More points this year? Crosby vs Bedard

[Le Magnifique 66]

Still Sid for next season!

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

No Guentzel, but the PP could not have been worse for Sid last year. 1.15 ppg for Sid vs 0.9 for Bedard. I’d bet Sid’s will go down and Bedard’s will go up. Sid by about 7 points.

Might have to amend my answer—Sid, Malkin, Stamkos, McDavid, and Kucherov took big jumps from their first to second seasons. Kane and Ovy didn’t. So, Bedard might take a bigger jump than I previously expected. I’ll say Sid by two points.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Assuming good health for both, comfortably Bedard.

So i take it your thinking bedard scores 100+?

 

[the valiant effort]

Bedard still won’t touch ppg

 

[MessierII]

Crosby but Bedard will have way more goals. I think he’s up there in the league in goals this year.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

After the Guentzel trade, Crosby was 5th in league scoring with 31 points in 22 games. Sid’s at an age where it’s hard to know if he’ll have a drop off of not from aging but I wouldn’t predict it due to his team situation

Only 20ish of those games were after the Guentzel trade and Crosby is 37...I'd put the over/under at 75 points(pace). No insult to Crosby, 70+ would be a great season considering.

Pretty much what Regal said. It's not like Crosby's production cratered after the Guentzel trade.

There was nothing in Crosby's performance that suggests an almost 20 point decline like you're predicting, barring injury time causing him to miss a bunch so he ends up with like 75 points in 68 games or something. If he plays another 82 games (or at least 80+) then I don't see why another 85+ point season is out of the question, especially if a guy like Rakell has a bounce back year after an injury-plagued season.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

If Bedard really is generational, think he finishes ahead of Sid, and maybe even top 5 in scoring.

I think the perception of him being generational is more or less gone. If 80% of the forum thinks a 37 year old Crosby is going to outscore him, that tells me most don't see him as a true generational player. Don't get me wrong, Sid is still amazing, but he was t-12th in scoring and 16th in ppg last year as a 36 year old. It's probably unlikely he finishes any higher this year.

If Bedard finishes outside the top 15-20 in scoring, that would be a pretty big disappointment considering the hype.

Notable D+2 scoring finishes:
Gretzky 1st
Lemieux 2nd
Crosby 1st
McDavid 1st
Ovechkin 3rd
Stamkos 5th

I have some doubts he'll end up on this list next year. Looking more and more like he's a Kane/Matthews/Hughes tier talent, not a Crosby/McDavid. Which should absolutely not be taken as an insult.

 

[wetcoast]

As we saw with Karlsson in San Jose, sometimes that awful team helps your production. Last season he was basically their only weapon and the entire offense was dedicated to funneling him the puck to make plays. As Chicago gets more weapons on offense I expect the puck to be distributed a little more evenly. Bedard will also improve, but it's not necessarily going to be working from the same structure that was so lopsided for his point production last season.

It works differently for forwards since their primary job is to score than for Dmen who are given a green light.

An apples to oranges comparison.

 

[bobholly39]

I think the perception of him being generational is more or less gone. If 80% of the forum thinks a 37 year old Crosby is going to outscore him, that tells me most don't see him as a true generational player. Don't get me wrong, Sid is still amazing, but he was t-12th in scoring and 16th in ppg last year as a 36 year old. It's probably unlikely he finishes any higher this year.

If Bedard finishes outside the top 15-20 in scoring, that would be a pretty big disappointment considering the hype.

Notable D+2 scoring finishes:
Gretzky 1st
Lemieux 2nd
Crosby 1st
McDavid 1st
Ovechkin 3rd
Stamkos 5th

I have some doubts he'll end up on this list next year. Looking more and more like he's a Kane/Matthews/Hughes tier talent, not a Crosby/McDavid. Which should absolutely not be taken as an insult.

Jagr had a really solid start to his career, but he only really exploded in year 5. And I'd consider him generational.

Even someone like Lemieux - he did good in his first 3 years, but really expoloded in year 4.

