Player Discussion Morgan Rielly

[Niagara Bill]

Morgan Rielly plays 24 minutes a night in the playoffs, is a plus player in those minutes, wins the advanced stats battles in those minutes, scores goals and has a ppg of .7, mostly from ES scoring in those minutes. His crime is that he is not Roman Josi, but he "handles" those minutes just fine.

That we need a dynamic PP QB is an argument for why Rielly should not be on the PP1, it is not an argument for why he should be traded. That we need a top end defender is not an argument for why Rielly should be traded. If we trade Rielly, we need to replace his minutes, his production, and then additionally find that PP QB and top end defender.

Frankly, the idea that Rielly isn't worth 7.5m is preposterous. The problem is that we have 40m in four forwards and Rielly has no help, so he's apparently supposed to do everything on his own for 7.5m. We never replaced Muzzin, that's not Rielly's fault.

Reilly is worth 7.5. He is just not a first pairing guy. He has no definitive skills. Skating...above average
D coverage in own zone, average
Puck carry, above average
Shot, below average
Passing...above average
Pp qb, average
Pk, below average
Dedication ...above àverage
Toughness...average
Aggressiveness...below average

I want him on my team, just not a number 1 spot.

 

[Sypher04]

Rielly is a first pairing defender every day. We can argue if he’s a #1 (not elite) or a #2 but there isn’t any question he’s a top pairing quality defenseman. Getting him a real solid top pairing quality partner to allow us to unlock his full offensive potential on the roster should have been a priority all these years. It’s not his fault he’s had to carry 4-6 quality partners virtually his entire career

 

[LeafSteel]

It is mind blowing to me how many want to dump Rielly.

Rielly is the rightful Captain of this team in every way, except the C on his jersey.

We have never given him a true RHD to really let him play his game to its fullest.

Ron fcuking Hainsey, people. Matt Hunwick, Roman Polak, Marincin, ……

Makes me wonder why the guy even re -signed with us.

He’s never had a true RHD partner that came close to him in skill.

Hes been a wasted asset here thus far.

Get him an actual RHD to play consistently with like Roy, Pesce, Weegar, and see what he really is.

Right now he is the closest we have to a #1, and he’s the guy who bleeds blue.

 

[IPS]

A PP without Marner and Rielly is gonna be a whole different dynamic.

You have to work your PP a lot differently when 2/5 guys aren't respectable shooting threats.

 

[IPS]

Rielly is a first pairing defender every day. We can argue if he’s a #1 (not elite) or a #2 but there isn’t any question he’s a top pairing quality defenseman. Getting him a real solid top pairing quality partner to allow us to unlock his full offensive potential on the roster should have been a priority all these years. It’s not his fault he’s had to carry 4-6 quality partners virtually his entire career

At 7.5 I think it's justified having him in the #2 role and maybe have him relegated to working the 2nd PP unit.

It was a bad year and a bad series for Morgan (by his standards), but he's played lots of good games in the playoffs in the past so he deserved his leeway.

 

[WTFMAN99]

A PP without Marner and Rielly is gonna be a whole different dynamic.

You have to work your PP a lot differently when 2/5 guys aren't respectable shooting threats.

The setup was awful.


Marner left half boards

Rielly can stay on the point but constantly move in case guys on the boards move it up to the point
Nylander on the point as a one time / shot threat
Matthews one time spot
Bertuzzi or Knies should have been net front guys

 

[Sypher04]

It is mind blowing to me how many want to dump Rielly.

Rielly is the rightful Captain of this team in every way, except the C on his jersey.

We have never given him a true RHD to really let him play his game to its fullest.

Ron fcuking Hainsey, people. Matt Hunwick, Roman Polak, Marincin, ……

Makes me wonder why the guy even re -signed with us.

He’s never had a true RHD partner that came close to him in skill.

Hes been a wasted asset here thus far.

Get him an actual RHD to play consistently with like Roy, Pesce, Weegar, and see what he really is.

Right now he is the closest we have to a #1, and he’s the guy who bleeds blue.

