Monahan dilemma, to sign or not to sign?

[BehindTheTimes]

If we trade him for the futures we want and he ends up signing somewhere else, so be it. Keep the cap space open and there will be other centers we can try to add later once we really know the holes in the line-up. Got to manage who Slaf is playing with (if not Suzuki) but we should not be hooked on the idea that Monahan is the cup contender solution. Other options will come at a later date when the timing is more right.



Younger players development like Slaf is a factor no doubt. But we are also thinking Monahan is 100% healthy in the next 3 or 4 years as well? It could back fire on us if we keep Monahan and sign him to 3 or 4 years at $5M and it ends up not working like we think it will after this season.

Save the cap space and take the futures. There will be other centers that we can add or we draft one.

Depends on what you think the time line is. Where is this 3-5 years coming from? We won't be taking that long, we could be in the playoffs as early as next year and competing within 2 years.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I posted a "Healthy Monahan vs Danault" value thread on the main boards. Interesting comments and very curious to see what fans outside of Montreal and LA have to say about it.

Depends on what you think the time line is. Where is this 3-5 years coming from? We won't be taking that long, we could be in the playoffs as early as next year and competing within 2 years.

I think we might slip next year but in the next 3-5 years we move to playoffs or bubble area. I think our real window to compete for a cup is when Slaf (and players close to his age) is Suzuki/Caufield's age today. That's 3-5 years more time.

Avs and Tampa won cups when most of their core is 25-30 age range. Reality

Also, I hate when HF boards group posts like this cause they were made one after another but two separate conversations.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

2 repaired Labrums is always inferior to 2 Labrums the way God made them.. Value is high now. Sell!

Outcomes​

In comparison to labral debridement (with concomitant FAI treatment for both groups), labral repair has consistently demonstrated significantly better subjective patient-reported outcomes (Harris Hip Score, SF-12, and VAS pain) at a mean 3.5-year follow-up [50]. In addition, 92 % of subjects and 68 % of the subjects in the repair and debridement groups, respectively, reported good to excellent results.
Curr Rev Musculoskelet Med. 2016 Dec; 9(4): 361–367.
Published online 2016 Aug 31. doi: 10.1007/s12178-016-9360-9
PMCID: PMC5127940
PMID: 27581790

Hip labral repair: options and outcomes​

Joshua D. Harris

1,2

Hip labral repair: options and outcomes - PMC

The importance of the acetabular labrum has been increasingly recognized, playing a critical role in both normal anatomy and abnormal pathology of the hip joint. The labrum increases acetabular surface area and volume, providing a stable and durable ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks, Dr Wong.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Age 28 today won't be part of our core in 5 years. 28 in 5 years will. That's the difference

Either way, Monahan is younger than Anderson

 

[LaP]

Either way, Monahan is younger than Anderson

One is signed long term and the other is not.

If Monahan would be signed for 3 more years and Anderson UFA i'd argue we have to trade Anderson and keep Monahan..

 

[BaseballCoach]

One is signed long term and the other is not.

If Monahan would be signed for 3 more years and Anderson UFA i'd argue we have to trade Anderson and keep Monahan..

Understood, but an option remains to sign Monahan to a reasonable deal (four years max to match Anderson) and trade Anderson instead.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Understood, but an option remains to sign Monahan to a reasonable deal (four years max to match Anderson) and trade Anderson instead.

Trade both if we get the return we want and keep Dvorak, Gallagher, Savard for your "Vet" narrative.

 

[Colezuki]

In my mind its even simpler, we have prime monahan right now, we're still not able to get out of middle of the pack. To me that suggests we need to let him go and eventually let kirby slide into the 2 slot

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Understood, but an option remains to sign Monahan to a reasonable deal (four years max to match Anderson) and trade Anderson instead.

Monahan gives us a second line and a more potent PP in a way that Anderson does not. If the orthopedists view his hips as robust enough to play at his current high level and he is not overly greedy in term and salary, it's worth having a chat with him. It's not a given that the team (or the Panthers) will finish low enough to get one of the top centers in round 1, especially one with size. To me, he's worth keeping for similar reasons than we elected to trade pick 13 for Dach, though Dach is obviously younger. A mix of size, skill and compete that complements the Caufields and Farrells. That said, I don't advocate trading Anderson either, unless a ridiculous offer comes along.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Trade both if we get the return we want and keep Dvorak, Gallagher, Savard for your "Vet" narrative.

Monahan brings more than Dvorak, a lot more. The only question for me is if we can afford him or will he outprice himself?

 

[Wats]

Depends on return, if you can't get more than a 2nd and he's willing to re-sign at a decent contract, keep him.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Understood, but an option remains to sign Monahan to a reasonable deal (four years max to match Anderson) and trade Anderson instead.

