HF Habs: Montreal Canadiens Hockey Ops - Part 3

[WeThreeKings]

Well of course not but that's different than saying they missed the mark. There really wasn't one

If they had real intentions of doing more than they are doing, they'd throw a lifeline or shake things up. All we heard from Hughes is the long term plan is the long term plan and they won't deviate from that to help the team this season.

Theyll happily take another high draft pick and use this year as a great evaluation point for who can genuinely find a way to make an impact and turn things around and who might not have the mental fortitude to do so.

Plus the only move they made was Laine and he hasn't played a shift. I'm sure they'd love to evaluate how this team plays when everyone is in the chair they anticipated before the season began.

 

[salbutera]

I have serious doubts about MSL.They had a chance to get a real coach who speaks french and they passed.If they really wanted to push this thing along they should have hired Montgomery.If that wouldn't have worked then we could say Hugo may be an issue.It seems we have some very talented players but 80% of them are not playing up to their potential.That is usually a coaching issue.What exactly has MSL done since he has been the head coach?Most of the time the players look like they don't have a clue or like they don't give a shit.

Who is this 80%?

- Suzuki, Slaf, Caufield & Evans are on pace to better their career highs

- Anderson’s back to his career pace & Gallagher’s on track for 30G season a significant improvement

- Guhle is on pace to better last season as is Struble & Hutson is avg 22TOI

- Dvorak after a slow start has picked it up and back on pace for 30-35pts career avg

Might this be more of an issue of managing expectations?

 

[morhilane]

Who is this 80%?

- Suzuki, Slaf, Caufield & Evans are on pace to better their career highs

- Anderson’s back to his career pace & Gallagher’s on track for 30G season a significant improvement

- Guhle is on pace to better last season as is Struble & Hutson is avg 22TOI

- Dvorak after a slow start has picked it up and back on pace for 30-35pts career avg

Might this be more of an issue of managing expectations?

I think it's more that some posters are still in October despite November ending today.

Reading this sub-forum, some posts read like the Habs lost their last 10 games. They played for .500 in the last 10 with a record of 4-2-1 in their last 7 games. They were at the bottom of Moneypuck Power Ranking at the start of November, they climbing up and are now 21st. But I'm still seeing fans complaining about the Habs being at the bottom in advanced stats.

 

[Lshap]

I think it's more that some posters are still in October despite November ending today.

Reading this sub-forum, some posts read like the Habs lost their last 10 games. They played for .500 in the last 10 with a record of 4-2-1 in their last 7 games. They were at the bottom of Moneypuck Power Ranking at the start of November, they climbing up and are now 21st. But I'm still seeing fans complaining about the Habs being at the bottom in advanced stats.

And the last 8-10 games is exactly what most of us expected – progress. Nobody seriously thought we were making the playoffs (even if we saw it as a distant, best-case possibility). I was in the camp that simply wanted to see the kids be a little better than they were last season, and that's exactly what we're slowly starting to see. That's what a rebuild should look like. It should NOT look like a futile churning of prospects who can't develop themselves out of the bottom-5.

Our roster is already full of young draft picks. I'd rather see them improve and win than defer all progress onto the backs of future draft picks.

 

[ReHabs]

All we heard from Hughes is the long term plan is the long term plan and they won't deviate from that to help the team this season.

In other words: the Habs GM won't mortgage the future.

 

[HuGort]

Who is this 80%?

- Suzuki, Slaf, Caufield & Evans are on pace to better their career highs

- Anderson’s back to his career pace & Gallagher’s on track for 30G season a significant improvement

- Guhle is on pace to better last season as is Struble & Hutson is avg 22TOI

- Dvorak after a slow start has picked it up and back on pace for 30-35pts career avg

Might this be more of an issue of managing expectations?

Team not playing well though. A few have done alright but most haven't.

About 3 years in and we gone in reverse. Habs should be looking for better front office.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Team not playing well though. A few have done alright but most haven't.

About 3 years in and we gone in reverse. Habs should be looking for better front office.

You can count on one finger the amount of teams that got out of a rebuild in 3 years and you won't like their playoff history.

 

[ReHabs]

You can count on one finger the amount of teams that got out of a rebuild in 3 years and you won't like their playoff history.

Reasons to become more critical of the Habs GM:
1. A majority of his acquisitions are not progressing (Dach, Newhook, Barron)
2. His handpicked coach is not progressing
3. His non-sales have declined in performance and value (Monty, Savard, Matheson, Anderson)

These are all legitimate marks against the guys leading the rebuild, which means the rebuild can and should be questioned and individual decisions challenged. Note it has nothing to do with the team’s pt% or whatever.

