Player Discussion Morgan Rielly

[Ports]

Since Montour has entered the league, Morgan Rielly has produced the same amount of playoff goals in less games and been a significantly better playoff point producer. Playoff point shots are very over-rated and nearly non-existant across the league. We want the puck down low more often, not at the point.

Last year was Montour's best season, by far, and Riellys playoff production was more impressive.

Keep in mind Toronto's struggles offensively and the fact that Rielly still has great playoff stats and I think you should realize he has not been the problem.

If he wasn't on the ice for the game 7 OT goal (which pretty much all the players on the ice f***ed up), he'd be getting a lot less flak. He had a very average series (poor by hid standard), but still had the same amount or more points as Marner and JT and was still tied for 2nd in points and plus/minus.

That game seven goal doesn’t even factor into my evaluation of Rielly. He’s a soft, second pairing dman on a cup contender, who is a defensive liability and can’t even quarterback a PP. His foot speed is down and he’s not creative with the puck. He’s got a good first pass and shot from 20 feet in. Leafs need way more out of a first pairing dman than he gives them.

 

[Stephen]

Since Montour has entered the league, Morgan Rielly has produced the same amount of playoff goals in less games and been a significantly better playoff point producer. Playoff point shots are very over-rated and nearly non-existant across the league. We want the puck down low more often, not at the point.

Last year was Montour's best season, by far, and Riellys playoff production was more impressive.

Keep in mind Toronto's struggles offensively and the fact that Rielly still has great playoff stats and I think you should realize he has not been the problem.

If he wasn't on the ice for the game 7 OT goal (which pretty much all the players on the ice f***ed up), he'd be getting a lot less flak. He had a very average series (poor by hid standard), but still had the same amount or more points as Marner and JT and was still tied for 2nd in points and plus/minus.

Montour has had a pretty terrible career relative to his potential, billing as a prospect in early days and bouncing around the league, but his play style, energy and recent success would be a breath of fresh air.

We’ve had Rielly in the organization for a dozen years now, and 10 on the roster. At some point you just want change for the sake of change.

 

[Ports]

Listening to Lawton this morning is further evidence for me of management's incompetence for the 5 years under Dubas. We can and we will and I bet everything on this core pretty much sums up how brilliant he was.

And “run it back” Shanahan who hired him and got duped by his theory that size and physicality didn’t matter in the playoffs. And yet Shanahan remains though hopefully not for much longer although he’s got his stooges out there in the media who make excuses for him

 

[Stephen]

That game seven goal doesn’t even factor into my evaluation of Rielly. He’s a soft, second pairing dman on a cup contender, who is a defensive liability and can’t even quarterback a PP. His foot speed is down and he’s not creative with the puck. He’s got a good first pass and shot from 20 feet in. Leafs need way more out of a first pairing dman than he gives them.

Rielly’s best trait is when he plays on pure skating and instinct and is doing his Lone Ranger rushes or joining in late as the trailing man. He’s got to be top speed, skating north with purpose to attack the net, and zero deviation from the flight path.

When he needs to go to his changeup speed, he slows down but the game doesn’t around him. He can’t command the game like that. His lateral ability is also very sluggish. His puck movement is predictable and sloppy.

Over the years he’s endeared himself as a heart and soul type player, which he is, but I don’t think it’s enough.

 

[Community]

Rielly is not strong in his role, in what he can control on the ice. Poor lateral mobility, no point shot threat, predictable puck movement, defers zone entries to others with inefficienc drop passes. Doesn’t walk the line quickly, not deceptive in change of angles. Sluggish puck movement. Add it all up, his offensive specialty isn’t all that impressive.

In terms of spreading around the blame to Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander, I have no problem with it and I’m also happy to move on from 50% of that group. Basically if we could delete Rielly, Tavares and Marner, I call that a fresh start.

Rielly has been here in the organization for 12 years already. That’s the bulk of an NHL career. I don’t think stand pat is a great idea when we’ve most likely gotten the best out of him already, and it’s never been good enough.

Not sure why you're putting thr blame on Rielly for the drop passes when that is 100% obviously a coaching directive.

