More horrible player: Bouillon or Murray?

[417]

They're both equally bad...but both can bring a different skill set depending on the matchup.

The Bruins are a cycle team, they're really great at grinding your D down low and sending it back up to their Dmen while their forwards screen the goalie waiting for the point shot

Murray might prove more useful vs Bruins simply because of this...

vs. the Bolts, Bouillon was the better option...while vs. the Bruins, IMO, Murray is.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

You just know that when everything is going right with Bouillon that he is going to have that horrible game.

They're both bad, I'd play Tinordi

 

[Mike8]

They're both equally bad...but both can bring a different skill set depending on the matchup.

The Bruins are a cycle team, they're really great at grinding your D down low and sending it back up to their Dmen while their forwards screen the goalie waiting for the point shot

Murray might prove more useful vs Bruins simply because of this...

vs. the Bolts, Bouillon was the better option...while vs. the Bruins, IMO, Murray is.

I think Boston's equally dangerous in transition. Lot of speed and they bank on odd-man rushes. Murray would be good in providing them odd-man rushes.

 

[Kriss E]

They're both equally bad...but both can bring a different skill set depending on the matchup.

The Bruins are a cycle team, they're really great at grinding your D down low and sending it back up to their Dmen while their forwards screen the goalie waiting for the point shot

Murray might prove more useful vs Bruins simply because of this...

vs. the Bolts, Bouillon was the better option...while vs. the Bruins, IMO, Murray is.

I don't think our problem have been the battles down low. It's been sloppy coverage, or luck. Our forwards have done a bad job covering the points. Our transition game will suffer with Murray in, and I really don't think that's a smart approach.

 

[417]

I think Boston's equally dangerous in transition. Lot of speed and they bank on odd-man rushes. Murray would be good in providing them odd-man rushes.

All fair points... But I don't think playing either or is going to affect the outcome of this game

They're both bad in their own way...

 

[JoelWarlord]

The 800 pound elephant in the corner of the room that people keep ignoring is that the Habs beat the Bruins 3 out of 4 games with Murray in the lineup.

Plus I hate to be THAT GUY who points out the obvious.

With Murray in the pressbox, the Habs have been dominated, outskated and outshot.................all of the reasons why you and some others have said that Murray would be the cause of if he were on the ice.

Be that guy all you want, Murray does not belong in this league anymore, much less in a playoff game against one of the best 2 teams in the league.

Murray's Penguins were dismantled by the Bruins with him being a massive boat anchor. Murray doesn't help the team one bit, we didn't lose to the Bruins because the team sucks at defense, we lost because we were playing too much defense. Murray is damn near the worst non goon in the league in shot prevention, adding a pylon does not stop the team from being massively outshot which is the root of the problem.

I know, this is the part where the team wins tomorrow and it all goes away but I resent that line of reasoning. If I go to the casino and put my life savings on a single number at the roulette table and walk away a millionaire, it doesn't mean I made a good decision. The guy's been awful all year, and we're putting him in a playoff game hoping something changes.

And before you say something silly about me not understanding the value of physicality or whatever, I'd rather Tinordi than both guys and I've been saying that for weeks.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

The guy pinches a lot because he's too slow to recover from the slightest error in positioning. He's obviously developed some ability to pinch because of that through necessity, but it's just another way in which he can be taken advantage of.

If your reasoning was correct, which it isn't, he wouldn't pinch at all... and in fact probably wouldn't be allowed to by the coaches. But he does, and he is, and his success rate must be best on the squad in this aspect of the game. Unlike the rest of them (yes, even... maybe especially... Subban), both the puck and the puck carrier don't make it by Murray when he pinches; at least one comes to an abrupt halt every time.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Murray's Penguins were dismantled by the Bruins with him being a massive boat anchor.

Murray played 15 minutes/night for them in the playoffs, but they're HIS Penguins, right? Niskanen and Engelland contributing fewer points alongside their worse +/-, but Murray was the massive boat anchor, right?

Even if I believe that the Penguins/Bruins series was on a TV more or less in your vicinity on occasion in 2013 (which I'm finding hard enough), your distillation, rife with the obligatory hyperbole, can't, and shouldn't, be taken seriously.

 

[Hackett]

They're both equally bad...but both can bring a different skill set depending on the matchup.

The Bruins are a cycle team, they're really great at grinding your D down low and sending it back up to their Dmen while their forwards screen the goalie waiting for the point shot

Murray might prove more useful vs Bruins simply because of this...

vs. the Bolts, Bouillon was the better option...while vs. the Bruins, IMO, Murray is.

I agree with Murray being a much better option down low. However, this edition of the bruins seem to be quite capable in transition too.

So its almost like which poision you would like to consume. But I give a slight advantage to Murray at least on home ice where it would be a little easier to shelter Murray from the most dangerous transitional players of Boston

 

[MD thaivuN]

All fair points... But I don't think playing either or is going to affect the outcome of this game

They're both bad in their own way...

Well, one could affect how much more goals we get scored on.

 

[DouglasMurraysSpeed*]

We need a job posting somewhere:

Description

Entry level defenseman (6th/7th defenseman) for the Montreal Canadiens

Requirements

-5+ years of NHL experience
-Be able to play at the level of a top-4 defenseman

Salary
Under 1.5M AAV

- Must have positive corsi/fenwick
- Must be able to hit and fight
- Must skate faster than average

 

[Hoople]

Be that guy all you want, Murray does not belong in this league anymore, much less in a playoff game against one of the best 2 teams in the league.

Murray's Penguins were dismantled by the Bruins with him being a massive boat anchor. Murray doesn't help the team one bit, we didn't lose to the Bruins because the team sucks at defense, we lost because we were playing too much defense. Murray is damn near the worst non goon in the league in shot prevention, adding a pylon does not stop the team from being massively outshot which is the root of the problem.