Monahan gives us a second line and a more potent PP in a way that Anderson does not. If the orthopedists view his hips as robust enough to play at his current high level and he is not overly greedy in term and salary, it's worth having a chat with him. It's not a given that the team (or the Panthers) will finish low enough to get one of the top centers in round 1, especially one with size. To me, he's worth keeping for similar reasons than we elected to trade pick 13 for Dach, though Dach is obviously younger. A mix of size, skill and compete that complements the Caufields and Farrells. That said, I don't advocate trading Anderson either, unless a ridiculous offer comes along.

Monahan brings more than Dvorak, a lot more. The only question for me is if we can afford him or will he outprice himself?

That's pretty much it. Is he grateful and appreciative of playing under MSL enough to give the team a friendly deal, or does he view this as his last kick at the can while adopting a mercenary attitude?

 

[MasterD]

Outcomes​

In comparison to labral debridement (with concomitant FAI treatment for both groups), labral repair has consistently demonstrated significantly better subjective patient-reported outcomes (Harris Hip Score, SF-12, and VAS pain) at a mean 3.5-year follow-up [50]. In addition, 92 % of subjects and 68 % of the subjects in the repair and debridement groups, respectively, reported good to excellent results.
Curr Rev Musculoskelet Med. 2016 Dec; 9(4): 361–367.
Published online 2016 Aug 31. doi: 10.1007/s12178-016-9360-9
PMCID: PMC5127940
PMID: 27581790

Hip labral repair: options and outcomes​

Joshua D. Harris

1,2

Hip labral repair: options and outcomes - PMC

The importance of the acetabular labrum has been increasingly recognized, playing a critical role in both normal anatomy and abnormal pathology of the hip joint. The labrum increases acetabular surface area and volume, providing a stable and durable ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks, Dr Wong.

The original post meant repaired labrum vs never injured labrum.

Your study compares labrum repair vs labrum debridement.

And there's a huge gap in comparing a study on general population to high end athletes. The baseline health level is probably higher in a Monaham-type of athlete vs the typical overweight 28 years old, but the stress he's gonna put on his hips in the next few years is also not comparable.

 

[Rapala]

You don't think Barron amd Heineman are good prospects?

Getting prospects good or otherwise is just that a prospect. You have to be careful when dealing with a proven commodity. So far neither Barron nor Heineman have done enough to crack the line up and Heineman would do well put some injury free time in.

 

[Andrewcoursol]

I am quite objective on Monahan. I appreciate the player, he is what we wanted Dvorak to be, AND MORE.

I'm aware we are in a rebuild, and while I think he can contribute to it, it has to be on cap friendly terms.

2 years $10.5M = 5.25
3 years $14.0M = 4.67
4 years $17.0M = 4.25
5 years $19.5M = 3.90

I am not one of the guys saying long-term at big money.

And if we re-sign him, we trade Dvorak.

Ideally I would talk to Monahan near the trade deadline, this allows both the team and player to have more time to evaluate things, Hugo can than talk openly about how they see things moving forward contract wise, and Monahan has a better perspective regarding making Montreal home for up to 5 years, part of the negotiations could involve a ready to sign contract in a drawer to be pulled out at free agency, or test the market and come back to us, but i think Monahan would be ok with a playoff run with a contender if the habs are falling short come trade deadline,it would allow the habs to get more picks/prospects and Monahan may want to get traded to a team in the other conference hoping to play against the Flames. also you do not insult the guy with a contract offer making less than dvorak and Dach, 5 years at 5 million per is a bargain, for what he delivers, it is worth offering even if he goes on LTIR at some point, remembering that the cap is going up, plus what do players like him command salary wise.

 

[MasterD]

Trade both if we get the return we want and keep Dvorak, Gallagher, Savard for your "Vet" narrative.

Please God no.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

The original post meant repaired labrum vs never injured labrum.

Your study compares labrum repair vs labrum debridement.

And there's a huge gap in comparing a study on general population to high end athletes. The baseline health level is probably higher in a Monaham-type of athlete vs the typical overweight 28 years old, but the stress he's gonna put on his hips in the next few years is also not comparable.

It does, but it also provides repair outcome statistics that are meaningful without referring to debridement. 92% good to excellent outcomes at 3.5 years. It's simply that there are two cohorts, which makes it a complicated statement.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Please God no.

It's going to happen but they won't be here when we are set to compete for a cup. Competing for playoffs is not the same as for a cup.

 

[Rapala]

Could the Pens or Washington want him?

I feel like he'd be a good fit on those older, but can't stop trying teams. They can sign him and don't care if he declines because their own core is gonna be on the decline anyway, and they're not currently trying to rebuild.

