, someone better than Myers or the broken Hakanpaa. The player we should have spent Liljegren's money on.

 

[ToneDog]

McCabe is doing great with hard minutes (other than the recurring brain damage) and it's nonsensical to keep putting LHD on their offside to try to make them mesh with Rielly. Brodie was a bit of an exception in that he preferred to play RD but McCabe & OEL are not that.

It's unfortunate that Tanev hasn't worked out as a partner for Rielly yet but Rielly is now getting easier minutes than usual and should be able to succeed with... well, someone better than Myers or the broken Hakanpaa. The player we should have spent Liljegren's money on.

Problem is you have 4 LD and 3 RD and 2 of RHD are your worst dmen.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Rielly gets 66% zone starts and yet his takeaway / giveaway ratio is 9/58. Think about that. That’s objective data and is quite frankly shocking.

Takeaways/giveaways aren't objective stats - I mean yes that is objectively what websites say the stat is, but the tracking of the statistics themselves is subjective and questionable.

Having said that, Rielly's defensive metrics have been questionable for a while now, and I don't think they're qualitatively wrong.

 

[Ports]

Being critical of poor play is not scapegoating a player but there are fans who like players more than the team and are blinded by that. Rielly gets 66% zone starts and yet his takeaway / giveaway ratio is 9/58. Think about that. That’s objective data and is quite frankly shocking. The eye test tells us he’s been bad. But that stat pretty much sums up what a lot of more objective fans have been saying for years. He can’t be relied on defensively. He’s by far their worst defender and since he can’t run a PP his value is highly diminished. There’s no other way to put it. BTW, Myers and Timmins play RD. Benoit is LD and would replace Rielly. At least he hits people and keeps the net front clear. Also, you ignore how his AAV is wasted. He may have been worth his cap hit five years ago but he takes up 35% of what their total defense core is paid and is best a bottom paring defenseman on a cup contender. You’re right in that there’s nothing they can do with him this year given they would have to eat part of his salary even if he waived his NMC but they should get prepared to move on from him because his lackadaisical approach to playing defense is a terrible look and will only continue to hurt them going forward. He doesn’t care to improve his game so it won’t happen. If he did, it would have happened by now.

 

[Fogelhund]

Being critical of poor play is not scapegoating a player but there are fans who like players more than the team and are blinded by that. Rielly gets 66% zone starts and yet his takeaway / giveaway ratio is 9/58. Think about that. That’s objective data and is quite frankly shocking. The eye test tells us he’s been bad. But that stat pretty much sums up what a lot of more objective fans have been saying for years. He can’t be relied on defensively. He’s by far their worst defender and since he can’t run a PP his value is highly diminished. There’s no other way to put it. BTW, Myers and Timmins play RD. Benoit is LD and would replace Rielly. At least he hits people and keeps the net front clear.

Benoit is a LD, he's our #6 guy... remove one of the top six, and either Myers or Timmins come into the lineup.

Being critical of play is fine. Saying he must be moved, benched, bought out is frankly kind of stupid at this point in the season. It's extreme overly reactionary unstable behaviour, and ignores many players have bad stretches. He isn't being moved, let's hope he finds his game. Enough of the Sky is falling, meltdown type posting.

 

[Ports]

Takeaways/giveaways aren't objective stats - I mean yes that is objectively what websites say the stat is, but the tracking of the statistics themselves is subjective and questionable.

Having said that, Rielly's defensive metrics have been questionable for a while now, and I don't think they're qualitatively wrong.

Confusing comment but ok ?

 

[Ports]

Benoit is a LD, he's our #6 guy... remove one of the top six, and either Myers or Timmins come into the lineup.

Being critical of play is fine. Saying he must be moved, benched, bought out is frankly kind of stupid at this point in the season. It's extreme overly reactionary unstable behaviour, and ignores many players have bad stretches. He isn't being moved, let's hope he finds his game. Enough of the Sky is falling, meltdown type posting.

A buyout is an off season decision but it’s not unstable to consider all alternatives to make the team better. That is what responsible management needs to do. Not the run it back, O for He’s a Jolly Good Fellow crap some in the fan base seem to be happy with. Bad stretches don’t last years. Winning organizations like Tampa, Vegas, Florida make hard, ruthless decisions because they care about winning cups. This Leaf organization hasn’t shown that. And playing Benoit has nothing to do with having to play Myers or Timmins. Moving their best defenseman off one of the top shutdown pairs in the league to his off side to accommodate Rielly tells it all. He can’t be trusted. 10 years of looking for a partner for the guy is laughable.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Problem is you have 4 LD and 3 RD and 2 of RHD are your worst dmen.

Benoit is a worse overall player than Timmins and should be the 7D when everyone is healthy, with Tanev-(trade for someone better than Hakanpaa)-Timmins on the right side.

Confusing comment but ok ?

What's confusing about it? Other stats are more objective - there's some judgement involved in assigning shots on goal but not that much. Giveaways/takeaways are just some guy's opinion and not tracked especially reliably or consistently.

 

[Ports]

Benoit is a LD, he's our #6 guy... remove one of the top six, and either Myers or Timmins come into the lineup.

Being critical of play is fine. Saying he must be moved, benched, bought out is frankly kind of stupid at this point in the season. It's extreme overly reactionary unstable behaviour, and ignores many players have bad stretches. He isn't being moved, let's hope he finds his game. Enough of the Sky is falling, meltdown type posting.