Exactly. Like seriously. He just put up 58 points in like 70 games this year dragging around the corpse of TJ Brodie all season

Hainsey, Zaitsev, Gardiner, Hunwick, Polak, Marincin, Franson, Carrick, Robidas, Gleason, Ranger, Dermott, Brewer, Fraser, Marchenko, Corrado, Timmins, Holl, Liles, Gunnarsson, Harrington, Holzer, Brodie, Lybushkin, Schenn, McCabe, Liljegren, Sandin, Giordano.

The setup was awful.


Marner left half boards

Rielly can stay on the point but constantly move in case guys on the boards move it up to the point
Nylander on the point as a one time / shot threat
Matthews one time spot
Bertuzzi or Knies should have been net front guys

Yup, bring marner in closer to the net where his shot can actually be somewhat threatening, if he takes it

 

[WTFMAN99]

Exactly. Like seriously. He just put up 58 points in like 70 games this year dragging around the corpse of TJ Brodie

Hainsey, Zaitsev, Gardiner, Hunwick, Polak, Marincin, Franson, Carrick, Robidas, Gleason, Ranger, Dermott, Brewer, Fraser, Marchenko, Corrado, Timmins, Holl, Liles, Gunnarsson, Harrington, Holzer, Brodie, Lybushkin, Schenn, McCabe, Liljegren, Sandin, Giordano.



Yup, being marner is closer to the net where his shot can actually be somewhat threatening, if he takes it

It gives him so many passing options too, he can hit Nylander or Matthews for one timers or if the net front guy skates back a bit into the bumper position, that works or if everyone is cheating pass, cut in and fire the shot, right shot on the left side of the ice is an incredibly favorable shooting angle.

 

[PromisedLand]

He's had many good playoff series but man he was absolutely brutal this time around. Just a step too slow and odd decision-making from start to finish.

It's obvious he needs a #1 D to support him. He was never capable of handling that responsibility and it will only get harder now as he begins to lose a step.

My theory is that he didn’t put in the work in the summer as he was galavanting out with his fiancé so he just couldn’t put in the work required also before boosh he played with freakin brodie and then other host of d- men

I don’t think Mo is a true #1 but he could be useful as a 2nd guy or 2nd pairing as long as his skating holds up. TBD ofcourse

 

[LeafSteel]

Exactly. Like seriously. He just put up 58 points in like 70 games this year dragging around the corpse of TJ Brodie all season

Hainsey, Zaitsev, Gardiner, Hunwick, Polak, Marincin, Franson, Carrick, Robidas, Gleason, Ranger, Dermott, Brewer, Fraser, Marchenko, Corrado, Timmins, Holl, Liles, Gunnarsson, Harrington, Holzer, Brodie, Lybushkin, Schenn, McCabe, Liljegren, Sandin, Giordano.

That is a depressing and embarrassing list, and a shining light on Dubas’ glaring weakness to ever address RHD properly.

How many of this are actual true RHD instead of LHD shifted over to their off side?

How many of those guys even belong as 3-5 D, let alone in a top pairing?

Embarrassing and maddening.

We haven’t seen what Rielly really can be, and he’s been wasted this far dragging half-assed band-aids because Dubas thought Justin Holl was All-World quality.

I have much more faith in Treliving fixing it, as long as he’s not looking through Calgary Flame alumni goggles.

 

[PromisedLand]

The best at shooting and hitting shins

Rielly’s love affair with the shin pads is legendary and long lasting.

Heck even Gardiner couldn’t teach him that it’s time to move on

 

[PromisedLand]

They need to make up a new advanced stat. "Millions wasted above expectation".

i would like to call it Dubas/60 aka how much wastage there is per 60

 

[PromisedLand]

All I’d say is that Mo did give a discount showed leadership but the forwards on the other hand……

I think we really need a D-man to help out Mo; and then we can properly analyze whether mo is really done

 

[Stephen]

Somehow people here seem to not recognize or understand that Rielly’s body of work as an offensive defenseman is significantly better than Montour’s is.

I’d be happy to add Montour at a reasonable cost to this D core, even put him on PP1, but we still need Rielly. We improve by having both. Trading Rielly out and bringing Montour in to replace would further hamper an already offensively inept backend.

Historical trends aren’t that relevant when Montour seems to be a late bloomer who has taken his game to a new level in the playoffs vs Rielly who seems to have stagnated here.

I don’t think it’s as simple as Rielly out and Montour in but just rebuild the Top 4 with some new faces and don’t be held back by what’s here.

