Morgan Rielly "It's stanley cup or bust. I think that’s how our group feels. Anything short of that will be a failure."

[HockeyVirus]

Relative to the rest of the league, the Leafs defense is middle of the pack at best, and their average age is T-3rd oldest in the league... With no one under 30 that is top pairing material.

Their prospect pool is bottom tier.

Their upcoming draft capital is 3 picks in top 4 rounds of next 2 drafts.

Deep is not a reasonable assessment of their roster nor their organizational depth. Top heavy, and at risk of losing one of their best assets for nothing, especially so if they don't win/have a deep run.

Cup or bust is a very fair assessment, no surprise Reilly feels that way, writing is on the wall.

You just repeated everything you said with no rebuttal. If this is your opinion then ok fair enough, but to say it as if it is factual is not the case.

 

[Miller Time]

Pretty simple, some think losing later in the playoffs is some accomplishment, but most athletes don't.

Nope. Losing early every year is very different than winning multiple playoff rounds. Winning a playoff series is an experience every athlete enjoys.
Winning playoff rounds deeper in the playoffs brings a more intense experience than losing in the first round.

The cup is the goal, but not all losing hits the same way.

Maybe you just aren't aware of some of the players in their system, not sure.

Seems you aren't aware that there are other teams in the league, each of which also have prospects

Relative to the rest of the league, the Leafs prospects & U25 depth is near league basement.

I wouldn't have thought this was in question even among leaf fans?

Not a huge fan of the Tanev contract, OEL is fine, but he is not in the long term plans, and Muzzin got hurt, not sure why he was brought up, he was a #1/2 when he got hurt.

He was brought up because the risk in relying on one of the oldest D groups in the league is pretty obvious... Injuries can affect anyone, but frequency and duration (including career ending) go up withe age.

An average d group that is also one of the oldest further highlights why the contending window is on the downslope. Not sure why this is at all controversial. Overall, Leafs are a contender because the NHL roster top to bottom is top tier. But both their depth and long term outlook beyond this season are not.

 

[notbias]

Nope. Losing early every year is very different than winning multiple playoff rounds. Winning a playoff series is an experience every athlete enjoys.
Winning playoff rounds deeper in the playoffs brings a more intense experience than losing in the first round.

The cup is the goal, but not all losing hits the same way.

We are talking about ultimate goals, the highs and lows of a long run are obviously more extreme than a first round loss, but who cares.

Seems you aren't aware that there are other teams in the league, each of which also have prospects

Relative to the rest of the league, the Leafs prospects & U25 depth is near league basement.

I wouldn't have thought this was in question even among leaf fans?

It's not.

He was brought up because the risk in relying on one of the oldest D groups in the league is pretty obvious... Injuries can affect anyone, but frequency and duration (including career ending) go up withe age.

An average d group that is also one of the oldest further highlights why the contending window is on the downslope. Not sure why this is at all controversial. Overall, Leafs are a contender because the NHL roster top to bottom is top tier. But both their depth and long term outlook beyond this season are not.

Edmonton got further with worse D last year and one of the worst starters in the league.

I think your player evaluation just sucks.

 

[Kerberos]

Edmonton got further with worse D last year and one of the worst starters in the league.

I think your player evaluation just sucks.

Ekholm and Bouchard would be Toronto's #1 and #2 defensemen.

Let us know when you have that.

 

[Jussi]

So when they eventually bust, then what? No reason to live, where's my kayak?

 

[Lt Dan]

I don't think the Leafs are winning the cup this year so I am going with "bust" so I am going to go look at a bunch of pics if Sydney Sweeney

 

[Strangelove]

Of course it will, but responsibly or irresponsibly ? 11M on Tavares was a waste, it's about getting the right players.

Let's recap...

You: They're not making the Cup Final this year. The window will re-open after this season is over and Tavares 11M albatross comes off the books.

Me: That will get gobbled up by Tavares' replacement/new salary + raises. Raises to Marner, Knies, McCabe, Woll...

You: Probably not, Dubas is gone

Me: Doesn't matter who the GM is, that extra money will be gobbled up.

You: Of course it will, but responsibly or irresponsibly ? 11M on Tavares was a waste, it's about getting the right players.
...........................................................................................

Again, there is no extra money to spend with a reduced Tavares salary + raises.

Responsible raises.

Now of course the GM could responsibly blow it up, but that's another subject.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Who cares? Win or lose, they are treated like Gods, right?. That’s all that matters. And squeezing every penny out of the organization, without taking any responsibility whatsoever for their failures.

