Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[IPS]

Anytime a player is off with a lengthy injury, he needs games to ease back into game condition. I’d think playoffs wouldn’t be the ideal time to start that.

In 2015 Chicago literally left Kane out until the playoffs, 21-game absence and all - and he proceeded to drop 3 points against Nashville in game 1 looking like he never missed a beat.

Also in 2021 - Kucherov missed the entire regular season and proceeded to win the cup and dropped 32 points in 23 games, a contender for the Conn Smythe.

Is it so out of line to have the same standards for Mitch or should we just keep ignoring reality and continue making excuses? He's been paid even more than these guys throughout his entire career.

 

[Sypher04]

Yeah and I'm pretty sure Draisaitl put up 2 PPG in the 2022 playoffs even though he suffered a high ankle sprain as well those playoffs.

Like heaven forbid we just don't desperately cling to dumb excuses to protect poor Mitchy with his 3 points in 7 games.

I don’t care about protecting Mitch, nor am I making excuses. If he’s in the lineup he need to play better than he did this year, period. I also however don’t see any issue discussing injuries that could have been factors.

As for comparing to Draisaitl. I think comparing players’ results during injuries is a fools game generally speaking as there are huge potential variations in severity and also support and what their play style requires to be effective playing through

 

[ULF_55]

That's another good one.
I wonder how people would view Nylander if they knew what really happen there.

a) Not a team player.
b) Able to make adjustments when plans won't work.

 

[ULF_55]

Why would he waive for Arizona or Montreal? I wouldn't.

Heck, I woudn't waive for Toronto and I used to live in Borden, Angus, London ...

 

[ULF_55]

If we could go back in history and trade Nylander, maybe we can go further back and tell the Marner camp to take a hike.

Convince him to sign the offersheet?

 

[ACC1224]

I don’t care about protecting Mitch, nor am I making excuses. If he’s in the lineup he need to play better than he did this year, period. I also however don’t see any issue discussing injuries that could have been factors.

As for comparing to Draisaitl. I think comparing players’ results during injuries is a fools game generally speaking as there are huge potential variations in severity and also support and what their play style requires to be effective playing through

He was still hurting just not bad enough to not be able to play through it. Lots of players do the same at that time of year, people have different tolerances to pain.

 

[Confucius]

Heck, I woudn't waive for Toronto and I used to live in Borden, Angus, London ...

Too funny, you’re a Leaf fan but wouldn’t play here. Lmao!

 

[Dog]

Too funny, you’re a Leaf fan but wouldn’t play here. Lmao!

I would not want to play in big market as well

 

[ULF_55]

He was still hurting just not bad enough to not be able to play through it. Lots of players do the same at that time of year, people have different tolerances to pain.

No sympathy ... just look at the Nylander situation, not being able to see clearly but people want him out there with 90mph pucks flying through the air.

I still don't see why trying him at center is out of the question.
He isn't too old, not with him playing PK and being one of their better defensive forwards?
Is it because he just has no strength and therefore can't take face-offs?
If Red Kelly can convert from defense to forward at 32, marner at 27, with his smarts and hands should be able to.

Knies-Matthews-Domi
Holmberg-marner-Nylander
McMann-Tavares-Grebyonkin
Robertson-Kampf-Jarnkrok

 

[ULF_55]

Too funny, you’re a Leaf fan but wouldn’t play here. Lmao!

If I could play there, but not live there ... helicopter in for games?

 

[ULF_55]

I would not want to play in big market as well

In Calgary Huberdeau can afford two mansions, with lakes, and be only 30 minutes away from the arena.

 

[Confucius]

If I could play there, but not live there ... helicopter in for games?

Core 6 eh, well you’ve got the correct mindset. Lol

 

[PromisedLand]

He also could have performed in the playoffs. If he did, nobody would be talking about trading him. As such we remember puck over the boards penalties, crying in the penalty box, whining to refs when he is touched, shying away from contact, passing to Edmundson instead of shooting, turnovers leading to goals, looking like a passenger on OT losing goals, QBing one of the worst PPs in the playoffs, throwing a hissy fit etc. etc. etc.

quite frankly this upcoming season IMO is almost like a "sunk" season with both tavares and marner (22M AAV) on the cap.

Ideal scenario is that marner wavies and lets us trade him. He can chase the money he wants and we can chase the cup that we want.

worst case scenario is its "run it back" garbage again, we let the next year play out and don't offer contracts to both tavares and marner. they can seek the money elsewhere while we go rounding out our roster for playoff competitiveness and success.

tampa just won 2 cups and had 3 cup appearances and they let stamkos walk because they couldn't agree on the dollars/caphit. Leafs have gotta be shrewed. We are not effing running a charity here. We have 8 years worth of evidence when it comes to marner. its time to cut our losses and move on. Either this season via trade of end of this season by not offering him any contract.

