Toggle sidebar

More MVP Worthy Player: Mackinnon, Kuch or Drai?

landy said:
Its wild people really believe this as we watch Ovi do what hes doing.
Click to expand...
Ovi is chasing something he has control over. Kucherov can be the best player in the world and they will still give mvp to the Canadian, it's obvious to everyone that this is happening. Mack was definitely so happy he isn't from Russia when he still wanted that mvp trophy last year.
 
CupsOverCash said:
Ovi is chasing something he has control over. Kucherov can be the best player in the world and they will still give mvp to the Canadian, it's obvious to everyone that this is happening. Mack was definitely so happy he isn't from Russia when he still wanted that mvp trophy last year.
Click to expand...
1409e3ada1a79e69a10de7155492d7a2.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nathaniel
Cup Or Bust said:
From start to finish Mackinnon was the best player in the league last season, you can disagree with that if you want but Colorado had horrendous goaltending, injuries, horrible depth at forward, Nishuskin missing close to 30 games and Mackinnon kept that team going all season.

Tampa Bay had three 40 goals scorers, six 20+ goal scorers, five 70+ point scorers and even with Vasilevskiy having a bit of a down year, that is still far better then the awful goaltending Colorado had last season. So I think Mackinnon was the very well deserved winner last season. People can disagree on that but Kucherov definitely doesn't deserve it this season.
Click to expand...
Two of those 40 goal seasons were because of Kucherov. See how Stamkos is doing without him.

All of TB's best players, minus Brandon Hagel, were bad last year. Below their regular performances at best. He really did put the team on his shoulders. He was in on something like 50% of team scoring.

This year he could win the scoring race by 10 and I dont think he would deserve it as much. Because last year was more about how he pulled the team like an anchor and got them to the playoffs. They were really bad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoek, Zwui21, atlanticobserver and 2 others
landy said:
What is that newspaper clipping crap? Sort yo.

Take out PP and McDavid's 22-23 super inflated .87 PPP/GP season and can see why many believe MacKinnon is as good or better. Now take out the 20-21 Canada only AHL division and we can go back to 2019 also.

View attachment 1004851
Click to expand...
So you're saying if we change the stats we are looking at, delete a player's production over a season, change the time range, and exclude a year in the middle, the data paints a different picture?

I can't believe it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RussianGuyovich, Hoek, Duke74 and 7 others
DFC said:
Two of those 40 goal seasons were because of Kucherov. See how Stamkos is doing without him.

All of TB's best players, minus Brandon Hagel, were bad last year. Below their regular performances at best. He really did put the team on his shoulders. He was in on something like 50% of team scoring.

This year he could win the scoring race by 10 and I dont think he would deserve it as much. Because last year was more about how he pulled the team like an anchor and got them to the playoffs. They were really bad.
Click to expand...
Kucherov had a great season last year and I picked him to finish 2nd for the Hart but I think MacKinnon was the best player in the NHL last season and the most valuable to his team. I think Draisaitl has been the best player in the NHL this season and most valuable to his team but we will see what happens. Anyway it is just opinions, you have yours and I have mine.
 
landy said:
What is that newspaper clipping crap? Sort yo.

Take out PP and McDavid's 22-23 super inflated .87 PPP/GP season and can see why many believe MacKinnon is as good or better. Now take out the 20-21 Canada only AHL division and we can go back to 2019 also.

View attachment 1004851
Click to expand...
Why would you take out powerplay production? Being good at scoring on the powerplay is a good thing. It helps you win hockey games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Duke74 and CupsOverCash
VinikToWinIt said:
So you're saying if we change the stats we are looking at, delete a player's production over a season, change the time range, and exclude a year in the middle, the data paints a different picture?

I can't believe it.
Click to expand...
Simply sorting by Even strength points, but I guess if that is complicated, we can go back and forth about who has more empty net points lately.
 
Cup Or Bust said:
Kucherov had a great season last year and I picked him to finish 2nd for the Hart but I think MacKinnon was the best player in the NHL last season and the most valuable to his team. I think Draisaitl has been the best player in the NHL this season and most valuable to his team but we will see what happens. Anyway it is just opinions, you have yours and I have mine.
Click to expand...
Explain how he was more valuable. This doesn't convince a tampa fan. It's like saying any opinion and then that's that. Doesn't do anything for your argument. A lot of tampa fans have said hey he beat his next best player by a ridiculous amount of points, oh no Mackinnon is a better player so he wins. No you just said an opinion and tampa fans proved with a Stat on why he's better. Too many people just go by opinion and not on real evidence. Team x is always on display in 2025. No research, humans in a nutshell in 2025.
 
Romang67 said:
Why would you take out powerplay production? Being good at scoring on the powerplay is a good thing. It helps you win hockey games.
Click to expand...
Because one season was against the joke that was Canadian hockey teams and the other was an ungodly unsustainable PP that teams have since figured out. Those seasons were used to crown him the best player in the world by a large margin. Simply showing how ES stats have been superior for another player and that the initial player has not fallen off at all, simply not as good as we crowned him to be and he depends on the PP for a huge chunk of production. Without that, he is still a top 5 player in the world, but not a tier above everyone else.
 
landy said:
What is that newspaper clipping crap? Sort yo.

