MLB Equivalents To NHL Players

[Neutrinos]

Pitchers = Goalies


I'll get the puck rolling...

Mickey Mantle/Bobby Hull
Icons during their era, both are considered top 5 - 10 players of all-time, with both possessing legendary power and a fondness for the drink. Mantle was 3rd all-time in home runs at the time of his retirement, while Hull was 2nd all-time in goals


Kevin Brown/Curtis Joseph
Largely overshadowed by the bigger names of their generation, these Hall of Fame snubs were among the top 5 at their position for a decade, and despite posting league-best stats during their peak season(s), neither player was awarded with a Cy Young/Vezina for their efforts. Both played for 5 franchises

Click to read more...

 

[Mike C]

Don Murdoch/ Dale Berra. Both played in NY. Both played on 3 teams in their major league careers. Both made it to finals in 1979. Berra winning World Series with Pirates, Murdoch losing Cup to Canadiens. Both got suspended and had the punishment reduced and both enjoyed cocaine a wee bit too much

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Trout is heading for Orr territory with his injuries stacking up after an absurd decade as the unquestioned best player in the league

And I'll add Cy Young = Gretzky in the sense that they both put up absurd records that have zero chance of being broken

 

[MadLuke]

Reggie Jackson and Maurice Richard ?

Scoring in the playoff (mostly known for their offensive side), won a lot including with the franchise that won the most, in the fringe side but in the conversation when talking best postseason performer and while really big legend not really in the GOAT conversation. both great longevity.

 

[Neutrinos]

Reggie Jackson and Maurice Richard ?

Scoring in the playoff (mostly known for their offensive side), won a lot including with the franchise that won the most, in the fringe side but in the conversation when talking best postseason performer and while really big legend not really in the GOAT conversation. both great longevity.

While Jackson is known for his playoff heroics, I think he comes up short when compared to Richard as an icon within his sport, not to mention the cultural impact outside of it...

Icon status... cultural impact... 8x Cup winner... 14x all-star... 5 goal scoring titles... entire career spent with the most storied franchise in his league's history...

I think a more fitting equivalent to Richard would be 9x World Series winner... 13x all-star... 3x MVP... and of course, baseball and cultural icon, Joe DiMaggio


I think Messier would be my pick as Jackson's equivalent... both won multiple championships with a small market team before becoming a playoff legend in New York... both would later return to New York after leaving as free-agents... neither was known for their gentlemanly play

 

[MadLuke]

I thought about DiMaggio but the Marylin Monroe type of cultural icon is such the opposite of Richard icon (but they share the intensity too) he also has the career Yankees going on, that more similar and closer to Richard all time list wise.

And DiMaggio was a 5 tools player (all star defensively in a top position), making less obvious comparable for Richard the goalscorer.

 

[Dale53130]

Stan Musial, Jean Beliveau
Bobby Clarke, Pete Rose
Ron Francis, Mel Ott
Brian Trottier, George Brett
Gordie Howe, Hank Aaron
Garry Unger, Rusty Staub
Terry Sawchuk, Yogi Berra
Dave Andreychuk, Harold Baines
Luc Robitaille, Paul Molitor
Mike Modano, Scott Rolen

 

[Hockey Stathead]

Very fun prompt...

Willie Mays/Gordie Howe: players with broadest skillsets ("5 tool"). Mays hit for average, hit for power, ran fast, had a terrific glove, and had a strong arm. Howe skated fairly well, handled the puck, scored goals, assisted on goals, defended, and brought physical element.

Joe Dimaggio/Maurice Richard: for how much they meant as icons to the cities of New York and Montreal, respectively.

Derek Jeter/Jonathan Toews: Hall of Fame-level players who might have been just a tad overrated at times by the media possibly due to being captains in major markets while their teams had a great run of success (due to much of their own efforts).

Luis Aparicio/Rod Langway: exceptional defensive players who made the Hall of Fame with minimal offensive output.

Ty Cobb/Eddie Shore: generally disliked around the league due to "dirty" play but objectively were extremely good players in early era.

Mike Mussina/Ken Dryden: both very smart individuals.

Jack Morris/Mike Vernon: lower end Hall of Famers who might only be in because of a few big playoff moments.

Brooks Robinson/Bob Gainey: elite defensive players who played non-traditional defensive positions. Robinson at 3B rather than up the middle (C, SS, 2B, CF). Gainey at LW rather than D or C.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Jeff Francoeur / Pascal Dupuis

 

[Neutrinos]

Stan Musial, Jean Beliveau
Bobby Clarke, Pete Rose
Ron Francis, Mel Ott
Brian Trottier, George Brett
Gordie Howe, Hank Aaron
Garry Unger, Rusty Staub
Terry Sawchuk, Yogi Berra
Dave Andreychuk, Harold Baines
Luc Robitaille, Paul Molitor
Mike Modano, Scott Rolen

Ott peaked much higher within his sport than Francis did in his

And while there are similarities between them as players, I don't think it's the best comparison due to the element of speed in Modano's game

Stylistically, a great comparison for Rolen might be Ron Francis

Very fun prompt...