Benoit is a worse overall player than Timmins and should be the 7D when everyone is healthy, with Tanev-(trade for someone better than Hakanpaa)-Timmins on the right side.


What's confusing about it? Other stats are more objective - there's some judgement involved in assigning shots on goal but not that much. Giveaways/takeaways are just some guy's opinion and not tracked especially reliably or consistently.

You can’t tell what is a giveaway or takeaway ? I guess everything is just some guys opinion then.

Benoit is a worse overall player than Timmins and should be the 7D when everyone is healthy, with Tanev-(trade for someone better than Hakanpaa)-Timmins on the right side.


What's confusing about it? Other stats are more objective - there's some judgement involved in assigning shots on goal but not that much. Giveaways/takeaways are just some guy's opinion and not tracked especially reliably or consistently.

Timmins isn’t an NHL defenseman. He’s soft and doesn’t use the little offensive ability he has. Benoit is physical and stands up for his teammates and goalie. Timmins will be gone after this season.

 

[Ports]

Benoit is a worse overall player than Timmins and should be the 7D when everyone is healthy, with Tanev-(trade for someone better than Hakanpaa)-Timmins on the right side.


What's confusing about it? Other stats are more objective - there's some judgement involved in assigning shots on goal but not that much. Giveaways/takeaways are just some guy's opinion and not tracked especially reliably or consistently.

Timmins isn’t an NHL defenseman. He’s soft and doesn’t use the little offensive ability he has. Benoit is physical and stands up for his teammates and goalie. Timmins will be gone after this season.

 

[Fogelhund]

Timmins isn’t an NHL defenseman. He’s soft and doesn’t use the little offensive ability he has. Benoit is physical and stands up for his teammates and goalie. Timmins will be gone after this season.

Timmins has the 4th most points/60 of our D. He's our second best goals against/60 D, while on the ice.

Benoit certainly is physical. He is also the worst of our seven D in possession, expected goals %, is the worst offensive player.

They are both limited players, for different reasons. Benoit is one of our 4 LD, the fourth best. Timmins is one of our 3 RD, the 2nd best. Benoit had a better year last year, but hasn't been good this year.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I just think waving around a -14 is disingenuous, and doesn't prove the point you think it does. That isn't to say I've ever thought he was great defensively. I'd also point out that his On Ice Expected Goals is positive... Now, that doesn't take into context moments when he absolutely gives up high danger chances against either.

I think this article on him from today is pretty accurate.

Maple Leafs Notebook: Rielly’s new help, Minten’s second shot

Whether he’s adjusting to Berube’s system, his first season as a father, or a carousel of partners, the bottom line is that Morgan Rielly is still searching for his A game. Luke Fox provides updates on the D-man, Minten's second chance and much more.

www.sportsnet.ca

Whether he’s adjusting to Craig Berube’s new dump-and-chase system, his first season as a father, or a constant carousel of partners, the bottom line is that Rielly is still searching for his A game.
“We’ve asked (for) less risk in his game. I think he’s trying to do that, and he’s done that for the most part. But we also need him to produce offensively,” said Berube, who has been encouraging all his blueliners to get more active and fire more pucks.
“So, I think you'll see his production go up a little bit.”
Rielly, 30, is on pace for 37 points this season. He put up 58 last season. His career best is 72 (in 2018-19).
Rielly dip in production has coincided with a team-worst minus-14 rating and a 9-58 takeaway-to-giveaway ratio. This despite leaving the toughest forward matchups to McCabe and Chris Tanev and starting a career-high 66.3 per cent of his shifts in the offensive zone.
Berube has had conversations throughout the season with Rielly about the coach’s power-play personnel decisions.
Rielly began the season quarterbacking PP1 but has been passed over on a five-forward top unit in favour of Matthew Knies and now Bobby McMann.
“He’s a great team guy, and he’s all about the team,” Berube said of Rielly. “So, he handles it pretty well. I’m sure he doesn’t like it. I’m sure he wants to be there, like any player would want to be there, but he understands. And he’s at a point in his career where he just wants to win.”
He will play his off-side, which he did well for stretches last season. McCabe says it requires a little more communication and more skating.
“Mo, his whole career, (has shown) a tremendous ability to move up into plays and find those soft areas and the second attack and second layers and be an option for our forwards,” McCabe says. “I’m just excited to play together.”
Berube has been careful to never criticize Rielly’s struggles at the podium.
On Monday, he instead emphasized how much he likes Oliver Ekman-Larsson and Tanev together and McCabe’s proficiency on the right.
“Morgan’s had a lot of partners this year, and it’s not his fault or anybody’s fault,” Berube said. “It’s just how things go with injuries and finding a right-shot guy to play over there.”
The Leafs may need to look outside the organization for that guy (Luke Schenn?), but regardless if that happens, Rielly knows he needs to find his stride.

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Good article, doesn't deny he's having a poor season offensively and defensively. Also doesn't gloss over the -14 or disparage it. It's just a part of the overall picture of Rielly 2024-25. As I mentioned in my earlier post, couple that with his TA/GA, and the fact he has sheltered minutes, and we see a guy who is struggling on the defensive side of the game. Any way you look at it, he has to improve and find his A game for the Leafs to have overall success. He's our most accurate puck-moving dman and we need him.

 

[nuck]

So McCabe coming in for a reset. Glad they are doing something and glad it isn't some mystery injury they are concealing.