The Rapids (Kroenke sports) owns their RSN so I can't see them signing off on a deal that pulls them, but then again they've been off Comcast for two years.
MLS going all-digital with 10-year Apple deal
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BKIslandersFan
F*** off
They don’t need MLS but during summer they could definitely use time filler, considering they only have MLB once a week? And its cheap.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
I know, I know… and the workaround to that is the NFL’s pregame shows (not sure I’ve ever seen them pre-empted). Doesn’t ESPN only schedule NHL games on weeknights? I suspect the league only pre-empty itself. NBA… perhaps the same.
WE WANT OUR 3-HOUR PREGAME SHOW!
They have enough potential filler programming if you include Golf, Volleyball, CFL (XFL next year?), UFC events, Formula one events, and NBA summer league. I think that's enough for filler programming for a month or two which typically low summer viewership across the board.
IU Hawks fan
They call me IU
They also have USL, which on ESPN got better ratings than MLS on ESPN2 and more than doubled what MLS got on FS1 this weekend. Got similar/not too far off what MLS has averaged on ESPN this season.
I had no idea USL ratings were so close to MLS. I remember when USL and MLS were on par a decade or two ago where USL teams beat MLS teams. I thought the gap widened for tv ratings by now. I guess I was wrong.
ESPN can easily fill in the MLS gap with USL for cheaper too.
I know, I know… and the workaround to that is the NFL’s pregame shows (not sure I’ve ever seen them pre-empted). Doesn’t ESPN only schedule NHL games on weeknights? I suspect the league only pre-empty itself. NBA… perhaps the same.
WE WANT OUR 3-HOUR PREGAME SHOW!
Monday Night Countdown (MNF pregame) has been bumped to ESPN2 a handful of times throughout the years. ESPN had a Sunday NHL game late in the season and other than Black Friday the ABC games are on Saturdays. Weeknight has stuff bumped too, all the time, though usually college sports. MLB has had Sunday Night Baseball bumped to ESPN2, too.
But yes, the pregame window is the buffer, though even that doesn't always work. Specifically when MLS has followed NASCAR on FOX/FS1 since NASCAR historically goes over the timeslot, and usually way over, such as an hour. So when NASCAR goes an hour over, the 30 min MLS pregame and first 30 min of the first half get bumped to FS2.
Regardless, something practically all sports deal with. More popular the sport and/or event of course less chance of it happening since they get it in their contracts, but obviously not something that only happens to MLS.
Yup, plus all the stuff you listed. It would be good for MLS to get 50m from ESPN and it may happen but I can't see why they would since they get similar or better from much cheaper content.
Even with their ABC summer-filler sports stuff, Premier Lacrosse League got 452k this Saturday, MLS got 450k for their first Saturday ABC game this season, and this past weekend got 541k on ABC. So you can throw on PLL and get in the same range as you get for MLS. Or more WNBA games, which beats MLS on ABC in the same Saturday time slot they both get -- same slot NHL has on ABC.
And for ESPN/2, you can get double what you get from MLS from sportscenter during the day, or get similar ratings or slightly less but not enough of a difference from USL, PLL, Red Bull Cliff Diving, or any some random sports content which currently is significantly cheaper.
Which ESPN/2 filler during the summer reminds me of when I was a kid and when it was too hot out or I had already been outside all morning so inside just laying around in front of the TV and watching WRHL (go Aztecs!) or later Pro Beach Hockey. Those were the days and that's the type of cheap content you could replay in filler-slots all week.
They should bring back roller derby or maybe that was on Spike tv I can't remember. Lots of filler options.
So now I'm hearing the production costs for MLS games will be $60 million bringing down the Apple Tv deal to approx. $190 million per year. If the Canadian Tv Deal is worth $15 million and the previous TV deals in the US were worth $90 million that ultimately means the deal is worth only $75 million more per season. Not that impressive a jump to be honest.