Poor lateral mobility and sluggish puck movement is also not true at all. You may be confusing system with player ability. Under Keefe, we have been a possession-focused team that focuses on keeping the puck rather than forcing plays so there are a lot of times where we hold onto the puck in the d-zone as we set-up and prepare for the breakout (while the dman holds the puck), but once we are set up and start the breakout he is a good skater with a great first pass.


We've most likely gotten the best goalscoring years out of Matthews and it hasn't been enough, does that mean he should be gone too? Our whole team hasn't been good enough so why are you focusing on the one dman that's been our best playoff performer by far before this year?


Our defense needs to improve in overall 2-way play (not just defensively) and trading Rielly is a step back from that.


We are not in a position where trading three of your top players is possible or a good idea. This would be equivalent to Florida trading away Huberdeau, Bennett, and Ekblad in 2022. Instead, they traded Huberdeau and their #3ish Dman for Tkachuk and hired a new coach.

If management is ready to shake up the core, it'll be something closer to that. Marner out and new coach. That completely changed Florida's roster mentality and they didnt need to trade half the team to do it. We're extremely unlikely to have a deal work out that well for us, but that's the target. 1 core player moved out (likely Marner) and a coach with a new philosophy. DONE. JT likely re-signs cheap next year or isn't offered a new contract. Even this will be tough to do given trade market, cap hits, and contract situation.

Anything beyond that is extremely unrealistic and unlikely at best. Trying to trade players for the sake of trading players is meant for NHL 24 and not the actual NHL. Even if we could, our team would be worse not better if you moved all three of Rielly/JT/Marner this year, I guarantee.

 

[Stephen]

Not sure why you're putting thr blame on Rielly for the drop passes when that is 100% obviously a coaching directive.

Poor lateral mobility and sluggish puck movement is also not true at all. You may be confusing system with player ability. Under Keefe, we have been a possession-focused team that focuses on keeping the puck rather than forcing plays so there are a lot of times where we hold onto the puck in the d-zone as we set-up and prepare for the breakout (while the dman holds the puck), but once we are set up and start the breakout he is a good skater with a great first pass.


We've most likely gotten the best goalscoring years out of Matthews and it hasn't been enough, does that mean he should be gone too? Our whole team hasn't been good enough so why are you focusing on the one dman that's been our best playoff performer by far before this year?


Our defense needs to improve in overall 2-way play (not just defensively) and trading Rielly is a step back from that.


We are not in a position where trading three of your top players is possible or a good idea. This would be equivalent to Florida trading away Huberdeau, Bennett, and Ekblad in 2022. Instead, they traded Huberdeau and their #3ish Dman for Tkachuk and hired a new coach.

If management is ready to shake up the core, it'll be something closer to that. Marner out and new coach. That completely changed Florida's roster mentality and they didnt need to trade half the team to do it. We're extremely unlikely to have a deal work out that well for us, but that's the target. 1 core player moved out (likely Marner) and a coach with a new philosophy. DONE. JT likely re-signs cheap next year or isn't offered a new contract. Even this will be tough to do given trade market, cap hits, and contract situation.

Anything beyond that is extremely unrealistic and unlikely at best. Trying to trade players for the sake of trading players is meant for NHL 24 and not the actual NHL. Even if we could, our team would be worse not better if you moved all three of Rielly/JT/Marner this year, I guarantee.

I just don’t see what Morgan Rielly brings to the table that is a must keep and what signs he’s even a solution to all the problems we’ve seen over the years…

He’s been a Leaf for a really long time, is well liked and is signed for a really long time to come. Between those two factors, the difficulty of a no trade/no movement, I don’t see any compelling reasoning that Rielly is going to be a better defenseman at 31, 32, 33 etc. than what we’ve seen lately and he absolutely needs to be here.

Why can’t his $7.5 million be used on a bigger fish on D? Why can’t it be split up so we get two separate D? Why can’t he be moved for a younger D? Other than the fact that he’s comfortably here in Toronto, I don’t see it with Morgan.

 

[LeafEgo]

I just don’t see what Morgan Rielly brings to the table that is a must keep and what signs he’s even a solution to all the problems we’ve seen over the years…

He’s been a Leaf for a really long time, is well liked and is signed for a really long time to come. Between those two factors, the difficulty of a no trade/no movement, I don’t see any compelling reasoning that Rielly is going to be a better defenseman at 31, 32, 33 etc. than what we’ve seen lately and he absolutely needs to be here.

