Player Discussion Morgan Rielly

[djdev]

You said worse players with more expensive contracts.

Karlsson, werenski and Doughty aren't worse than Rielly. You've got four there at the most. And even if all seven of them are worse.... Congrats, Rielly is only the 8th worst defensemen contract in the league. We're supposed to be happy about that?

lol i said to trade the guy, not sure what u are implying about being happy about the player. rielly had a bad series and year overall, but he was our best player last year in the post season and has been our best player in the playoffs before while putting up around 60 points a year. 7.5 million for him as a player is not a bad deal in the slightest, in fact after last years playoffs everyone on this board was saying his deal was a huge steal. people are way too reactionary after big losses like this and seem to have no ability to be reasonable about what a player actually is.

marner is a fantastic player, and hes actually produced closer to his season norms points wise more than anyone else in this "core", but the way he plays just isnt conducive to winning in the post season.

rielly, again, fantastic player and in a vacuum isnt the problem at all in the playoffs(he had the same amt of points as marner and 1 more than our captain), and was pretty good defensively, which is all u can ask for, and its not really his fault our idiot coach decided he was a good fit for the PP when clearly its not one of his strengths.


the problem is that these guys are all too used to losing at this point and cant get out of their own heads about it. that is the big reason we need to make BIG changes.

Marner/Rielly/Tavares all need to go, not because they are bad(except JT lol) but because over 50 million for these 5 players is insane given the level of success and track record over the past 7 years.

 

[3blizzard4]

A relic from the Burke era.

Will be known for getting absolutely undressed by McDavid a couple of years ago and the empty netter face cross check.

 

[horner]

Didn't think it was a good signing when we signed him.
Hus defensive IQ has never been great.

 

[mjd1001]

He's a good D-man but for those that think he is a true #1 guy, no, that is over-rating him.

I know there are a lot of other factors, but he Leafs are 22-4-1 in the last couple of years in games he DOESN'T play. It at least makes you wonder how valuable he is.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Not sure if he was at 100% or not because playoff Rielly was nowhere to be found.

 

[horner]

Not sure if he was at 100% or not because playoff Rielly was nowhere to be found.

It was his desission making that was questionable.

 

[647Hockey]

Never thought Rielly was a good defensive dman. His value is points, passing and quarterbacking a PP.

Leafs committed a giant contract for a 60 pt dman with meh defence. Wont look good the longer the contract goes.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Reilly does not have high end hockey sense and never has. Its his skating and his hands carrying the puck that are his bread and butter. Reilly's mental game is not something i trust. He does not have a great feel for when to pinch and when not too. He just goes most of the time with no filter. He can not run the PP with 4 all stars, he has no confidence on the PP, no deception. He doesnt hate losing battles down low as much as he should. From my stance, Pasta's goal , Reilly should take the most blame, he should have seen Pasta winding it up and been retreating or anticipating that dump in. He was way out of position, not focused on whats going on. It is not Marners job to chase and shadow Pasta in all the way to the net.

 

[647Hockey]

Reilly does not have high end hockey sense and never has. Its his skating and his hands carrying the puck that are his bread and butter. Reilly's mental game is not something i trust. He does not have a great feel for when to pinch and when not too. He just goes most of the time with no filter. He can not run the PP with 4 all stars, he has no confidence on the PP, no deception. He doesnt hate losing battles down low as much as he should. From my stance, Pasta's goal , Reilly should take the most blame, he should have seen Pasta winding it up and been retreating or anticipating that dump in. He was way out of position, not focused on whats going on. It is not Marners job to chase and shadow Pasta in all the way to the net.

Rielly was so caught out of position, it's not like Pasta had to take a quick one timer off a good corner bounce pass. Pasta literally blew past Rielly going around him and still had enough time to sweep across the net far side on Sammy.

Rielly was standing in the middle of the ice, while Pasta was zipping down the wing.

It's not Marner's task to control a corner bounce pass. It's the dman on that side. Rielly.

 

[LeafEgo]

He gave a discount so the forwards could be over paid to the extent that he gets cheap partners on the first pairing and no goaltender support.

Valid concerns but he's not at top the of the bucket list right now - suprised this is day 1 discusiion. He’s paid like a first pairing specialist, not a bona-fide #1D.

Over the full sample size he's been the only playoff performer in an unlikely environment. Homegrown and imo the type of person you give it an extra year or two, ideally seeing him paired with a proper partner, there may be a shocking difference.

Our other five defenders this playoffs were paid less than $6M combined.

 

[seanlinden]

Marner/Rielly/Tavares all need to go, not because they are bad(except JT lol) but because over 50 million for these 5 players is insane given the level of success and track record over the past 7 years.

Rielly obviously didn't have the playoffs he did last year against Tampa, but I don't think that's sufficient reason to put him on the block. He might have been playing hurt, and he might have been handcuffed a little bit by the coach trying to keep it a low event game and the B's clogging up the front of the net.