Factoring the loss of regional deals (in fairness most of those are pretty much worthless) and Apple Tvs small subscriber base (far less than Disney, Netflix and Amazon) and I don't really see this as that big of a win. Sure, we will some games on traditional TV, but how many? And without exclusive rights, I doubt traditional networks will be willing to pay that much to air the games. According to some though, it's all sunshine and rainbows in MLS grand strategy to becoming a global soccer superpower.
Factoring the loss of regional deals (in fairness most of those are pretty much worthless) and Apple Tvs small subscriber base (far less than Disney, Netflix and Amazon) and I don't really see this as that big of a win. Sure, we will some games on traditional TV, but how many? And without exclusive rights, I doubt traditional networks will be willing to pay that much to air the games. According to some though, it's all sunshine and rainbows in MLS grand strategy to becoming a global soccer superpower.
Kirk Van Houten
Registered User
- May 7, 2019
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We are probably not talking enough about the fact that the Apple TV + deal gives them the rights all over the world not just the US and Canada.
Or at least that's how it was presented by some outlets here in Argentina
Or at least that's how it was presented by some outlets here in Argentina
IU Hawks fan
They call me IU
It's great for this hemisphere. However, believe I saw that all games would be 7pm local time at the earliest, which would make midnight GMT/1am CET the earliest slot.
Kirk Van Houten
Registered User
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I do believe that's the most intresting part of the deal. The fact that they're putting all the games or most of them at the same time makes a lot of sense and could change future schedules.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
The people more likely to be following their countrymen are in Central and South America. England used to have a channel show some MLS games as summer fodder, but it doesn’t look like that’s continued.
Somehow, I’m guessing the kickoff times won’t be that rigid once ESPN or another broadcaster is involved, probably for no more than 1-2 games a week.
Somehow, I’m guessing the kickoff times won’t be that rigid once ESPN or another broadcaster is involved, probably for no more than 1-2 games a week.
That tweet was very misleading with what it was asserting. It was Apples to Oranges tho USL got 197k on main ESPN vs 199k for MLS on ESPN2. MLS had 413k on main ESPN while USL had 197k not close. When USL starts pulling 413k numbers on ESPN then we can talk some USL fans pushed by Pro Rel folks are putting the cart before the horse.
Thing is they think putting that false premise that USL is now topping MLS out there will lead to Pro Rel It won"t. Not only because is premise false any network for example FS1 knows those networks limitations. FS1 routinely pulls sub 200 to 250k numbers for MLB. What would USL pull. That was a season low MLS number btw this year but USL is pulling even lower in that situation.
Its much more complicated than that my guy. MLS beats all of those programs in the 18-49 demos quite well also you left out the ESPN Deporte Simulcast window for the ABC game so MLS had 584k. So not only does MLS help ESPN in the demos over those properties it helps on the ESPN Deportes network which is soccer heavy. Go check the Showbuzz Daily ratings on Skedball.
Will say PLL did better in 18-49 demo (164k)did better then I expected (still below MLS) but 2x WNBA 18-49 demo(84k) . WNBA is below average as 18-49 demo property. WNBA just had a stinker 350k on BIG CBS with only 84k 18-49 demo.
There's also the unspoken about fact that ESPN kid gloves WNBA as much as possible when they can to avoid schedule conflicts up until NFL season starts when they start to face real schedule competition. They don't air games head to head vs NBA on TV which really impacted ratings or pretty much against any other Big sport event airing on TV. Its been like that since WNBA really ramped up their Support Womens Sports PR campaigns All that to say WNBA gets put in optimal viewing windows to shine vs little sports competition from the other Major Sports.
Finally on MLS while its sort of fun to play the gotcha game when a league under it can get kind of close to a rating and start talking about oh this little league can replace it as filler content. Much like it is BS to other NHL fans when a league like MLS can post similar regular season numbers and NHL fans will cry out Playoffs viewership the same applies with MLS when you try to use that logic about USL or PLL.