Just need a new personality, new skillset, new outlook for that PP1QB.

 

[robertmac43]

Imagine if this guy had the oppurtunity to play with one above average RHD lol. Mo is solid and getting rid of him would be a step backwards imo.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Rielly's wheels look like they need to be inflated.

He looked pedestrian this year. Hopefully it was the injury. Without his wheels, he's at best a 2nd. pairing defender. Good size, but not physical, not great defensively, not great with his shot.

Imagine if this guy had the oppurtunity to play with one above average RHD lol. Mo is solid and getting rid of him would be a step backwards imo.

New coach, we will run it back again and again

 

[Stephen]

It is mind blowing to me how many want to dump Rielly.

Rielly is the rightful Captain of this team in every way, except the C on his jersey.

We have never given him a true RHD to really let him play his game to its fullest.

Ron fcuking Hainsey, people. Matt Hunwick, Roman Polak, Marincin, ……

Makes me wonder why the guy even re -signed with us.

He’s never had a true RHD partner that came close to him in skill.

Hes been a wasted asset here thus far.

Get him an actual RHD to play consistently with like Roy, Pesce, Weegar, and see what he really is.

Right now he is the closest we have to a #1, and he’s the guy who bleeds blue.

I'm completely disillusioned with this "Captain Morgan" mythology...

As a person, he seems more relatable, mature and/or has his head screwed on right compared with some of the high flyers in the Big 4, and is paid a modest amount of money to be here. But you add up all the hockey and all the experiences we've had over the years, I don't see him as a solution here.

So instead of going to get one of Roy, Pesce or Weegar or whatever to play with Morgan, why don't we just get a few of them and revamp the whole blueline?

 

[Stephen]

Imagine if this guy had the oppurtunity to play with one above average RHD lol. Mo is solid and getting rid of him would be a step backwards imo.

How far do we take it though? If he had a Charlie McAvoy whose coat tails he could ride to success, we'd be in the clear, right?

 

[hamzarocks]

I'm completely disillusioned with this "Captain Morgan" mythology...

As a person, he seems more relatable, mature and/or has his head screwed on right compared with some of the high flyers in the Big 4, and is paid a modest amount of money to be here. But you add up all the hockey and all the experiences we've had over the years, I don't see him as a solution here.

So instead of going to get one of Roy, Pesce or Weegar or whatever to play with Morgan, why don't we just get a few of them and revamp the whole blueline?

Weegar himself is an ass player come playoffs

He cost the panthers back to back playoffs and had to get booted off the team

I'm not against trading Rielly. But all those guys are a tier below him as a player.

Maybe adding 2 of them vs 1 Rielly makes us better, but playing in toronto market will be a tough experience for apl 3 and they are just as likely to cost you a pivotal game in the playoffs as Rielly is without lower chance of being an offensive ace to spur your scoring.

Roy just screams brodie 2.0. He will be a good #3D giving 25-30pts but he can get burnt 1 on1, against heavy forechecks and vs speedy teams.

Leafs answer to upgrading on Rielly should have been marner

Marner should have gotten a D-man at marners level and then if we needed/wanted to we could deal Rielly for a forward at Riellys level which fixes the cap allocatioj issues amongst the core

 

[Sypher04]

Historical trends aren’t that relevant when Montour seems to be a late bloomer who has taken his game to a new level in the playoffs vs Rielly who seems to have stagnated here.

I’m just saying Rielly has like 60 more points over the last 3 years while missing more games and that they are not in the same tier offensively. Offense from the backend has been a huge problem. You’re highly unlikely to get anyone who contributes more than Rielly does for an AAV much lower than he currently makes. There are players who do but I’d be shocked if any of them become available. Build around Rielly for once instead of just running him out every night with a bag of garbage chained to his foot

 

[Gabriel426]

I’m just saying Rielly has like 60 more points over the last 3 years while missing more games and that they are not in the same tier offensively. Offense from the backend has been a huge problem. You’re highly unlikely to get anyone who contributes more than Rielly does for a lower AAV than he makes. There are players who do but I’d be shocked if any of them end up available.

I think if Leafs sign Montour, Reilly's numbers will drop b/c he will no longer be on PP1.
But at the same time, his 5v5 numbers might be a lot better bc him and Montour might just be a pair that can keep the puck in ozone more than any pairs that Reilly had ever been on.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Rielly apparently being the best playoffs performer on the team isn't sufficient reason alone to keep him.

His best still wasn't good enough. They need to bring in someone up another pay grade. Of course they can't afford anyone like that.

So this pretender contender keeps wheeling out the likes of Morgan Rielly masquerading as a number one defenseman.

Bad enough on it's own. Made worse by the fact Lyubushkin is his partner. This team actually went into the playoffs with a top pair of Morgan Rielly and Ilya Lyubushkin and expected to win.

Repeat that last sentence again slowly while saying it out loud.

Sounds pretty stupid doesn't it. Not that it matters anyway. They could have six Norris winners on the team and STILL lose so long as goaltending remains the weakest link.

Upgrading from Rielly to a better defenseman isn't gonna keep Woll healthy when it matters most.

 

[Stephen]

I’m just saying Rielly has like 60 more points over the last 3 years while missing more games and that they are not in the same tier offensively. Offense from the backend has been a huge problem. You’re highly unlikely to get anyone who contributes more than Rielly does for an AAV much lower than he currently makes. There are players who do but I’d be shocked if any of them become available. Build around Rielly for once instead of just running him out every night with a bag of garbage chained to his foot

If you watch them play, it's not the same thing. Montour actually has the elite wheels, a great shot arsenal which he uses obnoxiously and hits like a freight train. He's a first pairing on a team going to the conference finals for a reason. I'm not even saying Montour is the guy to go after, but the point is he could be. Maybe we go and get Montour and Forsling? Who knows. But whatever we do, it'll be easier with Rielly moved out.

The old stuff doesn't work.

 

[Mess]

If you watch them play, it's not the same thing. Montour actually has the elite wheels, a great shot arsenal which he uses obnoxiously and hits like a freight train. He's a first pairing on a team going to the conference finals for a reason. I'm not even saying Montour is the guy to go after, but the point is he could be. Maybe we go and get Montour and Forsling? Who knows. But whatever we do, it'll be easier with Rielly moved out.

The old stuff doesn't work.

Morgan Rielly is not physical and being the point man on the PP (much like Marner) makes little to no sense when your point shots can't break a pain of glass.

Treliving attempted to address, but unsuccessfully due to injury with his Klingberg signing last summer. He was suppose to be Mo Riells PPQB1 replacement.

Watching the playoffs and seeing these Dman blasting away from the point makes so big a difference and its not hard to answer why does Leafs PP struggle come playoff time..

Wrong player personnel not wrong system !!!

So its not surprising to hear Elliot Friedman thoughts suggesting Rielly, Marner and Tavares all mentioned as winds of change potential this summer.

Leafs need to find or draft themselves a Evan Bouchard.

 

[Stephen]

Morgan Rielly is not physical and being the point man on the PP (much like Marner) makes little to no sense when your point shots can't break a pain of glass.

Treliving attempted to address, but unsuccessfully due to injury with his Klingberg signing last summer. He was suppose to be Mo Riells PPQB1 replacement.

Watching the playoffs and seeing these Dman blasting away from the point makes so big a difference and its not hard to answer why does Leafs PP struggle come playoff time..

Wrong player personnel not wrong system !!!

So its not surprising to hear Elliot Friedman thoughts suggesting Rielly, Marner and Tavares all mentioned as winds of change potential this summer.

Leafs need to find or draft themselves a Evan Bouchard.

When you watch the lateral dynamism of a PPQB in Quinn Hughes, Miro Heiskanen, Cale Makar, Adam Fox, Brandon Montour, Gustav Forsling, Devon Toews, even Samuel Girard, those guys are very deceptive in foot work and can create little gaps from the point, lose coverage for a second, get a shot on net. With Rielly, it just looks like when he isn't on a tunnel vision rush he's not improvisational and looks like he's on a set of tracks with slow plodding puck moving tendencies. It looks like he has his head in the clouds or is thinking way too hard while making the same predictable plays.

he looks like a number 3 defenseman who doesn't belong on the special teams, isn't strong defensively and not physical, and about to get stripped of more offensive responsibilities and privileges. That's quite a workaround on a 6 man unit. He's gotta go.