Willie Mays/Gordie Howe: players with broadest skillsets ("5 tool"). Mays hit for average, hit for power, ran fast, had a terrific glove, and had a strong arm. Howe skated fairly well, handled the puck, scored goals, assisted on goals, defended, and brought physical element.

Joe Dimaggio/Maurice Richard: for how much they meant as icons to the cities of New York and Montreal, respectively.

Derek Jeter/Jonathan Toews: Hall of Fame-level players who might have been just a tad overrated at times by the media possibly due to being captains in major markets while their teams had a great run of success (due to much of their own efforts).

Luis Aparicio/Rod Langway: exceptional defensive players who made the Hall of Fame with minimal offensive output.

Ty Cobb/Eddie Shore: generally disliked around the league due to "dirty" play but objectively were extremely good players in early era.

Mike Mussina/Ken Dryden: both very smart individuals.

Jack Morris/Mike Vernon: lower end Hall of Famers who might only be in because of a few big playoff moments.

Brooks Robinson/Bob Gainey: elite defensive players who played non-traditional defensive positions. Robinson at 3B rather than up the middle (C, SS, 2B, CF). Gainey at LW rather than D or C.

While Mays and Howe is worthy of consideration, as you say "Howe skated fairly well", but Mays ran like the wind!

Willie Mays/Bobby Orr
Generational offense... generational defense... generational speed... there is a case to be made that they are the best to ever do it


Hank Aaron/Gordie Howe
After multiple decades of consistent excellence, they retired from their respective leagues at 42 as owners of their sport's most coveted individual record... despite their storied career, their peak seasons don't quite reach the same heights as the other Gods of their sport


SandyKoufax/Ken Dryden
2 of the most dominant primes in history which included multiple championships with a storied franchise to go along with multiple individual awards... abruptly retires at 30/31

 

[Neutrinos]

Rickey Henderson/Jaromir Jagr
Rickey's elite speed aside, both won championships on a stacked team in the early 90's... both were at one time the best player in the game... both were fitness freaks who played into their mid-40's...

And this Bill James quote about Rickey Henderson would also apply to Jagr...
"If you cut his career in 2, you would have 2 Hall of Famers"

 

[Dale53130]

Ott peaked much higher within his sport than Francis did in his

And while there are similarities between them as players, I don't think it's the best comparison due to the element of speed in Modano's game

Stylistically, a great comparison for Rolen might be Ron Francis

I was comparing them by their longevity, their both starting at a young age, and specifically, big totals for guys who won't generally be thought of as upper-echelon stars (superduperstars) in their respective sports. I don't think that Mel Ott was "underrated" in his day - and I'm not sure if Francis is still considered underrated though I thought he might have been at some point in time - but I do think Ott gets passed over quite a bit whenever the All Time greats are being mentioned, especially over the last 30 years or so.

Francis has +500 goals, and 1,798 points, while Mel Ott has 511 HR with 1,890 RBI. To me, I often put home run and goals scored on a similar plane, as I do with points and RBI production. I didn't necessarily do that with my other comparisons, but I did here, with these two guys.

Modano and Rolen, that had more to do with how they were viewed before playing a single game (and not disappointing), both having very good rookie campaigns, offense/defense combination (Rolen gets the edge here), and I view them as having similar value (Modano gets an edge here). I think they're both in that category, where it's clear that they should get into the HOF, but they're in that grouping that's only ahead of those that get criticism for squeeking in.

 

[Dale53130]

Stylistically, a great comparison for Rolen might be Ron Francis

I'm curious, in which way do you think these two are comparible stylisiticaly?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Very fun prompt...

Willie Mays/Gordie Howe: players with broadest skillsets ("5 tool"). Mays hit for average, hit for power, ran fast, had a terrific glove, and had a strong arm. Howe skated fairly well, handled the puck, scored goals, assisted on goals, defended, and brought physical element.

Joe Dimaggio/Maurice Richard: for how much they meant as icons to the cities of New York and Montreal, respectively.

Derek Jeter/Jonathan Toews: Hall of Fame-level players who might have been just a tad overrated at times by the media possibly due to being captains in major markets while their teams had a great run of success (due to much of their own efforts).