ESPN or any network isn't replacing MLS with USL or PLL when data like this. USL Championship Final has been televised on ESPN 2 of the last 3 yrs here is the total viewership for it across ESPN/ESPND
USL Final
2019-81,000 viewers avg
2021-84,000 viewers avg
PLL Final
2020-340k
2021-391k
MLS
2019-1.3m
2020-1.7m
2021-1.5m
Lots of spin on the Production cost as I stated earlier largely pushed by folks who were betting/reporting on a lower amount now wanting to seem less wrong, so now they are claiming but but but the production cost will be so much.
Its hogwash spin plain and simple MLS got a great bump for themselves and the deal with Apple is a minimum of $250m over 10 yr. That $250m yr will rise with global subscriptions (key not just relying on US subs).
Back to the production cost narrative people on twitter who were so sure 1 month ago MLS would be lucky to get $150m are back pedaling. For MLS that amount is likely a wash it was reported only a handful of MLS teams made money on their local rights deals $3-5m yr. Majority of MLS clubs produced and did their own production cost with a few teams still paying for air time. Those teams instead of paying how many millions they paid to run productions for 17-21 home games now in some cases can cut those cost and just cut a $1-2m dollar a yr check to MLS toward the Apple Production cost.
Effectively that cost burden now gets spread out over 30 teams instead of one team having to create a in house production team or pay for local air time. Its really a wash. There has been started to be pushed back on social media on twitter from some of the people Associated with the league with some of this reporting narratives like ESPn Taylor Twellman and Johnathan Tannenwald of the Philly Inquirer who called into question a report peddled by Mike Ozanian saying of the majority of owners he spoke too most hated the deal. Both said what most where thinking huh what lol So the owners by MLS by laws who have to vote majority to sign off on the deal hated then why they sign it? The reporting around the MLS deal has been questionable to say the least and reeks of planted story lines.
I've heard John Ourand and Andrew Marchand mention cost could be $50m yr for MLS but startup cost could get to as high as $75m the first year. MLS has the money to cover that. Sounds like alot but yearly production cost per team of $1-2m is chump change to these owners who already have increased local sponsorship.
Local team Sponsorship deal revenue hit a record $400m in 2021.
MLS 2021 Report
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Speaking of misleading and apples to oranges. When you say "199k for MLS on ESPN2" when that's not what it got "on ESPN2." It got 146k, you're combining with another network (ESPND) which isn't how advertisers care about when it's different languages and different advertisers. So "on ESPN2" it got 146k on ESPN2. That's the number.
As for the 413k on ESPN, as you said to me: "Go check the Showbuzz Daily ratings on Skedball." You'll see that game is only listed for 2 minutes, and again, you're using a combined number disingenously, on ESPN it got 351k, allegedly since again it's only listed for 2 minutes of coverage. Which that game wasn't on for the majority of the first half because college baseball ran long. I haven't seen anything clarifying that number, was the 2 minutes a typo? Or is that all that ended up getting tracked? Either way, not a genuine number considering the circumstances, at least not until later clarified and certainly didn't get "413k on ESPN." It got 351k on ESPN, and handful more on ESPND in another language. The match wasn't even on any espn network for 15+ minutes and then was on a different channel (ESPNEWS) for 15+ minutes after that.
As for PLL, this is the leagues first year on ESPN (ABC, ESPN2) so we'll see for comparisons as it goes on. I'm not expecting a great # for it's ESPN2 game today.
And for WNBA, agreed to an extent on propped up, but the excuses aren't overly valid considering WNBA and MLS have shared the same Saturday time slot on ABC, same one NHL had this year. So it's pretty like-for-like.
WRONG The match window was 199k. Thats the number ESPN definitely cares what it got on ESPN Deportes. Lolo you can't be serious lol. I would actually allowed that faint rebuttal attempt if say the match was ESPN simulcast on ESPN and say Univision even though those is the Sports Media industry now certainly do add up simulcast over different networks now and they certainly do for broadcast over the same network. You are clueless here and just tryna debate cause its MLS. But you are WRONG Networks place weight on simulcast audiences for Networks they own. The ABC simulcast in Spanish on ESPN Deportes is counted for NBA Finals the Manning Cast simulcast on ESPN is counted for ABC Monday night football.
