Value of: Montreal should trade Jake Allen - he's been too good.

[Habs Halifax]

Rather take that 18.5 % than that 1% or whatever it maybe any day of the week. Especially in this coming draft.

The issue here is you don't have high probability to "take" the 18.5%. Every season is different and some teams rise, some fall.

Totally understand what your saying and who wouldn't want a higher % to get Bedard? It's just not probable to tank yourself to last with the roster we have. You don't have the option to "take it" that easily

You're totally undermining the development of the youth on our current roster and rather a loosing culture so you can try to finish last and get lucky. It's tank fever. Lets look at that in Dec/Jan and I'm sure Hughes will as well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not sure I agree

Not sure how you can ignore what Hughes, MSL, and the players have been saying and what they have done this season so far.

They don't have tank strategy (like it or not).

 

[GOilers88]

Doing your best to lose on purpose so you can have an 80% chance at not winning a silly lottery.

What a solid plan for running a professional organization.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Doing your best to lose on purpose so you can have an 80% chance at not winning a silly lottery.

What a solid plan for running a professional organization.

Looks at username

Don't have to win the lottery this y ear to score big. 3-4 franchise players, and a handful of guys that look like they could be stars in their own right. Fun year to be in the mix in the top end of the first.

 

[McJedi]

As has been clear for a while now, Habs will be picking around 9th OA in 2023. Maybe land a nice prospect like Calum Ritchie or Matt Wood.

 

[GOilers88]

Looks at username

View attachment 605860

Don't have to win the lottery this y ear to score big. 3-4 franchise players, and a handful of guys that look like they could be stars in their own right. Fun year to be in the mix in the top end of the first.

Me being an Oilers fan is such a stupid thing to point out for many reasons.

They never actively tried to become worse, they were a terrible, and terribly run team.

The only reason they even won the McDavid draft is because the NHL changed the rules.

And look at how much success those 1st overalls have brought the Oilers. Look at how all those years of losing worked out so well for all those young kids thrust into the roles of savior.

How anyone with half a brain can look at the Edmonton's/Arizona's/Buffalo's of years past and think "oh yeah, we'll do that and we're good!" must be completely braindead.

Not only that, but actively trying to be worse just goes against everything sports are about. It's pathetic, and I'll always think people who would rather see their teams actively try and be worse are just as sad. It's the most unsportsmanlike attitude you could have.

I'd trade McDavid in a heartbeat if it meant the Oilers management was even slightly adept at their jobs and were able to put even a fringe playoff team together over that 10-13 year stretch of complete ass.

 

[ranchand]

The key to a rebuild is establishing a competitive culture and developing within your organization. You dont need 2-3 1OA picks to rebuild successfully. You need to capitalize on your other draft picks that you get in the late 1st 2nd and 3rd rounds. Looks like the Habs have really focused on that judging by their last draft.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

The key to a rebuild is establishing a competitive culture and developing within your organization. You dont need 2-3 1OA picks to rebuild successfully. You need to capitalize on your other draft picks that you get in the late 1st 2nd and 3rd rounds. Looks like the Habs have really focused on that judging by their last draft.

Sure, but netting top talent sure helps.

See:

Tampa with Stamkos and Hedman
Colorado with Mackinnon and Makar

Bedard/Fantilli on ELCs would be game changers.

My personal opinion is that a high sh% and higher than expected goalie performances have accelrated the rebuild, where the underlying numbers say they still need some major pieces.

 

[ranchand]

Sure, but netting top talent sure helps.

See:

Tampa with Stamkos and Hedman
Colorado with Mackinnon and Makar

Bedard/Fantilli on ELCs would be game changers.

My personal opinion is that a high sh% and higher than expected goalie performances have accelrated the rebuild, where the underlying numbers say they still need some major pieces.

No doubt they still need some major pieces, but you cant rely solely on lottery picks to fulfill those needs. Look at the amount of guys picked after the first 15 that have turned into stars for younger upstart teams.

Tuch and Thompson - both mid to late first rounder acquired via trade
Troy terry
Jason Robertson
Tampa drafted point and kuch well into the draft. They dont win their Cups without those guys.
You have to make your non-lottery picks and trade returns really count and if you happen to get lucky and get Bedard/fantilli type players in the process, it surely helps.

 

[Stickpucker]

He shouldn't be too hard to trade. I agree with OP get it done.

Doing your best to lose on purpose so you can have an 80% chance at not winning a silly lottery.

What a solid plan for running a professional organization.

Chicago, TB, Col, Edm, Pitts.

Hum...

Only teams this doesn't apply for are Stl and LA....and LA fleeced Philly in trades to get cups.