If we accept that his decision-making cannot be taken for granted, then we have cause to re-evaluate his draft and development decisions too.

We can’t back out of the rebuild now, that’s for sure, but maybe we don’t have the right guys at helm leading it. I’d hate to see Demidov delivered to the wrong people.

Other than the players they inherited, they’ve mostly messed up or got players who haven’t progressed. Reminds me of Bergevin.

 

[Egresch]

Reasons to become more critical of the Habs GM:
1. A majority of his acquisitions are not progressing (Dach, Newhook, Barron)
2. His handpicked coach is not progressing
3. His non-sales have declined in performance and value (Monty, Savard, Matheson, Anderson)

Monty is OK, give him some backup and he will get even better. I am not saying he will be a starter for us when we start rolling, but he is NHL average starter.
Anderson is way better this season, he finally play where he belongs (outside top6). He might be traded in the summer, once cap goes up we might not even need retention.
The word I am scared with this management is "accountability". There is a lack of accountability accross the organization. HuGo should have traded for backup G month ago, made some marginal moves . Some players are untouchables for MSL and looks like he is very rarely challenged by his bosses, nobody fired Burrows or Robidas, Matheson should have been benched yesterday...

 

[ReHabs]

Monty is OK, give him some backup and he will get even better. I am not saying he will be a starter for us when we start rolling, but he is NHL average starter.
Anderson is way better this season, he finally play where he belongs (outside top6). He might be traded in the summer, once cap goes up we might not even need retention.

Monty and Anderson are both worth less today than they were at different points during Hughes’ tenure. Not saying Monty should’ve been sold at all costs but the overall regression is a point against Hughes.

We are rebuilding, why did he hold onto Anderson so long? Guy was rubbish for so long.

The word I am scared with this management is "accountability". There is a lack of accountability accross the organization. HuGo should have traded for backup G month ago, made some marginal moves . Some players are untouchables for MSL and looks like he is very rarely challenged by his bosses, nobody fired Burrows or Robidas, Matheson should have been benched yesterday...

100%

Country club. I really hated that he signed and acquired his former clients. I would’ve been far more impressed if he purposefully avoided players and staff he had business relationships with prior. I know it’s impossible to not hire your connections and contacts but Hughes did more than the usual expected amount of nepotism.

Zero accountability might as well sink a rebuild before it completes.

 

[hvac412]

Monty and Anderson are both worth less today than they were at different points during Hughes’ tenure. Not saying Monty should’ve been sold at all costs but the overall regression is a point against Hughes.

We are rebuilding, why did he hold onto Anderson so long? Guy was rubbish for so long.

100%

Country club. I really hated that he signed and acquired his former clients. I would’ve been far more impressed if he purposefully avoided players and staff he had business relationships with prior. I know it’s impossible to not hire your connections and contacts but Hughes did more than the usual expected amount of nepotism.

Zero accountability might as well sink a rebuild before it completes.

The product is unwatchable at this point and it looks like management is going to let the fans suffer through another painful season of this pathetically bad coaching staff.Bravo JG & KH ,your once again the laughing stock of the NHL

 

[Egresch]

Zero accountability might as well sink a rebuild before it completes.

That is my main concern, if they continue like this they will turn to Leafs instead of Golden Khights scenario. This TDL will be a huge indicator. If we trade away Savard, Dvorak, Armia, Evans and even Matheson. In the summer, we need to acquire RHD and 2C. If they do not address these obvious needs, I would be very concerned.
Newhook trade was useless from the very begining.

 

[Vachon23]

I agree that the lack of accountability is the biggest weakness if this management and we can’t stay on that pat if we want to build a winning culture

 

[morhilane]

That is my main concern, if they continue like this they will turn to Leafs instead of Golden Khights scenario. This TDL will be a huge indicator. If we trade away Savard, Dvorak, Armia, Evans and even Matheson. In the summer, we need to acquire RHD and 2C. If they do not address these obvious needs, I would be very concerned.
Newhook trade was useless from the very begining.

I think the plan was for Newhook to become the 3rd line center and replace Dvorak and, at the end of last season, he was looking fine at center. No idea what is the problem this season.

Dvorak is 100% gone, even if not traded, I never got the impression he wanted to stay here.

Savard is done, if Hughes tries to extend/re-sign him, he's just clueless.

Armia will have value at the TDL for a playoffs team who needs to improve their PK.
Evans will be the most sought after commodity at the TDL on the Habs line-up.

I expect Matheson to get extended at this point...

I think the plan has become "do like Buffalo" this off-season, that is replace vets leaving by young prospects.

 

[ReHabs]

I think the plan has become "do like Buffalo" this off-season, that is replace vets leaving by young prospects.