Take out PP and McDavid's 22-23 super inflated .87 PPP/GP season and can see why many believe MacKinnon is as good or better. Now take out the 20-21 Canada only AHL division and we can go back to 2019 also.

View attachment 1004851
Click to expand...
What this truly tells me is how overshadowed what Crosby is doing because of Ovi's chase. Imaging being late 30s and being 7th in the league in scoring over this period
 
  • Like
Reactions: sanscosm
landy said:
Because one season was against the joke that was Canadian hockey teams and the other was an ungodly unsustainable PP that teams have since figured out. Those seasons were used to crown him the best player in the world by a large margin. Simply showing how ES stats have been superior for another player and that the initial player has not fallen off at all, simply not as good as we crowned him to be and he depends on the PP for a huge chunk of production. Without that, he is still a top 5 player in the world, but not a tier above everyone else.
Click to expand...
Did you happen to take a look at the teams that the Avs had in their division in 2021? Because I don't know if anyone would accuse the Sharks, Ducks, Kings, or Coyotes of being good hockey teams. MacKinnon just didn't score anywhere near as well as McDavid did, despite playing against some awful teams.

And again, scoring a lot of points on the power play is a good thing. You see how it's a little disingenuous when you take out a big chunk of McDavid's production in his career year, but leave in the production from MacKinnon's career year, right?
 
  • Like
Reactions: RussianGuyovich, Hoek, Duke74 and 1 other person
CupsOverCash said:
Explain how he was more valuable. This doesn't convince a tampa fan. It's like saying any opinion and then that's that. Doesn't do anything for your argument. A lot of tampa fans have said hey he beat his next best player by a ridiculous amount of points, oh no Mackinnon is a better player so he wins. No you just said an opinion and tampa fans proved with a Stat on why he's better. Too many people just go by opinion and not on real evidence. Team x is always on display in 2025. No research, humans in a nutshell in 2025.
Click to expand...
I am not trying to convince a Tampa Bay fan that their favorite player doesn't deserve to win an award. Obviously lots agree with me, which is why Mackinnon won. I have seen zero evidence that Kucherov should have won, just an opinion that point separation between 1st and 2nd place in scoring on a team is the only stat that matters and is more important then a teams overall roster, which I completely disagree with. No one can convince me that Colorado had a better roster last season then Tampa Bay, and no one can convince me that Mackinnon was not the best player in the NHL last season. In the end, it is all opinions and people will have different ones. You might value different things for a team's success then I do.
 
Last edited:
landy said:
What is that newspaper clipping crap? Sort yo.

Take out PP and McDavid's 22-23 super inflated .87 PPP/GP season and can see why many believe MacKinnon is as good or better. Now take out the 20-21 Canada only AHL division and we can go back to 2019 also.

View attachment 1004851
Click to expand...
“what is this newspaper clippings”

proceeds to newspaper clip even harder to fit his narrative
 
  • Like
Reactions: RDTBay4 and Duke74
landy said:
What is that newspaper clipping crap? Sort yo.

Take out PP and McDavid's 22-23 super inflated .87 PPP/GP season and can see why many believe MacKinnon is as good or better. Now take out the 20-21 Canada only AHL division and we can go back to 2019 also.
Click to expand...

How about we take out all the empty net goals and pts as well?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Duke74
I really don't see why MacKinnon should win it this season. He's arguably not even the best player on his own team, also not as dominant as last year.
 
The ranking should be:
Draisaitl
Kucherov
MacKinnon

And I don't see much argument for any switches. Frankly, I think Hellebuyck could be 2nd or 3rd but Vasilevskiy has made the Vezina conversation a little more interesting.
 
Cup Or Bust said:
I am not trying to convince a Tampa Bay fan that their favorite player doesn't deserve to win an award. Obviously lots agree with me, which is why Mackinnon won. I have seen zero evidence that Kucherov should have won, just an opinion that point separation between 1st and 2nd place in scoring on a team is the only stat that matters and is more important then a teams overall roster, which I completely disagree with. No one can convince me that Colorado had a better roster last season then Tampa Bay, and no one can convince me that Mackinnon was not the best player in the NHL last season. In the end, it is all opinions and people will have different ones. You might value different things for a team's success then I do.
Click to expand...
Colorado absolutely had the better roster. Tampa had 1.5 capable lines, tops. They were playing Anthony Duclair on line 1 in the playoffs. Matt Dumba was on their third pair. One of Nick Perbix and/or Darren Raddysh were top 4 d men. They had at least 1-2 rookie D in the lineup nightly. And their goalie had back surgery in October.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoek
Romang67 said:
Did you happen to take a look at the teams that the Avs had in their division in 2021? Because I don't know if anyone would accuse the Sharks, Ducks, Kings, or Coyotes of being good hockey teams. MacKinnon just didn't score anywhere near as well as McDavid did, despite playing against some awful teams.

And again, scoring a lot of points on the power play is a good thing. You see how it's a little disingenuous when you take out a big chunk of McDavid's production in his career year, but leave in the production from MacKinnon's career year, right?
Click to expand...
Retweet re: calling Kucherov an empty net/powerplay/secondary assist merchant last year but acting like MacKinnon is hart worthy (worthier, at least) despite his leading Kucherov and Draisaitl in those stats this year
 
  • Like
Reactions: ManofSteel55
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom