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OT: MLB Discussion Thread: Part XXIV

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SA16

SA16

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AJ Pollock is not an average hitter. He's a very good hitter who also provides speed and defense. However he is always hurt. Worth signing for sure but he is hard to rely on.
 

True Blue

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One Winged Angel said:
Honestly, $23.3 million isn't #1 starter money anymore and I think he's a good number two. I think his stuff would have translated in Yankee stadium, being that he decreased his 4-seam percentage and his slider/curve percentage increased big time last season, which is the reason for his massive spike in ground ball percentage.
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Over a $20m salary is a star's salary. So yes, it is exactly#1 starter money.

Look I wanted Corbin, but giving a 30 year old a 6 year deal for over $20m a year would have been a recipe for disaster. Just because he grew up in upstate NY, does not prepare him for the bright lights of NYC pressure. Pitcher coming off of a career year in his walk year, pitching in a small market team jumps to the Yankees who overpaid him. Haven't we seen this movie before? Don't we know just how it turns out?
 
nyr2k2

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Felix Hernandez, Jon Lester, Jake Arrieta, Jordan Zimmerman (LOL), Homer Bailey (LOL), Rick Porcello, Johnny Cueto, Wei-Yin Chen (LOL), Yu Darvish, and Cole Hamels all signed deals that include an average value over $20M or at least a couple individual seasons where they earn over $20M--many dramatically exceeding those figures.

Now obviously they all signed at different times, may have actually been #1 starters when they signed, etc. But they're not now. And yet, guys on the open market will use those deals as a starting point for their own. So even if Arrieta or Lester were once true #1's, the guys that are #2's and #3's will look at the production of those guys now and ask for salaries exceeding what the previous guys signed for. So no, $20M is not going to get you an ace, unless you sign a #2/#3 and he unexpectedly exceeds expectations.
 
offdacrossbar

offdacrossbar

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ill take grandal for just $$ and loss of a pick if it means we start the season with rosario, conforto and nimmo. all 3 are guys who can make a huge difference in this lineup.

realmuto is a stud but you take 2 of those 3 out of the lineup and i prefer the first one.

lets be reality here, grandal over TDA is a huge improvement. ramos and maldonado same.

rosario plus i can live with but that wont come close to enough.
 
offdacrossbar

offdacrossbar

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SA16 said:
AJ Pollock is not an average hitter. He's a very good hitter who also provides speed and defense. However he is always hurt. Worth signing for sure but he is hard to rely on.
Click to expand...

hes got a righty bat with pop we could use and an outfield of conforto, poolock and nimmo would be money.

problem is hes made of glass and wants 5 yrs.

stay away. lagares 2.0
 
One Winged Angel

One Winged Angel

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True Blue said:
Over a $20m salary is a star's salary. So yes, it is exactly#1 starter money.

Look I wanted Corbin, but giving a 30 year old a 6 year deal for over $20m a year would have been a recipe for disaster. Just because he grew up in upstate NY, does not prepare him for the bright lights of NYC pressure. Pitcher coming off of a career year in his walk year, pitching in a small market team jumps to the Yankees who overpaid him. Haven't we seen this movie before? Don't we know just how it turns out?
Click to expand...

I'll address the last part first. Normally, I'd totally agree with you if not for two things.

1. He's a lefty in Yankee stadium. Lefties usually fare better than righties in Yankee stadium, as the short porch in right can really hurt right handed pitchers who tendencies to have a higher fly ball than ground ball percentage which leads me into my second point...

2. His pitch selection changed DRASTICALLY this season. He threw the highest number of sliders and curves in his career, decreasing his 4-seam and changeup percentage and not so coincidentally, his ground ball percentage shot through the roof and his fly ball percentage and homeruns went down and he had his best year.

So yes, I ALWAYS worry about the NL to AL jump, especially the AL East which has nothing but hitters parks, but all of that combined with the fact that he's a lefty, it could have given the Yankees a very good #2 or even #3 if Paxton outperforms him.