Luis Aparicio/Rod Langway: exceptional defensive players who made the Hall of Fame with minimal offensive output.

Ty Cobb/Eddie Shore: generally disliked around the league due to "dirty" play but objectively were extremely good players in early era.

Mike Mussina/Ken Dryden: both very smart individuals.

Jack Morris/Mike Vernon: lower end Hall of Famers who might only be in because of a few big playoff moments.

Brooks Robinson/Bob Gainey: elite defensive players who played non-traditional defensive positions. Robinson at 3B rather than up the middle (C, SS, 2B, CF). Gainey at LW rather than D or C.

I was trying to think of a Hab for the Jeter comp since it would line up with the "captain of the most storied franchise wins multiple rings and gets overrated for it" narrative, but Toews is a good one.

For an all defense, minimal offense HOF'er I'd go with Ozzie Smith over Aparicio.


Hasek - Pedro Martinez:

In an offensive time for each league, both came in and shut down teams to such a historic level that they arguably have the best season/run of seasons ever at their positions. Both posted stats that were magnitudes better than the 2nd best goalie/pitcher. In the late 90s with both of those guys out there against you, you just accepted the shut out and loss.

For example: Pedro in 2000 had :

1.74 ERA, 2nd best was 3.70.
ERA+ was 291, 2nd best was 133
284 Ks to 212 for 2nd
11.7 WAR vs 6.2 for 2nd

They also each had a signature moment on a big stage. Hasek has the 98 Olympics and Pedro has striking out 5 of the 6 batters he faced in Fenway in the 99 All Star Game. Those 5 Ks were Barry Larkin, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Larry Walker, Jeff Bagwell (3 HOF'ers but really 5 since McGwire and Sosa are out only because of roids)

 

[DickSmehlik]

I was trying to think of a Hab for the Jeter comp since it would line up with the "captain of the most storied franchise wins multiple rings and gets overrated for it" narrative, but Toews is a good one.

For an all defense, minimal offense HOF'er I'd go with Ozzie Smith over Aparicio.


Hasek - Pedro Martinez:

In an offensive time for each league, both came in and shut down teams to such a historic level that they arguably have the best season/run of seasons ever at their positions. Both posted stats that were magnitudes better than the 2nd best goalie/pitcher. In the late 90s with both of those guys out there against you, you just accepted the shut out and loss.

For example: Pedro in 2000 had :

1.74 ERA, 2nd best was 3.70.
ERA+ was 291, 2nd best was 133
284 Ks to 212 for 2nd
11.7 WAR vs 6.2 for 2nd

They also each had a signature moment on a big stage. Hasek has the 98 Olympics and Pedro has striking out 5 of the 6 batters he faced in Fenway in the 99 All Star Game. Those 5 Ks were Barry Larkin, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Larry Walker, Jeff Bagwell (3 HOF'ers but really 5 since McGwire and Sosa are out only because of roids)

That is a great comparison and summary!

I would also add Hasek's '98 All Star performance is similar to Pedro's. North America needed only one of their skaters to score a goal in the shootout to win the competition, and Hasek shut the door on them.

 

[buffalowing88]

Chara and Randy Johnson are similar in that they took longer than the usual prospect to develop and were physical anomalies who dominated later on. Johnson had the higher peak, but there's a similar trajectory there.

Who would be a good one for Ken Griffey Jr.? Such a high peak and approval rating among the fans, but injuries derailed him a bit in the back half of his career. I don't know that Orr works because Griffey kept playing through them for years, rather than retiring.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Chara and Randy Johnson are similar in that they took longer than the usual prospect to develop and were physical anomalies who dominated later on. Johnson had the higher peak, but there's a similar trajectory there.

Who would be a good one for Ken Griffey Jr.? Such a high peak and approval rating among the fans, but injuries derailed him a bit in the back half of his career. I don't know that Orr works because Griffey kept playing through them for years, rather than retiring.

I was trying to think of one for Griffey and honestly I dont think there is one. The only comparable in sports for 90s Griffey I can make is Jordan. As a kid of the 90s, they were both up on the same mountain top in terms of popularity and performance. Hell, there was no bigger status symbol than having a Griffey or Jordan rookie card.

 

[Neutrinos]

I was comparing them by their longevity, their both starting at a young age, and specifically, big totals for guys who won't generally be thought of as upper-echelon stars (superduperstars) in their respective sports. I don't think that Mel Ott was "underrated" in his day - and I'm not sure if Francis is still considered underrated though I thought he might have been at some point in time - but I do think Ott gets passed over quite a bit whenever the All Time greats are being mentioned, especially over the last 30 years or so.