I hope not. What kind of culture would those young players step into? No accountability whatsoever, across the board regression by the young players, a coach who is unproven at this level. Even a rebuilding team needs good vets who are professional and serious. Our roster is inconsistent enough.

 

[hvac412]

That is my main concern, if they continue like this they will turn to Leafs instead of Golden Khights scenario. This TDL will be a huge indicator. If we trade away Savard, Dvorak, Armia, Evans and even Matheson. In the summer, we need to acquire RHD and 2C. If they do not address these obvious needs, I would be very concerned.
Newhook trade was useless from the very begining.

Same can be said of Barron,but is it the players or the famous “concepts”.Were seeing to many players going sour.This is not a rebuild anymore it’s a predictable disaster unfolding .Would a coach with NO experience not named Marty St.Louis still have a job with this record ? Probably not.

 

[Egresch]

I expect Matheson to get extended at this point...

Now, that would be a big red flag on Hughes for me. Guhle and Hutson more or less proved they can play top4 minutes. Plus we still have Xhekaj, Struble and Engstrom in pipeline for LHD. We need stabilizing RHD and not high-risk LHD.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Same can be said of Barron,but is it the players or the famous “concepts”.Were seeing to many players going sour.This is not a rebuild anymore it’s a predictable disaster unfolding .Would a coach with NO experience not named Marty St.Louis still have a job with this record ? Probably not.

Yes because rebuilding teams with no hope of the playoffs don't fire their coaches for not doing something that is impossible with the roster they have.

His modus operandi is to develop the young players, there's some ups and downs with that.

But name the alternatives we have right now, because you won't like what is available to us. The problem is Montgomery got fired too early and now we have 0 viable options.

 

[Saundies]

There's patience and then there's just sunk cost fallacy.

Patience is being demonstrated with a guy like Heineman; they traded for him, put him in the AHL, he played well, came into camp this year, got a spot, and is improving as the season goes along. He's not lighting it up every night but his game has progressed fairly linearly since his trade. He's earned his opportunities and is making the most.

Sunk cost fallacy is being demonstrated with Primeau. For some reason, management has moved heaven and earth to not only keep this guy but give him opportunities he hasn't earned. The three-goalie cluster eff last season, him making it over Dobes this camp when Dobes had a better one, and now keeping him up and putting him into games when he's clearly not performing up to par. I'd say out of 64 goalies in the NHL, he's probably #64 in terms of ability and readiness.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

32 thoughts

Friedman - I was told by reporters in Montreal that they've never seen Gorton that mad before.

 

[morhilane]

32 thoughts

Friedman - I was told by reporters in Montreal that they've never seen Gorton that mad before.

What is he mad about?

Please tell me it's Matheson playing like crap, because that usually means getting traded ASAP.

 

[Schooner Guy]

Yes because rebuilding teams with no hope of the playoffs don't fire their coaches for not doing something that is impossible with the roster they have.

His modus operandi is to develop the young players, there's some ups and downs with that.

But name the alternatives we have right now, because you won't like what is available to us. The problem is Montgomery got fired too early and now we have 0 viable options.

Also it's well documented that St Louis was Montgomery's ideal destination. There is no way he would have come here with the Blues courting him.

Maybe Tourigny will become available at some point.

 

[Tyson]

What the heck were they thinking trading away a 6"5 RD for nothing? What a monumental blunder. Keefe recently said they were surprised at how good he actually is. Our management couldn't see that?

 

[ReHabs]

What the heck were they thinking trading away a 6"5 RD for nothing? What a monumental blunder. Keefe recently said they were surprised at how good he actually is. Our management couldn't see that?

Well, Hughes couldn't possible trade away Savard and miss out on the super lockerroom culture that he is single-handedly holding together.

Tbf, Kovacevic is playing for a big payday since he's been so underpaid so far. I'm happy for him getting a chance. Shame he couldn't show it with the Habs, he never really played like a 6'5" beast for us... though neither does Slaf.

 

[Miller Time]

You can count on one finger the amount of teams that got out of a rebuild in 3 years and you won't like their playoff history.

Not to mention that it's rare for a team to hit rock bottom (dead last) with a roster that is cap maxed with vets mostly on long term deals.

Petry, Hoffman, Gallagher, Anderson, Armia, Dvorak, Savard, Chiarot, Toffoli... 38M$

Plus ltir Price & Weber. 18M$

It's as if some fans have a complete memory gap of just how bad the organization situation was 3 years ago.

Now we've got one of the best U25 & groups in the league, a good cap situation that is going to get better and better the next 2 summers, and a vastly improved reputation.

Future is bright