I don't know if Bedard will end up as a generational player or not. But I would say I would be willing to wait and see until years 4/5 before dismissing the possibility altogether.

Crosby/McDavid won Ross/Hart/Lindsay in year 2. I doubt Bedard is going to do the same next season, but who knows? Maybe he'll take a huge step forward. And even without finishing #1, just coming in close would be very significant.

 

[wetcoast]

Bedard still won’t touch ppg

This post isn't going to age very well.

 

[the valiant effort]

This post isn't going to age very well.

I feel perfectly at ease with my prediction for “No Motor” Bedard’s 2024-2025 season

 

[dr robbie]

Crosby but Bedard will have way more goals. I think he’s up there in the league in goals this year.

Pretty much my thoughts. I think it'll be close, but slight edge to Crosby for points while Bedard will put up quite a few goals.

 

[Thallis]

It works differently for forwards since their primary job is to score than for Dmen who are given a green light.

An apples to oranges comparison.

It might not be as drastic, but there's still only one puck to go around. Chicago's offense last year was Looney Tunes in regards to how much they deferred to Bedard.

 

[Faceboner]

Crosby should easily be good for another ~90-100 point season. Or ~80-110 if you want to cast a wider net.

Bedard is the unknown here. Both Crosby and McDavid won Ross/Lindsay/Hart in their second seasons, and Bedard is the closest thing to a Crosby/McDavid level prospect since 2005. Will he make such a jump? Or even close? I'd like to see it, but I'm not sure.

I'll vote Crosby - I think he has one last great season in him.

Gonna be impossible for Bedard to win the Hart but mvp contention is a way closer race than when Crosby or McDavid won it. Bedard has to compete with Mackinnon, mcdavid, kucherov, draisaitl, panarin, matthews, pasta and who ever else ends up with a career year all those guys are expecting to put up at least 100 points in their. Bedard isn't getting votes unless he does have a tremendous break out year scoring 50 and getting 110 points while leading Chicago to the playoffs

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Jagr had a really solid start to his career, but he only really exploded in year 5. And I'd consider him generational.

Even someone like Lemieux - he did good in his first 3 years, but really expoloded in year 4.

Yeah, but Jagr had a lot of filling into do. He was pretty wiry when he first came to Pittsburgh. Lemieux similarly was a big, rangy dude who needed time to fully fill in. Smaller guys like Bedard don't typically have as much physical development ahead of them, especially considering how thick he already is.

I don't know if Bedard will end up as a generational player or not. But I would say I would be willing to wait and see until years 4/5 before dismissing the possibility altogether.

Crosby/McDavid won Ross/Hart/Lindsay in year 2. I doubt Bedard is going to do the same next season, but who knows? Maybe he'll take a huge step forward. And even without finishing #1, just coming in close would be very significant.

I'd bet my house he doesn't finish within 10 points of the leading scorer this year.

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

Crosby wins 72 pts vs 63 pts.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Even last year in his rookie season, I expected Bebard to flirt with 100 points and outproduce Crosby, but he didn’t. In fact, Bedard wasn’t even a point per game player, while Crosby was actually flirting with 100 points.

Crosby has earned the benefit of the doubt has being a ppg player and a perennial 90 points player.

Until Bedard can actually prove he’s on Crosby’s level, Crosby is the better pick.

 

[bobholly39]

Gonna be impossible for Bedard to win the Hart but mvp contention is a way closer race than when Crosby or McDavid won it. Bedard has to compete with Mackinnon, mcdavid, kucherov, draisaitl, panarin, matthews, pasta and who ever else ends up with a career year all those guys are expecting to put up at least 100 points in their. Bedard isn't getting votes unless he does have a tremendous break out year scoring 50 and getting 110 points while leading Chicago to the playoffs

Yes 50+ goals, 110+ points + playoffs probably puts him in hart contention (even if he doesn't win). That's probably what it takes.