Why can’t his $7.5 million be used on a bigger fish on D? Why can’t it be split up so we get two separate D? Why can’t he be moved for a younger D? Other than the fact that he’s comfortably here in Toronto, I don’t see it with Morgan.

Landing an Adam Fox type is one thing - there's like 10 of those.

Short of that, if you add a high quality D man you still need Rielly. If you find two, you still need him. Something like Rielly-DeMelo-Montour.

Rielly is top 10 in D points over the last three seasons. Just last year he was conn smythe caliber in the playoffs and we're pretty short on that kind of thing.

We need numbers and Rielly is only 7.5M. How many good value high quality D man can we get?

 

[Community]

I just don’t see what Morgan Rielly brings to the table that is a must keep and what signs he’s even a solution to all the problems we’ve seen over the years…

He’s been a Leaf for a really long time, is well liked and is signed for a really long time to come. Between those two factors, the difficulty of a no trade/no movement, I don’t see any compelling reasoning that Rielly is going to be a better defenseman at 31, 32, 33 etc. than what we’ve seen lately and he absolutely needs to be here.

Why can’t his $7.5 million be used on a bigger fish on D? Why can’t it be split up so we get two separate D? Why can’t he be moved for a younger D? Other than the fact that he’s comfortably here in Toronto, I don’t see it with Morgan.

Explain to me how we are going to improve the D with moving Rielly?

You're suggesting we should be trading our #1Dman, who has been our MVP in the playoffs the last few years, to improve our D-corps. What trade/UFA signing is realistic that will improve this group and involves trading Rielly?

Trading Marner for a top pairing dman? Sure, if we can figure out a partner it might make us a more balanced team and better innthe playoffs even if our overall skill level decreases. Which defenseman is better than Rielly and available for similar/cheaper? Don't trade away our best defenseman, add somebody there to support him.

You don't think he's a #1Dman? Fine. I think he's a top 30 dman. However, our defense looks a lot better if you're able to find somebody better or equal to him to add to our defense. Replacing Rielly with a better dman would only marginally improve our defense and I dont think anybody is currently available that is indisputably better than him.

 

[Stephen]

Landing an Adam Fox type is one thing - there's like 10 of those.

Short of that, if you add a high quality D man you still need Rielly. If you find two, you still need him. Something like Rielly-DeMelo-Montour.

Rielly is top 10 in D points over the last three seasons. Just last year he was conn smythe caliber in the playoffs and we're pretty short on that kind of thing.

We need numbers and Rielly is only 7.5M. How many good value high quality D man can we get?

The way I see it, Rielly’s portfolio needs to be taken away from him. The Leafs have tried to take the PP1QB away from him in the past, trying Barrie, Sandin, Klingberg in his place and various points this season. If he doesn’t work there and isn’t getting cookies. Doesn’t defend particularly well. What is his function as a 2, 3 guy?

 

[Stephen]

Explain to me how we are going to improve the D with moving Rielly?

You're suggesting we should be trading our #1Dman, who has been our MVP in the playoffs the last few years, to improve our D-corps. What trade/UFA signing is realistic that will improve this group and involves trading Rielly?

Trading Marner for a top pairing dman? Sure, if we can figure out a partner it might make us a more balanced team and better innthe playoffs even if our overall skill level decreases. Which defenseman is better than Rielly and available for similar/cheaper? Don't trade away our best defenseman, add somebody there to support him.

You don't think he's a #1Dman? Fine. I think he's a top 30 dman. However, our defense looks a lot better if you're able to find somebody better or equal to him to add to our defense. Replacing Rielly with a better dman would only marginally improve our defense and I dont think anybody is currently available that is indisputably better than him.

If you’re planning to push Rielly, Tavares and Marner all out this summer or let them walk next summer, that’s a reallocation of $29.5 million in cap, before incoming salaries are calculated on these three players alone. Which is about 34% of an overall $88 million cap. I’m pretty sure the Leafs can figure out some warm bodies on the UFA market and trades.

 

[Community]

If you’re planning to push Rielly, Tavares and Marner all out this summer or let them walk next summer, that’s a reallocation of $29.5 million in cap, before incoming salaries are calculated on these three players alone. Which is about 34% of an overall $88 million cap. I’m pretty sure the Leafs can figure out some warm bodies on the UFA market and trades.