 

[nturn06]

Who cares? Win or lose, they are treated like Gods, right?. That’s all that matters. And squeezing every penny out of the organization, without taking any responsibility whatsoever for their failures.

Actually nobody knows how they are treated when they win

 

[BostonBob]

Actually nobody knows how they are treated when they win

This guy is old enough to remember when they won something meaningful.

 

[DJN21]

Maybe rielly should be a #1 dman then like his team pretends he is...

 

[AvroArrow]

Let's recap...

You: They're not making the Cup Final this year. The window will re-open after this season is over and Tavares 11M albatross comes off the books.

Me: That will get gobbled up by Tavares' replacement/new salary + raises. Raises to Marner, Knies, McCabe, Woll...

You: Probably not, Dubas is gone

Me: Doesn't matter who the GM is, that extra money will be gobbled up.

You: Of course it will, but responsibly or irresponsibly ? 11M on Tavares was a waste, it's about getting the right players.
...........................................................................................

Again, there is no extra money to spend with a reduced Tavares salary + raises.

Responsible raises.

Now of course the GM could responsibly blow it up, but that's another subject.

Nylander is playing C as of right now, the plan is for him to be the full time 2C, so no it's not a guarantee that Tavares' money will be "gobbled up" by his replacement. If it doesn't work out then of course they'd look for a replacement.

You think the raises to Marner, Knies, McCabe and Woll is gonna be 11m? Marner gets maybe a 1M raise, McCabe maybe a 1-1.5M raise, Wolls raise is 3M, Knies will be another maybe 3, 3.5M raise. Brings it to 8M.

Also you're intentionally excluding for obvious reasons. ELC players like Cowen and Minten who would be stepping in to the line up next season + cap growth.

Your math is completely off, but that final sentence pretty much gives away what you're really trying to do. Imagine trying to to suggest blowing up a team that just gave Matthews an extension and the C and extended Nylander.

Clueless post, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Maybe rielly should be a #1 dman then like his team pretends he is...

Trust me no one of the leafs pretends he's a true #1 D man, meanwhile Buffalo fans think Dahlin/Power are but can't even sniff a WC spot.

 

[Strangle]

I think the leafs battled like crazy last playoffs. Matthews was sick like a dog and still pulled a very « clutch » assist to Nylander in the 3rd period. Narrative is awful because they gave a goal right away but I think the leafs are finally going deep this year.

The leafs have a few valid excuses last year for sure, but they are still excuses. Unfortunately this team has burned through all their good will with Toronto fans and the excuses, even the valid ones don’t matter at all anymore.

I’d like to be able to rationalize how ‘this year will be different, there was so much illness and injury last year” but this team doesn’t deserve it.

If they didn’t have those things to excuse them it would be something else. Or it would be nothing at all and fans would make something up to cope.

Its put up with this team and none of us are convinced that they have what it takes mentally to actually put anything up.

So we are rawdogging this season with low expectations and hoping something clicks

 

[Strangle]

Even the biggest leaf homer shouldnt believe that toxic matthews core can ever accomplish what the Avs core have done.

Every leaf fan believes that the leafs core have the skill to be Stanley cup champions.

It’s in the mental/emotional that they all also have a lot of questions about the core of the team.

 

[Strangle]

Doesn't matter who the GM is, that extra money will be gobbled up.

Yes, the Toronto maple leafs will spend to the cap every year.

The trick is to spend it well.

But if you think they’ll just sit on Tavares cap difference and not spend it …. I mean I don't actually think you think that.

I think what you’re saying is that they have to let Tavares walk so they can afford to re-sign Marner, Woll and knies?

To counter that, I hope they **wouldnt** spend $7-$11m re-signing those players. I do hope swayman costs the bruins more than that though!

They badly need to win an over dramatic emotional game 7 series winner to get over whatever mental issue they have over it but seem to lose game 7 in every possible way.

Their roster isn’t as strong as years before but I do think the talent and make up of their line up is still good enough for a long run if everything falls together but they need to get over that mental hump somehow.

I think the talent up front isn’t as good, but I think this team’s full roster is better than they have ever been.

The improvements in goal and on the back end will make up for the lost goals of bertuzzi 3-fold

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

You just repeated everything you said with no rebuttal. If this is your opinion then ok fair enough, but to say it as if it is factual is not the case.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander...