As for the salaries, $23 million is not #1 pitcher money anymore. What other #1 starters that have gotten to their free agent deals or were given extensions to avoid free agency are making only $20 million?

Here's salary figures for top of the line starters now...

Kershaw - $33 million/year (signed in 2018)
Greinke - $34.42 million/year (signed in 2016)
Scherzer - $30 million/year (signed in 2015)
Price - $31 million/year (signed in 2016)

Here's salary figures for top of the line starters years ago...

Verlander - $21.95 million/year (signed in 2010)
Sabathia - $23 million/year (signed in 2008)

Corbin got $23.3 million a year from the Nationals. That was Sabathia's figure back in 2008. Verlander got $21.95 back in 2010. Times have changed and salaries have shot through the roof in MLB. The elite top of the line starters are all getting $30+ million a year. The #2's will all get around $20 million a year or so now.

I don't like it, but these are the facts.

Edit: Just think about what DeGrom is going to get. It'll be above $30 million. Same for Kluber and Bumgarner.

The interesting one to watch would be Cole. I think he's more of a Corbin comparable and he'll probably get mid to upper 20's.
 
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GoAwayPanarin

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One Winged Angel said:
I'll address the last part first. Normally, I'd totally agree with you if not for two things.

1. He's a lefty in Yankee stadium. Lefties usually fare better than righties in Yankee stadium, as the short porch in right can really hurt right handed pitchers who tendencies to have a higher fly ball than ground ball percentage which leads me into my second point...

2. His pitch selection changed DRASTICALLY this season. He threw the highest number of sliders and curves in his career, decreasing his 4-seam and changeup percentage and not so coincidentally, his ground ball percentage shot through the roof and his fly ball percentage and homeruns went down and he had his best year.

So yes, I ALWAYS worry about the NL to AL jump, especially the AL East which has nothing but hitters parks, but all of that combined with the fact that he's a lefty, it could have given the Yankees a very good #2 or even #3 if Paxton outperforms him.

As for the salaries, $23 million is not #1 pitcher money anymore. What other #1 starters that have gotten to their free agent deals or were given extensions to avoid free agency are making only $20 million?

Here's salary figures for top of the line starters now...

Kershaw - $33 million/year (signed in 2018)
Greinke - $34.42 million/year (signed in 2016)
Scherzer - $30 million/year (signed in 2015)
Price - $31 million/year (signed in 2016)

Here's salary figures for top of the line starters years ago...

Verlander - $21.95 million/year (signed in 2010)
Sabathia - $23 million/year (signed in 2008)

Corbin got $23.3 million a year from the Nationals. That was Sabathia's figure back in 2008. Verlander got $21.95 back in 2010. Times have changed and salaries have shot through the roof in MLB. The elite top of the line starters are all getting $30+ million a year. The #2's will all get around $20 million a year or so now.

I don't like it, but these are the facts.

Edit: Just think about what DeGrom is going to get. It'll be above $30 million. Same for Kluber and Bumgarner.

The interesting one to watch would be Cole. I think he's more of a Corbin comparable and he'll probably get mid to upper 20's.
Click to expand...

Couldn’t have said it any better
 
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Cassano

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Good point for latter. Cespedes coming back from an injury is like a new signing.
 
One Winged Angel

One Winged Angel

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Go Away Staal said:
Couldn’t have said it any better
Click to expand...

Thank you. It was something I analyzed in my head over and over again, because when Corbin very first said he wanted to be a Yankee, I was unsure of how he'd fare and I had the same doubts that @True Blue had.

After looking at the numbers and thinking how Corbin's pitch selection sort of mirror's Happ's now, it's a completely different ballgame, pun intended.
 
Cassano

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Crease said:
Well, there's your answer as to why the Mets would rather trade for Realmuto instead of just signing Grandal.

If the Mets want to operate like a mid-market team they can lower ticket prices.
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They just traded for Robinson Cano and took on a bulk of his contract. That is not a move mid-market teams would make.
 
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