 

[Stickpucker]

No doubt they still need some major pieces, but you cant rely solely on lottery picks to fulfill those needs. Look at the amount of guys picked after the first 15 that have turned into stars for younger upstart teams.

Tuch and Thompson - both mid to late first rounder acquired via trade
Troy terry
Jason Robertson
Tampa drafted point and kuch well into the draft. They dont win their Cups without those guys.
You have to make your non-lottery picks and trade returns really count and if you happen to get lucky and get Bedard/fantilli type players in the process, it surely helps.

Okay so getting rid of Allen helps their 1st get higher to get an elite franchise cornerstone IN addition they get a 3rd rd pick they can look for one more shot at a diamond in the rough.

It's double bonus

 

[ranchand]

Okay so getting rid of Allen helps their 1st get higher to get an elite franchise cornerstone IN addition they get a 3rd rd pick they can look for one more shot at a diamond in the rough.

It's double bonus

Not so sure getting rid of Allen changes much. Montembault is playing some good hockey, although probably not sustainable

 

[Captain Mountain]

Okay so getting rid of Allen helps their 1st get higher to get an elite franchise cornerstone IN addition they get a 3rd rd pick they can look for one more shot at a diamond in the rough.

It's double bonus

Montreal's not going to even bother picking up the phone if a 3rd is all they can get for Allen.

Allen's not going to continue being as effective as he has the whole season and Montembault has been better than him thus far in the season, so its not likely to help them be worse in the short term anyways.

 

[GOilers88]

He shouldn't be too hard to trade. I agree with OP get it done.



Chicago, TB, Col, Edm, Pitts.

Hum...

Only teams this doesn't apply for are Stl and LA....and LA fleeced Philly in trades to get cups.

What have all the 1st overalls done for Edmonton exactly?

Having a competant GM and a good scouting and development team will go a lot further for a franchise than intentionally tanking for multiple 1st overalls.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Doing your best to lose on purpose so you can have an 80% chance at not winning a silly lottery.

What a solid plan for running a professional organization.

I call it tank fever. So many Habs fans got attached to us being a sure shot bottom 5 team after a disaster season where we had lots go wrong.

* Emotional let down after putting their heart and soul in the playoff run. Shortened offseason to train.
* Weber and Price go on LTIR. It's likely most of the players left knew this was coming. Affects team confidence/momentum.
* Danault walks after both Bergevin and Habs turn on him. Comments like "Gallagher makes him look better and he's just a 3C"
* KK offer sheet. Trade for Dvorak
* Ducharme couldn't adjust his system and jumps on Caufield's back about "assignments".
* Man games lost was almost historic for us. Goes deeper than just Price and Weber.

* Habs fans love Suzuki/Caufield and our prospect pool/youth but they don't believe they help the team now.
* MSL for a full season.

Yeah, lets rip it apart and not care about the current youth trying to develop on the job. Lets make them suffer cause we want to tank. . Not even the Coyotes are tanking at the moment. Players and coaches don't have tank strategy

 

[malcb33]

Not sure how you can ignore what Hughes, MSL, and the players have been saying and what they have done this season so far.

They don't have tank strategy (like it or not).

They’ve been saying they prioritize development, which I guess is open to interpretation.

Also, how many teams outright say they’re intentionally trying to finish last from the start of the season? Not many, even though it’s obvious they are.

Anyways, the premise of the thread isn’t if the Habs management are purposely trying to tank, isn’t it the value of Jake Allen?

 

[GOilers88]

I call it tank fever. So many Habs fans got attached to us being a sure shot bottom 5 team after a disaster season where we had lots go wrong.

* Emotional let down after putting their heart and soul in the playoff run. Shortened offseason to train.
* Weber and Price go on LTIR. It's likely most of the players left knew this was coming. Affects team confidence/momentum.
* Danault walks after both Bergevin and Habs turn on him. Comments like "Gallagher makes him look better and he's just a 3C"
* KK offer sheet. Trade for Dvorak
* Ducharme couldn't adjust his system and jumps on Caufield's back about "assignments".
* Man games lost was almost historic for us. Goes deeper than just Price and Weber.

* Habs fans love Suzuki/Caufield and our prospect pool/youth but they don't believe they help the team now.
* MSL for a full season.

Yeah, lets rip it apart and not care about the current youth trying to develop on the job. Lets make them suffer cause we want to tank. . Not even the Coyotes are tanking at the moment. Players and coaches don't have tank strategy

Definitely agree with your sentiments. Having guys like Slaf, Suzuki and Caulfield suffer through bad seasons where the team is actively trying to be worse isn't a good thing.