And yes - this is a very deep field. I'd argue Crosby had a big challenge going in 2006-2007 though, since 2005-2006 was full of incredible performances too (a few players did drop off the following year). McDavid had a bit easier competition in 2016-2017. But I would definitely rate competition among leaders as stronger going into next year than it was for either of Crosby or McDavid in their year 2.

Yeah, but Jagr had a lot of filling into do. He was pretty wiry when he first came to Pittsburgh. Lemieux similarly was a big, rangy dude who needed time to fully fill in. Smaller guys like Bedard don't typically have as much physical development ahead of them, especially considering how thick he already is.

I'd bet my house he doesn't finish within 10 points of the leading scorer this year.

Taking last season as a benchmark - I'd say Bedard on the upper end of expectations could maybe rival a Panarin/Pastrnak in point production this season. So - maybe a ~110-115+ points. If guys like McDavid, Kucherov or others are again flirting with ~140-150+ points, I agree, I can't fathom Bedard challenging that.

At the end of the day though - we just won't know till we know. Crosby looked great as a rookie, but did people really expect him to sweep all awards in year 2? Or Ovechkin - very strong rookie year, slows down a bit in year 2.....did people really predict him to then blow up as much as he did in 2008? Or Jagr to win the Ross in 95 after barely finsihing top 10 before?

My point is - it's hard to predict the peak of such players, and we won't really know until we know.

 

[Faceboner]

Yes 50+ goals, 110+ points + playoffs probably puts him in hart contention (even if he doesn't win). That's probably what it takes.

And yes - this is a very deep field. I'd argue Crosby had a big challenge going in 2006-2007 though, since 2005-2006 was full of incredible performances too (a few players did drop off the following year). McDavid had a bit easier competition in 2016-2017. But I would definitely rate competition among leaders as stronger going into next year than it was for either of Crosby or McDavid in their year 2.




Taking last season as a benchmark - I'd say Bedard on the upper end of expectations could maybe rival a Panarin/Pastrnak in point production this season. So - maybe a ~110-115+ points. If guys like McDavid, Kucherov or others are again flirting with ~140-150+ points, I agree, I can't fathom Bedard challenging that.

At the end of the day though - we just won't know till we know. Crosby looked great as a rookie, but did people really expect him to sweep all awards in year 2? Or Ovechkin - very strong rookie year, slows down a bit in year 2.....did people really predict him to then blow up as much as he did in 2008? Or Jagr to win the Ross in 95 after barely finsihing top 10 before?

My point is - it's hard to predict the peak of such players, and we won't really know until we know.

That's the thing too McDavid and Crosby were also entering a new era of hockey when they came in a lot of other players were exiting their prime while the aforementioned players are still in their prime except for maybe kucherov but his game is built around iq so I still see him producing near his peak level for another 3-4 years left before he tapers off into a ppg winger

 

[wetcoast]

I feel perfectly at ease with my prediction for “No Motor” Bedard’s 2024-2025 season

PPG in coming quite easily.

 

[TGWL]

I'm not betting against Crosby until he actually looks like he can't perform like a top player. Hawks were bad last season but -44 is just disgusting and I wouldn't be surprised to see Bedard try to become more reliable in both ends, which might dip a little production from the big jump many are expecting. Expecting a great season from him though.

 

[SEALBound]

I think it will be close but Sid. If the Penguins figure out their PP, it will be Sid easily.

This does NOT mean than Bedard is a bad player. I feel like that has to be said.

 

[wetcoast]

It might not be as drastic, but there's still only one puck to go around. Chicago's offense last year was Looney Tunes in regards to how much they deferred to Bedard.

Sure but Bedard is by far the most explosive offensive player on the Black Hawks so he will be the primary focal point of their offense for the next 15 years.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

At the end of the day though - we just won't know till we know. Crosby looked great as a rookie, but did people really expect him to sweep all awards in year 2?

Yes absolutely, he was thought to be the favorite. He was the most efficient scorer in the league in the last 20 games of the season as an 18 year old.

 

[the valiant effort]

PPG in coming quite easily.

I will be very proud of him if he does