Both teams do have solid to decent centers though - maybe Montreal could deal for a Dylan Strome if the Caps prefer Monahan's game and if they can't resign Strome?

Or, you go the rental route and deal him to a solid team in need of a C very badly - Colorado (2nd C is Compher) or Minnesota (badly need a C), maybe even Dallas that plays Faksa in their top 6.

I don't see the point for Montreal though, they're not in need of a Monahan, he's good but not that valuable to the franchise.

Looking at the current SC Champs they absolutely need someone like Monahan. They sure haven't replaced Kadri. Sakic has to be banking on being able to pick up a Toews or a Monahan.

 

[LaP]

Understood, but an option remains to sign Monahan to a reasonable deal (four years max to match Anderson) and trade Anderson instead.

We have too many top 9 vets moving forward if we sign Monahan. I'd trade the one with the highest value. If Anderson can return more then trade him and sign Monahan.

Priority should be to keep improving the prospect pool while keeping enough vets in the team. The identity of who we trade i don't care much. I care more about the return. But at least one vet has to go if we sign Monahan.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Trade both if we get the return we want and keep Dvorak, Gallagher, Savard for your "Vet" narrative.

I think we are stuck with Gally untiil he retires or is permanent LTIR.

Dvorak should be traded before his final season to get draft picks at the 2024 draft, or earlier if we re-sign Monahan.

Savard I would trade before his final year, with retention to generate a return.

 

[BaseballCoach]

We have too many top 9 vets moving forward if we sign Monahan. I'd trade the one with the highest value. If Anderson can return more then trade him and sign Monahan.

Priority should be to keep improving the prospect pool while keeping enough vets in the team. The identity of who we trade i don't care much. I care more about the return. But at least one vet has to go if we sign Monahan.

I think we could have two out of nine be 28-30 years old.

But yes I would prioritize Monahan over both Dvorak and Anderson.

Ideally I would talk to Monahan near the trade deadline, this allows both the team and player to have more time to evaluate things, Hugo can than talk openly about how they see things moving forward contract wise, and Monahan has a better perspective regarding making Montreal home for up to 5 years, part of the negotiations could involve a ready to sign contract in a drawer to be pulled out at free agency, or test the market and come back to us, but i think Monahan would be ok with a playoff run with a contender if the habs are falling short come trade deadline,it would allow the habs to get more picks/prospects and Monahan may want to get traded to a team in the other conference hoping to play against the Flames. also you do not insult the guy with a contract offer making less than dvorak and Dach, 5 years at 5 million per is a bargain, for what he delivers, it is worth offering even if he goes on LTIR at some point, remembering that the cap is going up, plus what do players like him command salary wise.

Anderson contract is 4 more years at $5.5M. I could live with that for Monahan if we trade Anderson for a first or equivalent.

 

[abo9]

Looking at the current SC Champs they absolutely need someone like Monahan. They sure haven't replaced Kadri. Sakic has to be banking on being able to pick up a Toews or a Monahan.

Yeah I see many teams being interested, not many quality C's available. Now the question is, who gives more? Colorado who wants a rental, or a team willing to extend him?

Plus, Monahan is by all accounts a huge competitor, he's not a Tatar that has no value to a playoff team...

 

[LaP]

I think we could have two out of nine be 28-30 years old.

But yes I would prioritize Monahan over both Dvorak and Anderson.

Absolutely. But with Monahan, Dvorak, Anderson and Gallagher that's 4 (5 if you count Hoffman). That's too many imo. Dvorak is not 28 yet but he will turn 28 in the middle of next season.

Gallagher is untradeable. Hard to know the value of Anderson. HIs value should be low but players like him usually are overvalued. I'll let KH decide but keeping everyone would disappoint me.

 

[BaseballCoach]

a Suzuki/Dubois/Monahan center line would be pretty slick.

Actually since all three plus Dach can play both C and Wing, we could even load up all four plus Caufield and Slaf and have two first lines.

Trade Anderson, Eddy and Dvora for firsts if possible.

Farrell-Beck-Heineman line 3. Possibly Mesar and up to seven more first round picks by 2024 in the pipeline assuring long-term competitiveness.

Absolutely. But with Monahan, Dvorak, Anderson and Gallagher that's 4 (5 if you count Hoffman). That's too many imo. Dvorak is not 28 yet but he will turn 28 in the middle of next season.

Gallagher is untradeable. Hard to know the value of Anderson. HIs value should be low but players like him usually are overvalued. I'll let KH decide but keeping everyone would disappoint me.

You said in the top-9. Gallagher will not be n the top-9 within a year.