Carltons Cup
Let's Do This..
- Feb 22, 2018
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Mo Rielly - "Our Norris Trophy Candidate"
- Thread starter Carltons Cup
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SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
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Well he is a Norris trophy candidate. He could possibly even finish top 10, but I doubt he wins.
That being said, calling him a "crapshoot" in his own end is a major overstatement. He has high defensive IQ. That doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes or does not take risks that don't pan out, but this guy is not anything like Gardiner or Barrie were in their own zone. Those guys were real crapshoots in their own end.
If Rielly was also a top PKer, he would probably be playing 26-27 minutes a night, which is the most any top defenseman plays unless the rest of their defense is awful and unreliable. Since I think we are doing pretty well with Brodie, Bogosian, Holl, and Muzzin as our main 4 PK guys, I think it is good that we do not need to parade Rielly out for the PK all the time.
That being said, calling him a "crapshoot" in his own end is a major overstatement. He has high defensive IQ. That doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes or does not take risks that don't pan out, but this guy is not anything like Gardiner or Barrie were in their own zone. Those guys were real crapshoots in their own end.
If Rielly was also a top PKer, he would probably be playing 26-27 minutes a night, which is the most any top defenseman plays unless the rest of their defense is awful and unreliable. Since I think we are doing pretty well with Brodie, Bogosian, Holl, and Muzzin as our main 4 PK guys, I think it is good that we do not need to parade Rielly out for the PK all the time.
Spirit of 67
Registered User
Carltons Cup
Let's Do This..
- Feb 22, 2018
- 2,909
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Outrage?
How about you try "reading" what I wrote. Or shall I give you the cliff notes version so you can understand my actual point?
Wafflewhipper
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2014
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Morgs is a mediocre hockey IQ when he gets flustered. He was a giveaway machine last night because the team was not playing to a plan and trying to force everything. They have been forcing the game. Maybe spread out to much,not enough close support,forwards have not supported defense as well lately. I seen all kinds of things slip personally.
Tired out a bit? They were but they were frustrated and playing mad and playing panicked hockey. That all started with Andersens play in net causing this.
Andersen caused every bit of this drip in confidence. The guy has deflated this group over and over again most of the year. It finally caught up to them. We need a #1 goalie
Spirit of 67
Registered User
I did read it.
Then I stared at it for 5 minutes wondering why there is a thread for this.
I will apologize for suggesting you have fake outrage.
It's fake "bothered."
Carry on.
Not a chance in da world ... he had 2 glorious chances to really help team out last night with goals Petry would score with his eyes closed ... one he hits bar with complete open net other he shoots wide and high ... a top flight offensive D man gets both of those goals but absolute minimum 1 of them ... then near end of game he misses net completely and our last gasp chance fades away to tie game ... folks a #1 offensive guy does not behave in this way ever ... and I am not even talking about him causing 1 goal by shooting his pansy *ss wrister up boards for a total giveaway for 1 of sens goals either ... or his defensive weaknesses in his own end due to lack of strength and defensive IQ/understanding ... quite frankly folks he is not even #2 on our own team ... I put him behind Brodie and Muzzy
Carltons Cup
Let's Do This..
- Feb 22, 2018
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I guess the topic fake "bothers" you so much that you need to comment.
If you don't care for the topic, then yes carry on elsewhere
Spirit of 67
Registered User
Carltons Cup
Let's Do This..
- Feb 22, 2018
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Fogelhund
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2007
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The problem here is your definition of a "Norris trophy candidate", is not compatible with the actual definition. It's pretty much always gone to offensive D men, whether they are good in their own zone, or not.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Eh, it’s not that crazy. He’s put up 70 points in a season in the past which puts you in the conversation. He’s got his flaws processing the game and is no prime Nicklas Lidstrom, that’s for sure. My biggest hope is he can be a prime Kris Letang on a Penguins championship run. Just give us the best hockey of your life in a two month window at some point.
Buds17
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2015
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Candidate in the sense that he's the best defenceman on the Leafs, maybe? Not sure of the manner in which that was intended. He ranks well in a few categories. I wouldn't consider him a finalist at this point though. Lidstrom was the best defenceman playing during a time in which I was able to grasp what I was witnessing effectively enough. Not many blueliners have been better than him throughout the NHL's history.