Francis has +500 goals, and 1,798 points, while Mel Ott has 511 HR with 1,890 RBI. To me, I often put home run and goals scored on a similar plane, as I do with points and RBI production. I didn't necessarily do that with my other comparisons, but I did here, with these two guys.

Modano and Rolen, that had more to do with how they were viewed before playing a single game (and not disappointing), both having very good rookie campaigns, offense/defense combination (Rolen gets the edge here), and I view them as having similar value (Modano gets an edge here). I think they're both in that category, where it's clear that they should get into the HOF, but they're in that grouping that's only ahead of those that get criticism for squeeking in.

Re: Ott/Francis

Ott is 20th all-time in WAR
A 6x leader in HR and walks
A 5x leader in OPS+
A 4x leader in OBP
A 3x leader in WAR
A 2x leader in runs
A 1x leader in RBI

Yeah, Francis has 500+ goals, but with a single-season high of 32, I wonder if he ever finished top 20 in any single-season... and, sure, he is a 2x leader in assists, but that should come with an asterisk for obvious reasons

I'm not hating on Francis, but he didn't even make the HOH's Top 100 list

I'd think someone like Raphael Palmeiro would be more in line with Francis' value/place in history as a player... impressive career totals, but never challenged for a place among their generation's elite

It feels like Ott belongs in a higher tier

 

[Neutrinos]

Chara and Randy Johnson are similar in that they took longer than the usual prospect to develop and were physical anomalies who dominated later on. Johnson had the higher peak, but there's a similar trajectory there.

Who would be a good one for Ken Griffey Jr.? Such a high peak and approval rating among the fans, but injuries derailed him a bit in the back half of his career. I don't know that Orr works because Griffey kept playing through them for years, rather than retiring.

Nice work on the Johnson/Chara comp!

Griffey/Crosby
A++ prospects who delivered immediately at an early age, and despite injuries dampening their careers, both still put up all-time great numbers, and both will be remembered as the face of their leagues during their respective primes

 

[buffalowing88]

Nice work on the Johnson/Chara comp!

Griffey/Crosby
A++ prospects who delivered immediately at an early age, and despite injuries dampening their careers, both still put up all-time great numbers, and both will be remembered as the face of their leagues during their respective primes

That definitely seems most fitting. Crosby had the higher peak in terms of accolades but it really is hard to put into words how transcendent Griffey was for about a half decade. The injuries hampering them are similar as well.

 

[Neutrinos]

That definitely seems most fitting. Crosby had the higher peak in terms of accolades but it really is hard to put into words how transcendent Griffey was for about a half decade. The injuries hampering them are similar as well.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your meaning, but at face value, I'm not sure I agree that "Crosby had the higher peak"

He certainly has more individual awards, but I wouldn't say peak Crosby was better or more valuable in his sport than peak Griffey was in his

 

[Neutrinos]

I'm curious, in which way do you think these two are comparible stylisiticaly?

Neither was flashy, but both were elite defensively while producing at an all-star level offensively

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Neither was flashy, but both were elite defensively while producing at an all-star level offensively

Im sorry what? Ken Griffey Jr wasn't flashy? In what universe.

Ken Griffey Jr is arguably the biggest mix of style and substance in sports history.

 

[Neutrinos]

Im sorry what? Ken Griffey Jr wasn't flashy? In what universe.

Ken Griffey Jr is arguably the biggest mix of style and substance in sports history.

In the universe where you should go back and read the actual message I was replying to

Hint: It wasn't about Griffey

 

[Dale53130]

Re: Ott/Francis

Ott is 20th all-time in WAR
A 6x leader in HR and walks
A 5x leader in OPS+
A 4x leader in OBP
A 3x leader in WAR
A 2x leader in runs
A 1x leader in RBI

Yeah, Francis has 500+ goals, but with a single-season high of 32, I wonder if he ever finished top 20 in any single-season... and, sure, he is a 2x leader in assists, but that should come with an asterisk for obvious reasons

I'm not hating on Francis, but he didn't even make the HOH's Top 100 list

I'd think someone like Raphael Palmeiro would be more in line with Francis' value/place in history as a player... impressive career totals, but never challenged for a place among their generation's elite

It feels like Ott belongs in a higher tier

That's all good, and I'm relatively well versed in Ott's place in history. My point - which you're deviating from - is Ott (these days) gets glossed over too often, more in line with Ron Francis; though probably more unfairly with Ott. If this was only a test of similar values (based solely on things like WAR, runs, RBI, OPS+, and such), then I would have submitted a completely different list. For instance, I'm not placing Bobby Clarke next to Pete Rose based off of career value. They just sort of remind me of one another.

And yes, I too would put Francis being more in line with Palmeiro based on your parameters.