I get it, seeing an Oiler fan, whose team won multiple high end prospects, talk down to tanking might seem rich, but it's exactly why I think it's not only in poor taste but detrimental to the team long term. It's not easy to pull an organization out of an extended nosedive. And it's not fair to ask a bunch of young kids to be the ones to do it. An emphasis on winning, good development, and good scouting/drafting outside of the first round are what makes it happen, at least in my opinion.

If the team is looking at a botton five finish, they'll get there whether they try to actively do worse or not. And if they aren't bad enough to finish at the bottom, i don't think it's a bad thing.

 

[FissionFire]

View attachment 605484

Actually quite shocked that Ville Husso isn’t in the top 10 here.

 

[Captain Mountain]

They’ve been saying they prioritize development, which I guess is open to interpretation.

Also, how many teams outright say they’re intentionally trying to finish last from the start of the season? Not many, even though it’s obvious they are.

Anyways, the premise of the thread isn’t if the Habs management are purposely trying to tank, isn’t it the value of Jake Allen?

Its also hard to do. The two teams who were most nakedly tanking going into the season are 5th and 6th in their division. One of them has a goalie ranked higher in the OP's GSAE list than Allen.

 

[Natey]

I'd rather trade Savard or Edmundson. Both valuable players in their own right and will let us keep 4 rookie defenseman in the lineup. The thing is that the rookies have been pretty good so far, but there's bound to be growing pains eventually.

Exactly. Been saying that at start of the year. Once again we will be stuck in mediocrity forever! We need more top 5 picks and Allen is killing us.
View attachment 605556

Well lucky for you that this draft is basically 20 top-5 picks, so we're fine. We might even get two of them!

 

[Natey]

I call it tank fever. So many Habs fans got attached to us being a sure shot bottom 5 team after a disaster season where we had lots go wrong.

* Emotional let down after putting their heart and soul in the playoff run. Shortened offseason to train.
* Weber and Price go on LTIR. It's likely most of the players left knew this was coming. Affects team confidence/momentum.
* Danault walks after both Bergevin and Habs turn on him. Comments like "Gallagher makes him look better and he's just a 3C"
* KK offer sheet. Trade for Dvorak
* Ducharme couldn't adjust his system and jumps on Caufield's back about "assignments".
* Man games lost was almost historic for us. Goes deeper than just Price and Weber.

* Habs fans love Suzuki/Caufield and our prospect pool/youth but they don't believe they help the team now.
* MSL for a full season.

Yeah, lets rip it apart and not care about the current youth trying to develop on the job. Lets make them suffer cause we want to tank. . Not even the Coyotes are tanking at the moment. Players and coaches don't have tank strategy

Gallagher didn't make him look better than a 3rd line centre. They both had decent chemistry until Gally started getting injured.

But it's not like Danault is some magician either. He's not worth his contract if you have shitty contracts surrounding him. He's an elite shutdown center who can provide some offense. But he's not a #1 center. And even as a #2, you better have a really good offensive first line to spend that much on your #2 center because he himself is not going to drive the offense.

 

[SheldonJPlankton]

Throw a Leaf-style 2016-like tank.

Trade Allen ala Reimer. Trade Offense ala Kessel. Trade Defence ala Phaneuf and Polak. Don't trade for roster players, trade for picks and future prospects. Keep trading until, like the Leafs, you can slide in one point worse than the second worst team.

 

[Tanknation]

I'd rather trade Savard or Edmundson. Both valuable players in their own right and will let us keep 4 rookie defenseman in the lineup. The thing is that the rookies have been pretty good so far, but there's bound to be growing pains eventually.


Well lucky for you that this draft is basically 20 top-5 picks, so we're fine. We might even get two of them!

I rather keep some guys like that to help the kids grow. But it would be nice to acquire some more 1st round picks in 2023 as well and help the tank. Edmundson should easily fetch a 1st at trade deadline.

 

[viceroy]

Let Mon-TANK-Beault lead us, as our great Tank Commander, to the Victory (Connor Bedard)

Dude do you even watch the Habs? Montembeault was doing yeoman's work last year behind our garbage D and has been terrific this year to date.

The whole point is to develop a team that can win - Montreals young core looks great, we have 3 rookie D playing 17-22 mins a night, Suzuki and CC are point per game.

We're keeping our heads out of the water with 4 rookie D-men. I'm impressed.

"If" you finish last. That's the point and if you wanted the Habs to finish last, we had to unload a few guys to insert more youth.

Like I said 4 rookie D. We'd have to go for 5 then. Would that be a record?

I'd rather trade Savard or Edmundson.

Savard was instrumental in boosting Guhle's confidence and leading our D brigade. Same thing for Gallagher. Sure he had a horrendous 21-22 but he's back to playing smash mouth hockey and he really helps with our young forwards' enthusiasm.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Rebuilding teams need solid goaltending. Period. Jake Allen will not be traded.