Warm bodies doesn't sound like an upgrade at all.

You want to spend our recouped cash by overpaying for FA? That'll really improve the team...

 

[Community]

The way I see it, Rielly’s portfolio needs to be taken away from him. The Leafs have tried to take the PP1QB away from him in the past, trying Barrie, Sandin, Klingberg in his place and various points this season. If he doesn’t work there and isn’t getting cookies. Doesn’t defend particularly well. What is his function as a 2, 3 guy?

Leafs didn't push him out for Barrie, it was widely published that he advocated for Barrie for the PP after his initial struggles.

Sandin and Klingberg were on the PP 1st unit for a very limited time and it didn't work out better than Rielly.

He's typically around a 60pt dman. That's a very valuable commodity. In addition, he is very good at transition whether you believe it or not (all advanced stats support this too).

 

[ashs]

Reilly and marner for saros and josi

 

[sunstersun]

Makar is so good it's insane.

 

[Stephen]

Warm bodies doesn't sound like an upgrade at all.

You want to spend our recouped cash by overpaying for FA? That'll really improve the team...

I want changes, and to build a new Leafs program, I don’t want to keep old retreads.

 

[Stephen]

Leafs didn't push him out for Barrie, it was widely published that he advocated for Barrie for the PP after his initial struggles.

Sandin and Klingberg were on the PP 1st unit for a very limited time and it didn't work out better than Rielly.

He's typically around a 60pt dman. That's a very valuable commodity. In addition, he is very good at transition whether you believe it or not (all advanced stats support this too).

Yes, and as a valuable commodity he should be able to return another valuable commodity to rebuild the Leafs back end.

 

[LeafEgo]

The way I see it, Rielly’s portfolio needs to be taken away from him. The Leafs have tried to take the PP1QB away from him in the past, trying Barrie, Sandin, Klingberg in his place and various points this season. If he doesn’t work there and isn’t getting cookies. Doesn’t defend particularly well. What is his function as a 2, 3 guy?

Your scathing reviews are well articulated and hard to disagree with line by line but Rielly is not useless.

He can support a balanced lineup and bring offence on a ~13M first pairing with a DeMelo type. He can do PP2.

He can support multi-dimensional attack by leading a second pairing behind a speedy Willy-Domi line. We're getting slower every year as is.

If Mitchy brings back Dahlin and we kill it in FA, that's something, but I dont see us getting through this off-season and being in a place where we're all set without Rielly. How much can you effectively replace?

Take his portfolio away but we have the time to see how he does with a new coach and a proper partner.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Your scathing reviews are well articulated and hard to disagree with line by line but Rielly is not useless.

He can support a balanced lineup and bring offence on a ~13M first pairing with a DeMelo type. He can do PP2.

He can support multi-dimensional attack by leading a second pairing behind a speedy Willy-Domi line. We're getting slower every year as is.

If Mitchy brings back Dahlin and we kill it in FA, that's something, but I dont see us getting through this off-season and being in a place where we're all set without Rielly. How much can you effectively replace?

Take his portfolio away but we have the time to see how he does with a new coach and a proper partner.

For 7.5M, we got a PP2 QB?

That is an easy no brainer to move on, you could find that for far less.

 

[horner]

Yes, and as a valuable commodity he should be able to return another valuable commodity to rebuild the Leafs back end.

You would have to retain 1.5 mil per yr to get faulty back for him.

 

[LeafGrief]

Rielly was terrible this playoffs, but of all the players on the entire freaking roster, he is the one who has earned some rope and the chance to bounce back.

He has been the one who produces real leadership when it has mattered. He has been the one to consistently raise his game in the post season. He just put up 58p in 72 games and is our only blueliner with even a single sniff of offensive talent. We all know his warts. He's not the #1 offensive god that some of us tout him as on the mains, but he plays 23 minutes a night, year in, year out, and wins those minutes. We need a Muzzin and a PP QB to take the roles from Rielly that he doesn't thrive in, but he's one of the last players we should be sending out the door.

