Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Hellcat]

.. yup no doubt about it, your definitely are one of the Marner supporters. Same IQ. They are even welcoming you with open arms, liking all your posts.

Uh we are called Marnerelites...get it straight ... Tested at a score of 167 when I was in my fist year of University... we be smert!

 

[seanlinden]

Not quite accurate about Nylander.

They apparently entertained offers but didn't like any of them. Plus, he didn't have a full NMC, only a modified one: the full NMC only came with the extension. Unfortunately for Tre, Willy had a comparable on the same team, who had been making $11M for several years at that point: from that perspective, $11.5 x 8 isn't inexplicable at all.

As far as Marner goes, his NMC and current overpayment make it hard to trade him now. The "let him walk" may be the best of the scenarios.

And therein lies the problem... lack of principled management.

Its taking Dubas' mistakes, and just perpetuating them instead of the approach of "there's a new sheriff in town, and if you want to have the privilige of being a Toronto Maple Leaf, you're going to take "florida-type" money to do so."

 

[Hellcat]

These posters are equating the same with losing in the first round to same as losing in the final round. At least if the team was competing in deeper rounds we know we’re getting closer to the end goal. You can’t make this stuff up.lol.

Second place gets you a trophy you will never touch... sounds like a super special accomplishment...

 

[HolyCrap]

Second place gets you a trophy you will never touch... sounds like a super special accomplishment...

That went over your head. Not surprised though.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

These posters are equating the same with losing in the first round to same as losing in the final round. At least if the team was competing in deeper rounds we know we’re getting closer to the end goal. You can’t make this stuff up.lol.

I believe they are trolling at this point. It's a little sad, but just another thing as Leaf fans we have to deal with.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There is no one on these boards that is capable of running an NHL franchise. I’m sorry to burst your bubble. Most of us would probably do just as bad or worse. Evaluating talent is extremely hard, look at how many experienced GM’s have attempted to win here and haven’t even come close and you think some Joe blow on this site could do better? That’s hilarious.

I don’t know who or what the answer is to helping this team win is. Hopefully the organization can use all the money and resources they have to figure that out.

I do however think Berube is a good start, I think for the first time in 7 years they have a coach that finally matches where the group is at. I think that’s phase one. Phase 2 is acquiring those playoff type players and getting rid of those who won’t play how we need to play.

LOL. Did you really think my post was meant to be taken literally? All I meant was that going in the direction that the poster was suggesting is logical and much preferable to running it back with the same core year after year. This formula is a proven loser and why wait another 3/4/5/6/7 years before changing direction? I would think that our 1-8 playoff series speaks for itself.

We’ve always dumped players in the past that went on to win somewhere else, so why change now?

Every team has turnover every year, not sure why you call it "dumping", maybe you want to keep the same losers until they retire? And players don't win, teams do and once players leave Toronto, I don't really care whether they win or not.

 

[Hellcat]

That went over your head. Not surprised though.

Winning is a mind set, accepting anything else is a loser mindset... only winners get it,... not suprised you dont get that. How many team make it to 2nd place only to get no where close the next year, in fact 2nd place means you are more like finish worse the next year....

 

[Confucius]

Every team has turnover every year, not sure why you call it "dumping", maybe you want to keep the same losers until they retire? And players don't win, teams do and once players leave Toronto, I don't really care whether they win or not.

I do want to keep some guys for their entire careers, say at least 7 or 8 plus a coach and GM. I posted that somewhere else, I think stability would be awesome.

 

[Confucius]

Winning is a mind set, accepting anything else is a loser mindset... only winners get it,... not suprised you dont get that. How many team make it to 2nd place only to get no where close the next year, in fact 2nd place means you are more like finish worse the next year....

Chip beck was a classic example of a guy who took grief for years because he laid up and played it safe for 2nd rather than go for the win at the Masters. Actually since I mention it here, it’s been talked about for decades lol. He was caught on camera talking to his caddy and said something like 2nd is pretty good and proceeded to play it safe.

 

[ULF_55]

You mean 91 and 16 off the books? That would free up $22M in cap.

But there are already some extensions kicking in ...

 

[PromisedLand]

Don't get me wrong... I HATE the idea of signing him too...

But cap space is only as good as what you can actually do with it.

You look at the list of impending UFAs for next year, adn it's not exactly an overwhelming list.

Shesterkin is he really gonna leave New York?

Rantanen would he really leave Colorado? and if he would, would it not put us in a similar position as Marner today with too many high $ forwards?

Draisaitl would be great, but I suspect that if he doesn't stay in Edmonton, he's not staying in Canada.

Ekblad I cannot imagine is leaving Florida.

So who does that leave you? Boeser? Provorov? Ehlers? Mangiapane? Konecny? Theodore? Verhaege? It's not an overly spectacular group, and that's before the list gets paired down by resignings. It's also not really featuring that 1 stud defenceman that we've been after for a while.

Sure, you can certainly argue that this wteam would be a lot better swapping Marner for Rantanen, or Marner + Jarnkrok for Boeser & Konecny... but that's a heck of a risk to be taking on July 1.

thats where I think we differ in our thinking and approach. I am not looking for a superstar winger/player(s).

First and foremost our needs is a 2C after Tavares is off the cap and then we need couple wingers who can put up about 50 points in regular season and can play heavy and chip in in the playoffs.

Think of wingers in top9 giving you about 40 to 60 points range on average from line 1 to line 3) with Matthews and Nylander putting up ppg or better in regular season, and when playoffs come around these wingers can also chip in; play heavy hockey and are not afraid of boardwork, going to the net, etc....