At the end of the day, he's the 22nd highest paid defenceman in the league right now.. He's probably better than the 22rd best defeneman. He's been excellent playing with guys that should be making $2-3m; whereas a lot of the "better" defencemen have the luxury of a partner that is paid a lot more than Lyubushkin.

What the Leafs need, is another defenceman of comparable quality to him; most likely that can play on a separate pair.

 

[djdev]

Rielly obviously didn't have the playoffs he did last year against Tampa, but I don't think that's sufficient reason to put him on the block. He might have been playing hurt, and he might have been handcuffed a little bit by the coach trying to keep it a low event game and the B's clogging up the front of the net.

At the end of the day, he's the 22nd highest paid defenceman in the league right now.. He's probably better than the 22rd best defeneman. He's been excellent playing with guys that should be making $2-3m; whereas a lot of the "better" defencemen have the luxury of a partner that is paid a lot more than Lyubushkin.

What the Leafs need, is another defenceman of comparable quality to him; most likely that can play on a separate pair.

i just think this roster needs HUGE changes, and honestly i just dont care about any of these guys anymore(except matthews).

i always liked rielly and hes not the "problem" but hes not a stud offensively OR defensively nor is he a number 1 dman, and hes still very valuable i think in terms of a trade. time to rip off the bandaid and get rid of the majority of these guys.

 

[647Hockey]

i just think this roster needs HUGE changes, and honestly i just dont care about any of these guys anymore(except matthews).

i always liked rielly and hes not the "problem" but hes not a stud offensively OR defensively nor is he a number 1 dman, and hes still very valuable i think in terms of a trade. time to rip off the bandaid and get rid of the majority of these guys.

The big changes will come after next season, unless Leafs management can work miracles to majorly adjust the team now.

After next season is when JT and Marner contracts are over. That is $22M freed up alone. Add in other random player contracts up and the team should have over $30M to play with.

 

[seanlinden]

He gave a discount so the forwards could be over paid to the extent that he gets cheap partners on the first pairing and no goaltender support.

Valid concerns but he's not at top the of the bucket list right now - suprised this is day 1 discusiion. He’s paid like a first pairing specialist, not a bona-fide #1D.

Over the full sample size he's been the only playoff performer in an unlikely environment. Homegrown and imo the type of person you give it an extra year or two, ideally seeing him paired with a proper partner, there may be a shocking difference.

Our other five defenders this playoffs were paid less than $6M combined.

To your point... look no further than accross the ice at Boston.

Yes, Charlie McAvoy was playing with Mason Lohrei; but that allowed Boston to throw Hampus Lindholm and Brandon Carlo against Toronto's best. That's a lot of defneceman for a team to break through on.

Look at some of the other top defencemen in the league...

Cale Makar has Devon Toews alongside him 75% of the time.
Roman Josi had Ran McDonagh 28% of the time, and most often with Dante Fabbro.
Quinn Hughes has Filip Hronek 74% of the time, and Tyler Myers another 9%.

 

[LeafEgo]

To your point... look no further than accross the ice at Boston.

Yes, Charlie McAvoy was playing with Mason Lohrei; but that allowed Boston to throw Hampus Lindholm and Brandon Carlo against Toronto's best. That's a lot of defneceman for a team to break through on.

Look at some of the other top defencemen in the league...

Cale Makar has Devon Toews alongside him 75% of the time.
Roman Josi had Ran McDonagh 28% of the time, and most often with Dante Fabbro.
Quinn Hughes has Filip Hronek 74% of the time, and Tyler Myers another 9%.

Yep, and McAvoy is $9 5M in team friendly city, and is one of those the few 1D's around. You typically can't just go out and get one, so where does that leave us.

 

[seanlinden]

i just think this roster needs HUGE changes, and honestly i just dont care about any of these guys anymore(except matthews).

i always liked rielly and hes not the "problem" but hes not a stud offensively OR defensively nor is he a number 1 dman, and hes still very valuable i think in terms of a trade. time to rip off the bandaid and get rid of the majority of these guys.

Yes, the team needs changes, but you also have to be cognisant of going "too far" down in a "tear down".

Ultimately, we are back into a cap-rising environment. 24-25 is not going to be kind to us because of the raises to Matthews and Nylander, but 25-26 should be, as Tavares is off the books, and presumably likely to resign for a whole bunch less money.

If the cap jumps another $5m, and Morgan Rielly drops to the ~30th highest paid blueliner, we'll probably be wishing we still had him.

It's also not really like the Leafs can go out and easily get a top ~25 defenceman in the league. These guys do not often become available.

Even if the Leafs say, were able to grab a Noah Dobson in a Mitch Marner trade, they'd probably still want Morgan Rielly as their #2 dman.