I understand the need for accountability on this team and the need for change, but when we talk about stuff like accountability, leadership, and loyalty, there's comparisons at play. If Marner can suck for 6 years of bloated contract before getting turfed, and Rielly gets run out of town after eleven years of blood and guts, then one bad playoff where he was puck watching on the OT winner, things aren't even.

He's a 23 minutes, 40ES points defender, with low end second pairing defensive ability, and the only player in the "core" with leadership abilities. I cannot begin to describe how much of a mistake it would be to move on from Rielly now. Try this thread again when he's had a second bad playoffs.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Rielly was terrible this playoffs, but of all the players on the entire freaking roster, he is the one who has earned some rope and the chance to bounce back.

He has been the one who produces real leadership when it has mattered. He has been the one to consistently raise his game in the post season. He just put up 58p in 72 games and is our only blueliner with even a single sniff of offensive talent. We all know his warts. He's not the #1 offensive god that some of us tout him as on the mains, but he plays 23 minutes a night, year in, year out, and wins those minutes. We need a Muzzin and a PP QB to take the roles from Rielly that he doesn't thrive in, but he's one of the last players we should be sending out the door.

I understand the need for accountability on this team and the need for change, but when we talk about stuff like accountability, leadership, and loyalty, there's comparisons at play. If Marner can suck for 6 years of bloated contract before getting turfed, and Rielly gets run out of town after eleven years of blood and guts, then one bad playoff where he was puck watching on the OT winner, things aren't even.

He's a 23 minutes, 40ES points defender, with low end second pairing defensive ability, and the only player in the "core" with leadership abilities. I cannot begin to describe how much of a mistake it would be to move on from Rielly now. Try this thread again when he's had a second bad playoffs.

Last year aside, our PP has sucked in the playoffs and Rielly has been okay to good but for 7.5M you can find better, we need a more dynamic PP QB.

 

[LeafGrief]

Last year aside, our PP has sucked in the playoffs and Rielly has been okay to good but for 7.5M you can find better, we need a more dynamic PP QB.

View attachment 871531

12p in 11 games last year, 11 of them at ES. 6p(3goals) in 7 the year before, career playoff ppg of .7. Career playoff ice time average of 24:36, + player, great advanced stats. I'm sorry, "okay to good" is just not accurate, he's consistently been one of our playoff performers and was very much our best player last spring. Sucked this year and he's not great on the PP, no arguments from me there, but you cannot find many 24+ minute defenders for 7.5m.

Morgan Rielly's greatest sin is that he is not the player we wish he was. He's not a #1 defensively, and he's not a good PP QB. We do need a more dynamic PP QB, and we do need a Muzzin replacement who can be the #1 shutdown player. But Morgan Rielly the actual player is still extremely useful. He is a piece you keep and then build around, not throw out with the bath water.

 

[jiggy35]

Reilly needs an legitimate partner for once:
Roy, Tanev, Pesce, Demelo

 

[WTFMAN99]

12p in 11 games last year, 11 of them at ES. 6p(3goals) in 7 the year before, career playoff ppg of .7. Career playoff ice time average of 24:36, + player, great advanced stats. I'm sorry, "okay to good" is just not accurate, he's consistently been one of our playoff performers and was very much our best player last spring. Sucked this year and he's not great on the PP, no arguments from me there, but you cannot find many 24+ minute defenders for 7.5m.

Morgan Rielly's greatest sin is that he is not the player we wish he was. He's not a #1 defensively, and he's not a good PP QB. We do need a more dynamic PP QB, and we do need a Muzzin replacement who can be the #1 shutdown player. But Morgan Rielly the actual player is still extremely useful. He is a piece you keep and then build around, not throw out with the bath water.

For 7.5M I need a dynamic PP QB or a top end defender that can handle tough minutes, he can apparently offer neither to us.

 

[LeafEgo]

For 7.5M, we got a PP2 QB?

That is an easy no brainer to move on, you could find that for far less.

Numerous top contenders have core defenceman in that price range that play PP2 or support neither PP - Ekblad, Lindholm, Toews, Trouba.

You can only get rid of Rielly when we can walk away with a D corps that on the whole has improved significantly and is sufficient. I would be surprised if you had a realistic plan to do that this summer.

For 7.5M I need a dynamic PP QB or a top end defender that can handle tough minutes, he can apparently offer neither to us.

You might need all three and when do you get all these players?