LW-Matthews-RW
LW-2C-Nylander
LW-3C-RW
LW-4C-RW

Rielly-Tanev
McCabe-Liljegren
OEL-Benoit

Goalies:
Voodoo1
Voodoo2
I really think goalies are voodoo LOL

At present we have:
for wingers Domi, Knies, McMann, Holmberg, upcoming: Cowan, may be: Robertson (asked for trade)
Center: Dewar, Kampf, upcoming: Minten (may be); potential to be C: Domi, Holmberg
Our defense: although improved I'd like to see Tanev drop down to 2D on the right side or we find another upgrade on the right side for 2nd pairing (unless Lily really steps up).

I think the cap space we will get we can really upgrade on our wing and defense. They don't have to be superstars they just have to be better than what we currently have.

I really think this is the way forward for the remainder of Matthews' contract. Marner doesn't work. He will cost too much and he needs a top end center to perform; he just can't drive his own line. We must look at other avenues for improving. We really don't need 3 forwards at 10+ AAV; if we have to spend 10+ AAV on a 3rd player other than Matthews and Nylander then it must be on defense; here is where a hockey trade will have to be made. We will have to overpay but thats the game. if Marner could waive right now; we could do that without having to mortgage future picks

I really think we need a different look and marner is definitely not it. He hasn't once shown me that he could be a playoff contributor in tough situations in 8 years; especially from Gm5 to Gm7 when games get even tighter and rougher he goes into a shell. That is just too much cap dedicated for a player who can't get going when going gets tough

 

[notDatsyuk]

And therein lies the problem... lack of principled management.

Its taking Dubas' mistakes, and just perpetuating them instead of the approach of "there's a new sheriff in town, and if you want to have the privilige of being a Toronto Maple Leaf, you're going to take "florida-type" money to do so."

We don't know what they were offered. If it was a 3rd and a 4th round pick, then 'principled' would be to say 'no'. If it was Makar and 3 1sts, 'principled' would be to say 'yes'.

I agree he should have been signed for $9.5 - 10, but I'm not surprised, considering the mess Dubas left, that he got more.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I do want to keep some guys for their entire careers, say at least 7 or 8 plus a coach and GM. I posted that somewhere else, I think stability would be awesome.

Well since you're the guy who doesn't care about the playoffs, I guess you would be happy with the "stability" we're currently experiencing. That's cool, but it's not where my mindset is at. Playoff success or bust is where I'm at, and after all these years of bust, staying the course equates to throwing in the towel.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Unfortunately that sets the table for Marner, who will claim he is better. Seriously, these 3 guys are a joke when it comes to contracts with their 1 and 8 record in playoffs.

Absolutely. Hopefully Tre won't buy the BS that he's better.

 

[HolyCrap]

Well since you're the guy who doesn't care about the playoffs, I guess you would be happy with the "stability" we're currently experiencing. That's cool, but it's not where my mindset is at. Playoff success or bust is where I'm at, and after all these years of bust, staying the course equates to throwing in the towel.

I learned today that Leaf’s are apparently just as close to winning the cup as teams that have been consistently going deeper even losing in the finals. Actually we’re apparently even closer than those teams and to break up the core and trade a player would set us back. lol.

 

[facelessjoe1990]

If Leafs end up with $20mm cap-space next year they'll have agents knocking on their doors.

Will their clients be players that are actually good? I don't think there will be anything worth spending money on next year.

 

[ToneDog]

I learned today that Leaf’s are apparently just as close to winning the cup as teams that have been consistently going deeper even losing in the finals. Actually we’re apparently even closer than those teams and to break up the core and trade a player would set us back. lol.

Here's something else you learned today

 

[Confucius]

These posters are equating the same with losing in the first round to same as losing in the final round. At least if the team was competing in deeper rounds we know we’re getting closer to the end goal. You can’t make this stuff up.lol.

If you lose in the 1st round to the Cup winner, you still could be a better team than the Cup finalist. Not that difficult to see.

 

[HolyCrap]

Here's something else you learned today

View attachment 895139

lol. Oh no worries I know that poster is delusional.

If you lose in the 1st round to the Cup winner, you still could be a better team than the Cup finalist. Not that difficult to see.

Not what I was talking about.

 

[keonsbitterness]

If you lose in the 1st round to the Cup winner, you still could be a better team than the Cup finalist. Not that difficult to see.

You can make that claim in an isolated year. Harder to do looking at the history of this core.

 

[ToneDog]

Will their clients be players that are actually good? I don't think there will be anything worth spending money on next year.

Too early to predict but as of today:

Shesterkin
Ullmark
Draisaitl
Rantanen
Marner
Tavares
Hill
Oettinger
Crosby
Boeser
Ehlers
Marchand
Koneckny
Bennett
Verhaeghe
Iafallo
Ekblad
McCabe
Theodore
Provorov
Lindell

 

[Confucius]

You can make that claim in an isolated year. Harder to do looking at the history of this core.

I do feel everything has to go just right in the playoffs for the team that eventually wins. Our day will come but I don’t think the revolving door method we utilize with coaches, gms, star calibre players will ever work. That seems more like spinning a roulette wheel than building a winner.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If you lose in the 1st round to the Cup winner, you still could be a better team than the Cup finalist. Not that difficult to see.

Yes - the way the Islanders did for a couple of years after Tavares left.

Sorry -- that wasn't the first round, it was the Eastern finals they lost to the Cup winners.

 

[Confucius]

Holycrap someone is having a great time today, @HolyCrap

 

[HolyCrap]

Holycrap someone is having a great time today, @HolyCrap

Not really. It’s entertaining sometimes.