All the other stuff you claimed falls back to above. ESPN definitely cares as they work with advertisers to set ad rates on their channels ESPN Deportes is a Nielsen rated channel ESPN different language or not I mean that statement was kind of.... Any way ESPN makes money off of ads on ESPN Deportes so to have programming that Nielsen rates on ESPN Deportes which is rare is a plus as it keeps that channel viable.
Most of what you said outside of PLL was wrong overall. WNBA is closeissh to MLS regular season just like MLS has been to NHL but the WNBA numbers have been propped up and not enough of a MLS sample on ABC considering they just started getting games consistently and have posted higher numbers overall while facing tougher comp. You need more of a sample size to use well they each once shared a ABC window last year. That sample size is definitely there on ESPN and its titled to MLS in raw viewership and 18-49 demos similar story on ABC in the demos but raw numbers are closer. I'd say WNBA being propped up by ESPN with scheduling helps much better on ABC. Example MLS had early season games on ESPN/FOX/ABC going up against NBA games/March Madness sometimes at the same time. I'll take the less great numbers as a fan because networks IMO know the properties they are PR kid gloving it with and the ones they feel are stronger and can hold their own more.
Not gonna lie it's be nice as a MLS fan to get that fluff treatment softer schedule competition. But ESPN saw the result of not doing that with the WNBA scheduling games against the NBA other sports it got buried and led to backlash. The cries was Why are you scheduling NBA games on ESPN and showing WNBA games on ESPN2 you're forcing people to choose.
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Said it got 199k "on ESPN2" (wrong) and now changing to "the match window" ... Typical from you. All your posts are about how you're responding to these mystery people on twitter who aren't even in this thread, while accusing everyone else of spinning stuff and then you are the one who literally spins everything. Odd behavior but I know you'll try to drag out multiple pages of back and forth on it so I'll leave it here. Continue as you were, spin away.
Ok you're reaching either way I'll say yeah I did say ESPN2 but it doesn't matter you're reaching. Why? Because both matches were simulcast on ESPN Deportes. MLS on ESPN2 and ESPN Deportes beat USL on ESPN and ESPN Deportes. Use common sense you're arguing that hey the USL match got more for one you're comparing ESPN2 to ESPN. First flub. Your second flub is while tryna make a half bake point you are ignoring there were actually more people that wanted to watch the MLS ESPN 2 match simulcast window vs the ESPN USL match window.
I keep forgetting you aren't a MLS fan or big domestic soccer fan and only bring up MLS to talk crap about it. So I assume you are aware of things like that. But you're simply looking for what you think is low hanging fruit.
When I go well nope actually you want to call FACTS spin because here you are thinking you have a good MLS dig. The OP tweet and several other tweets(yes we're talking tweets since tweets are being mentioned as some sort of final say when its a MLS dig) have claimed USL beat MLS on ESPN a factually untrue statement and misleading at best. In fact saw a couple tweets one from a USL Detroit City fan even say to the OP ok your post on Twitter which was repeated here as fact is misleading. It was Misleading just for the reasons I stated.
Only reason you really are tryna let it go now is because I called something obviously misleading out and you figure its best to let it go then to keep on trying to BS that fact away. ESPN2 will always perform lower. than ESPN even though they are in similar amount of homes currently. So the fact that MLS match window that was simulcast on ESPN2/ESPN Deportes (correct verbiage) beat a USL match also simulcast but on ESPN and ESPN Deportes isn't the strike against MLS you were trying to pretend it was earlier in post.
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Amazon apparently was offering the most money for F1 rights and wanted to sub it to other companies. F1 passed on both Amazon and Netflix as they didn't want to go completely streaming. Some may think MLS is ahead of the curve but with many sports properties not wanting to go streaming only it's telling.
BKIslandersFan
F*** off
They probably got offers from tv companies but Apple's offer was probably significantly larger.