I know, this is the part where the team wins tomorrow and it all goes away but I resent that line of reasoning. If I go to the casino and put my life savings on a single number at the roulette table and walk away a millionaire, it doesn't mean I made a good decision. The guy's been awful all year, and we're putting him in a playoff game hoping something changes.

And before you say something silly about me not understanding the value of physicality or whatever, I'd rather Tinordi than both guys and I've been saying that for weeks.

To hell with Murray's Penguins laugh: yep, Murray was the reason the Pens scored only two goals in 4 games against the Bruins) from LAST SEASON.

You are ignoring what happened to the Canadiens when Murray played against the Bruins THIS SEASON.

All of your fears were unfounded.

Now, do you care to explain why the Habs have been out-shot without Murray? Who do you blame? A particular player or the system or the structured system of the Boston Bruins that allows for puck possession regardless of who they are playing against?

I am curious to hear your explanation about the Habs play without Murray in the lineup.

 

[optimus2861]

Murray does not deserve an NHL roster spot, never mind a spot in our top-6 in the playoffs.

Let's not kid ourselves: the Bruins are, in fact, one of the most skilled teams in the NHL. Playing the slowest, worst puck-moving defenceman in the organization, and possibly the league, against them is a recipe for disaster. We're already having trouble getting the puck out of our own end when the Bruins push; Murray doesn't help that problem. In fact he makes it worse.

But Murray will play tonight. Because, MOARBIG. Ugh.

 

[417]

Well, one could affect how much more goals we get scored on.

PK Subban was on the ice for 2 or 3 goals against last game...does that mean he should sit too?

Look, both Bouillon and Murray are bad...they're not very good dmen. But they offer different styles, anyone who thinks the game is going to be decided by the inclusion/exclusion of one or the other, is kidding themselves.

 

[417]

To hell with Murray's Penguins laugh: yep, Murray was the reason the Pens scored only two goals in 4 games against the Bruins) from LAST SEASON.

You are ignoring what happened to the Canadiens when Murray played against the Bruins THIS SEASON.

All of your fears were unfounded.

Now, do you care to explain why the Habs have been out-shot without Murray? Who do you blame? A particular player or the system or the structured system of the Boston Bruins that allows for puck possession regardless of who they are playing against?
I am curious to hear your explanation about the Habs play without Murray in the lineup.

Exactly...the Bruins are going to beat the Habs in terms of puck possession. They're a better team, period. That doesn't mean they will win though or that the Habs can't counter this.

The Bruins are going to continue to possess the puck, this isn't going to change...at least when Murray is on the ice, he offers more stability in terms of defensive positioning (Bouillon is lost with the puck down low in his own zone) and in terms of clearing the front of the Habs net (not to mention, that he's good on the PK).

But at the end of the day, Bouillon or Murray...doesn't matter.

 

[Miller Time]

Playoff hockey it's hands down Murray...

Guy can't freaking move, and is already on edge with some of his high hits (that are the result of him lunging with his upper body cuz his legs can't get him there fast enough)... and he can't freaking pass the puck...
i don't know what's slower, his skating, or his thinking with the puck!


At least Bouillion can skate away or pass the puck when he's not picking himself off the ice.

neither should play again until injury necessitates it... except now you've shot yourself in the foot to insert Tinordi/beaulieu into the lineup.

talk about a high pressure situation to throw a rookie in, especially as a choice ahead of healthy vets.

if MT had the ability to plan, he'd have used the long break to push Tinordi/beaulieu hard, decide which one was most emotionally ready for the playoffs, and then played them in game 1... now, really tough on either to be thrown in to the mix... really tough

how valuable would Beaulieu have been to insert into that 3rd period power play where subban was gassed but played almost the whole shift (and then didn't have him for a few minutes after Bruins responded with post-PK surge.

 

[kernkraft]

Small, but noticeable difference with Murray in the lineup. I hated only Prust (especially) and Bouillon last game. Felt rewarded to see them both removed.

I agree, Beaulieu would be awesome, but way too risky with the stakes now. Maybe in a year from now, it'll be he and Subban going against the Bruins' top line. That's some serious puck moving skill from the back.

 

[CanadienShark]

Equal. It depends on the night because Frankie is a better fit for our system, but is pretty redundant and just not good. Murray serves a purpose and brings a unique skillset, but he's so unbelievably slow he can't keep up.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Playoff hockey it's hands down Murray...

Yeah, I mean, obviously.

 

[c3z4r]

Despite his 3 or so icings today, Murray absolutely crushed the Bruins with his hits. Bergeron was invisible after that hit from Murray.

 

[radicalcenter]

Murray kept Thornton in check at least at the very end of the game tonight

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Despite his 3 or so icings today, Murray absolutely crushed the Bruins with his hits. Bergeron was invisible after that hit from Murray.

Pretty much. Knocked the compete out of him early, like you have to with guys like Bergeron (who will otherwise build on confidence/momentum steadily and become more dangerous as the game goes on).

 

[Habs]

I didn't mind the guy in the regular season, but wow... if we need size maybe Tinordi is a better solution at this point. It's like watching my uncle Gary play defence in the Rec league.

 

[S Bah]

They could always ask me to play, I might end up in jail though after losing my cool! Come to think of it they better stay with more level - headed people playing!

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I didn't mind the guy in the regular season, but wow... if we need size maybe Tinordi is a better solution at this point. It's like watching my uncle Gary play defence in the Rec league.

Not at this point, but soon. Think your uncle Gary would actually step in there with Thornton or Chara?