He's not great defensively, not going to argue that. But he's nowhere near the tire fire that he's made out to be. He's attentive to coverage, uses an active stick to break up plays, and is capable along the boards. He gambles for offense by joining in rushes which can lead to getting caught up ice, attempts risky breakout passes that get picked off, and sometimes blows the zone early. He also makes the mistakes that every single defenseman in the league does, including the elite ones, which include blown coverages, getting walked, or bad turnovers. He does these more than Pietrangelo or Hedman do, but they do not play mistake free hockey. It's on fans to understand that when evaluating their own players; expectations must be realistic.
The important thing with Rielly is that the offense he brings far outweighs his moderate defensive shortcomings. I was looking at the stats the other day and at ES he had something like 62% xGF and 66% high danger chances since the start of February. (For the whole season he's at 55%xGF and 56% HDCF) The point is that he brings so, so much to the table. He might be below average defensively for a top pairing defender, but he's astonishingly good offensively.
What I've been writing in all of these Rielly threads is that we're an offensive team built around superstar forwards. Having a defenseman like Rielly who can play elite level offense to go with our top forwards is absolutely huge and we would be desperate to get a guy like him if we didn't have one. It's not an accident that he plays 2 minutes a game more than any other defenseman we have. We've got a real nice top4 going and 3/4 of them are really quite good defensively. Having an offensive catalyst like Rielly gives us a nice balance of abilities and is integral to the type of team that Keefe and Dubas want to see on the ice. Sure, it would be nice if Rielly could defend like Brodie or Muzzin do, but we don't need him to be Lidstrom to be our #1. He's really a fantastic hockey player.
The important thing with Rielly is that the offense he brings far outweighs his moderate defensive shortcomings. I was looking at the stats the other day and at ES he had something like 62% xGF and 66% high danger chances since the start of February. (For the whole season he's at 55%xGF and 56% HDCF) The point is that he brings so, so much to the table. He might be below average defensively for a top pairing defender, but he's astonishingly good offensively.
What I've been writing in all of these Rielly threads is that we're an offensive team built around superstar forwards. Having a defenseman like Rielly who can play elite level offense to go with our top forwards is absolutely huge and we would be desperate to get a guy like him if we didn't have one. It's not an accident that he plays 2 minutes a game more than any other defenseman we have. We've got a real nice top4 going and 3/4 of them are really quite good defensively. Having an offensive catalyst like Rielly gives us a nice balance of abilities and is integral to the type of team that Keefe and Dubas want to see on the ice. Sure, it would be nice if Rielly could defend like Brodie or Muzzin do, but we don't need him to be Lidstrom to be our #1. He's really a fantastic hockey player.
Crosscrease14
Registered User
- Dec 16, 2014
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Eh the bolded is a real stretch for me. I like Rielly as a player, have for a long time, but imo his hockey IQ has always held him back. He's a gym beast and he's undoubtedly skilled but he makes some poor decisions that leave you scratching your head. He's not Jake Gardiner but he's not a Norris candidate either in my books.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
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Here's a secret - many, many norris trophy winners have been quite mediocre defensively, and many have received more sheltered defensive usage than Rielly has, including big names like Hedman.
socko
Registered User
Everyone who wants to get rid of this guy is crazy.
I'm not sure how a guy who isn't the best defenseman on your team is a Norris candidate. But whatever. He's decent, some nights really good. The odd man rushes against him take him out of Norris consideration.
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
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I have no idea how you can say this when you have a direct comparison in Brodie absolutely blowing him out of the water defensively. As much as I like Brodie, it's not like he's top-5 defensive IQ in the league or anything, he's just a good first pair D in the 15-20 range defensively.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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Not the best dman on the team?
- most minutes
- toughest usage/qoc
- best offensive numbers (by a lot)
- best xgf%
Kurtz
Registered User
- Jul 17, 2005
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There are no Lidstrom's in today's league.
More recently Norris has gone to some offensive dmen who were worse than Mo in their own end - ie Karlsson x2, Subban. Josi won it last year and I don't know if he's much better defensively than Mo.
CantLoseWithMatthews
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2015
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the Leafs do have a potential norris candidate, but it's Rielly's partner
Don’t you actually have to be good to be a Norris trophy candidate and not a turnover, puck flubbing machine?
Letang has amazing hands to go with fast feet ... Rielly is faster but his hands are not even on same planet as Letang
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
- Apr 27, 2018
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