The need to ditch Marner is not "change for the sake of change" -- it's because you cannot win with a team that is so reliant on 3 forwards, especially when they all thrive on open ice.

 

[647Hockey]

I'm not close enough to know all the Dmen around the league, but there is value having a Dman who can control a puck and QB a PP.

It really comes down to how much a team wants one because these guys are pricey.

You can also go another route. Vegas, Seattle Carolina built a Dman core with low key guys who dont necessarily rack up pts, but they can play a good system, and are swift at skating and passing and allow few shots on net.

Dmen are stereotypically seen as the Paul Coffey scorer or some stay at home crash and bang giant dude.

Not always true. Some teams just have mobile puck movers who can skate and pass out of the zone so they dont need to crash in corners digging for pucks.

Watch Carolina games and you'll see how swift Dmen can actually be. You dont need to be Karlsson or Makar to be a good skating Dman.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The thing with him and Marner is that they need a lot of touches on the puck to be valuable and they’re both prone to making bad decisions under pressure with the puck on their stick. If you get a more reliable guy to be the main puck carrier, both of them lose the main asset that got them their contracts and they look even more overpaid than they do now. If you don’t get a more reliable replacement, we keep running into the same wall every playoffs when the guys who are supposed to run our ES transition + both special teams suddenly have the clock strike 12 and turn into pumpkins under pressure.

In a vacuum Rielly is worth his money, but his money makes it tough to justify adding a 9-10+ mil guy to be the main transition + special teams piece since that means you’re paying Rielly 7.5 to be a 30-40 point sheltered OFD now if you take his PP time + Ozone starts with the top 6 away.

 

[Stephen]

i just think this roster needs HUGE changes, and honestly i just dont care about any of these guys anymore(except matthews).

i always liked rielly and hes not the "problem" but hes not a stud offensively OR defensively nor is he a number 1 dman, and hes still very valuable i think in terms of a trade. time to rip off the bandaid and get rid of the majority of these guys.

Rielly is a problem, but not in any one glaring way, just in a lot of ways that add up to 'not worth it.'

He's a questionable IQ and completely ineffective defenseman as far as being a field general, so he can't control a game or PPQB effectively or impact the pace at which it's played. He has no control of the transition game. His PP zone entries are awful. His drop pass are slow, long and telegraphed. He can't distribute a puck on the point, has no shot. He gets his cookies, but it's on high risk pinches and playing with high scoring forwards, joining the rush or going on his lone ranger instinct runs. Okay.

On D, he's terrible defensively. He's positionally clueless, has no idea how to play an odd man rush, and defends the zone like a fire drill. And cherry on top, he's a low compete player who looks like he'll just take the L after a wild enough scramble. This is why the team never misses him on the ice. He's too chaotic and sloppy to play a tight system defense or lead a team concept. And his offense is drying up, his mobility is getting worse.

He's basically a flawed second pairing, number 3 defenseman.

 

[Craig Button]

Rielly needs to be the first one traded.

MM and JT have one season left and can get easily traded at the deadline.

 

[GQS]

I know its highly unlikely but it really would be nice if we could move Rielly out. Seems like everytime he's ever been out of the lineup, the Leafs never really miss him and often their record without him is better than with. Instead of trying to find a good partner for Rielly, if you could just move him then you'll end up with three solid pairings of Dmen.

 

[647Hockey]

I know its highly unlikely but it really would be nice if we could move Rielly out. Seems like everytime he's ever been out of the lineup, the Leafs never really miss him and often their record without him is better than with. Instead of trying to find a good partner for Rielly, if you could just move him then you'll end up with three solid pairings of Dmen.

Crazy contract at $7.5M till 2029. Good luck moving that contract.

The length is the key black mark. Who the hell wants to commit to MR till 2029. The $7.5M isnt that bad IMO since offensive Dmen are always worth a premium. But you got another 5 years worth.

Leafs would have to find a trading partner desperate for a puck moving PP Dman to do a deal.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Send Rielly to Dubas for EK. Could make a huge difference on our power play and his contract has 3 fewer years remaining.

 

[seventieslord]

Crazy contract at $7.5M till 2029. Good luck moving that contract.

The length is the key black mark. Who the hell wants to commit to MR till 2029. The $7.5M isnt that bad IMO since offensive Dmen are always worth a premium. But you got another 5 years worth.

Leafs would have to find a trading partner desperate for a puck moving PP Dman to do a deal.

Yeah, I wish it was only till 2029

 

[arso40]

Crazy contract at $7.5M till 2029. Good luck moving that contract.

The length is the key black mark. Who the hell wants to commit to MR till 2029. The $7.5M isnt that bad IMO since offensive Dmen are always worth a premium. But you got another 5 years worth.

Leafs would have to find a trading partner desperate for a puck moving PP Dman to do a deal.

Wasn't really offensive though was he?