Edmonton got further with worse D last year and one of the worst starters in the league.

I think your player evaluation just sucks.

What's the logical link between the first paragraph and the second one ?

 

[Miller Time]

We are talking about ultimate goals, the highs and lows of a long run are obviously more extreme than a first round loss, but who cares.



It's not.



Edmonton got further with worse D last year and one of the worst starters in the league.

I think your player evaluation just sucks.

Not sure what's worse, your overall take, or your poor assessment of the Oilers vs Leafs defense last year

 

[eramosat]

naive in the extreme, if this is actually what he meant.

and morgan at least had some cover, compared to his teammates. so...not a smart move, or good move, from any perspective I can appreciate...

 

[Strangelove]

You think the raises to Marner, Knies, McCabe and Woll is gonna be 11m? Marner gets maybe a 1M raise, McCabe maybe a 1-1.5M raise, Wolls raise is 3M, Knies will be another maybe 3, 3.5M raise. Brings it to 8M.

Also you're intentionally excluding for obvious reasons. ELC players like Cowen and Minten who would be stepping in to the line up next season + cap growth.

Marner cap raise: $1.5M
Knies cap raise: $4M
McCabe cap raise: $3M (only half of his cap counts right now)
Woll cap raise $3M
Tavares replacement cap hit: $6.5M

If you think Nylander takes centre, they need a winger instead.

Minten will be a 4th liner at best.

Cowen as the new Core Four guy?

Well one can dream.

Look kid, I'm not here to shatter your dreams, I'm just a realist by nature.

Yes, the Toronto maple leafs will spend to the cap every year.

The trick is to spend it well.

But if you think they’ll just sit on Tavares cap difference and not spend it …. I mean I don't actually think you think that.

I think what you’re saying is that they have to let Tavares walk so they can afford to re-sign Marner, Woll and knies?

Why even respond if you have no idea what I said...

 

[Strangle]

Doesn't matter who the GM is, that extra money will be gobbled up.

Why even respond if you have no idea what I said...

That’s what you said

Tavares money will be ‘gobbled up’

Of course it will lol what did you think they would do with it? Put it in an RRSP and watch it grow?

 

[ManWithNoName]

Tavares will be resigned and he’s just as greedy as the rest of the spoiled primadonnas.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

Trust me no one of the leafs pretends he's a true #1 D man, meanwhile Buffalo fans think Dahlin/Power are but can't even sniff a WC spot.

Yeah, but it's not like Dahlin and Power are literal gods like Marner.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

They’ve managed to win a single playoff round in his 11 year career. “Cup or Bust” feels a little optimistic at this point

They'll be well rested for this cup run

 

[AvroArrow]

Marner cap raise: $1.5M
Knies cap raise: $4M
McCabe cap raise: $3M (only half of his cap counts right now)
Woll cap raise $3M
Tavares replacement cap hit: $6.5M

If you think Nylander takes centre, they need a winger instead.

Minten will be a 4th liner at best.

Cowen as the new Core Four guy?

Well one can dream.

Look kid, I'm not here to shatter your dreams, I'm just a realist by nature.

Obvious what you're actually trying to do, I wish you the best in life kid

Yeah, but it's not like Dahlin and Power are literal gods like Marner.

No one is a god like Marner, bow down before the almighty

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I have a feeling the Berube signing is going to be looked back on as the equivalent of the Oilers' hiring Dallas Eakins.

If the Leafs ever actually win something, I feel like some part of my own personal enjoyment in life will die.

How is this even possible -- in any imagineable scenario -- in the world's #1 hockey market, with the biggest fanbase, with the most revenue, and as a destination (unlike most Canadian cities) that players actually want to play in?:

2006 - Failed to win a playoff round
2007 - Failed to win a playoff round
2008 - Failed to win a playoff round
2009 - Failed to win a playoff round
2010 - Failed to win a playoff round
2011 - Failed to win a playoff round
2012 - Failed to win a playoff round
2013 - Failed to win a playoff round
2014 - Failed to win a playoff round
2015 - Failed to win a playoff round
2016 - Failed to win a playoff round
2017 - Failed to win a playoff round
2018 - Failed to win a playoff round
2019 - Failed to win a playoff round
2020 - Failed to win a playoff round
2021 - Failed to win a playoff round
2022 - Failed to win a playoff round
2023 - Won one playoff round
2024 - Failed to win a playoff round

It takes a kind of staggering managerial incompetence to pull that off.

Better than the Miami Dolphins at least