 

[seanlinden]

quite frankly this upcoming season IMO is almost like a "sunk" season with both tavares and marner (22M AAV) on the cap.

Ideal scenario is that marner wavies and lets us trade him. He can chase the money he wants and we can chase the cup that we want.

worst case scenario is its "run it back" garbage again, we let the next year play out and don't offer contracts to both tavares and marner. they can seek the money elsewhere while we go rounding out our roster for playoff competitiveness and success.

tampa just won 2 cups and had 3 cup appearances and they let stamkos walk because they couldn't agree on the dollars/caphit. Leafs have gotta be shrewed. We are not effing running a charity here. We have 8 years worth of evidence when it comes to marner. its time to cut our losses and move on. Either this season via trade of end of this season by not offering him any contract.

There is a challenge in being "shrewd", in that if not done correctly, you get yourself backed into a corner.

Take Nylander as an example. His comparables were all in the $8.5-$10m range. They could have traded him to any of the 31 other teams in the league. Instead, they waited, NMC kicks in, he started off hot, and inexplicably, he's being paid $11.5m x 8 years.

With Marner, they're in a VERY difficult position. He holds all the cards and the Leafs seem perfectly willing to "let the situaton play out".

There's only 3 possible outcomes for this... you trade him in the offseason, or either you let him walk as a UFA, or you cave and give him another exorbinant contract.

Both of the latter two are lose-lose situations.... especially considering a quick look at the UFA list for 2025. His $11m is probably going to go pretty quickly to some unspectacular players.

 

[PromisedLand]

There is a challenge in being "shrewd", in that if not done correctly, you get yourself backed into a corner.

Take Nylander as an example. His comparables were all in the $8.5-$10m range. They could have traded him to any of the 31 other teams in the league. Instead, they waited, NMC kicks in, he started off hot, and inexplicably, he's being paid $11.5m x 8 years.

With Marner, they're in a VERY difficult position. He holds all the cards and the Leafs seem perfectly willing to "let the situaton play out".

There's only 3 possible outcomes for this... you trade him in the offseason, or either you let him walk as a UFA, or you cave and give him another exorbinant contract.

Both of the latter two are lose-lose situations.... especially considering a quick look at the UFA list for 2025. His $11m is probably going to go pretty quickly to some unspectacular players.

I don't agree with all of what you are saying. Best scenario is to trade him, 2nd best is to let him walk as UFA the worst of it all is to re-sign him with full nmc/ntc and at a ridiculous cap hit. we have 8 years of evidence that marner cannot drive his own line he needs matthews or prime tavares to succeed. Nylander drove his own line with freakin' kerfoot as his center and put up points btw just for some historical context.

in grand scheme of things, we have already committed to matthews and nylander; matthews' prime is now i.e. the duration of the 4 years he signed for. We have to maximize those 4 years for a chance at the cup. Next year is a dead year because of tavares/marner 22M cap hits. Next off season we will get 22M in cap space to completely change the roster to really go for it in the reamining Matthews' 3 years.

After that, quite frankly, it is probably rebuild time again anyway if we still dont have the cup.

I absolutely hate the idea of doing the same thing again and again and again and expecting different results. It hasn't worked, I don't get why people expect it to work with marner re-signed. It will not work. Marner isn't Kuznetsov that changed cap's outlook completely with ovi changing the way he played to win the cup.

Marner's play will never transition well into the playoffs unless he is carried by a bonafide center. he just isn't good enough IMO

 

[BraveCanadian]

quite frankly this upcoming season IMO is almost like a "sunk" season with both tavares and marner (22M AAV) on the cap.

That's just silly. You can't have the core of players the Leafs have at this point in their career and have a throwaway year.

Every year is "win now" mode and they need these high paid players to show up. All of them.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's just silly. You can't have the core of players the Leafs have at this point in their career and have a throwaway year.

Every year is "win now" mode and they need these high paid players to show up. All of them.

Sure, that'll happen.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner's play will never transition well into the playoffs unless he is carried by a bonafide center. he just isn't good enough IMO

I'm curious, did Keefe ever do anything to switch it up?

Just seems like a stuck record.

If there is any truth to the comments about some players picking their linemates ... I don't think that'll fly with Berube.

 

[francis246]

I don't agree with all of what you are saying. Best scenario is to trade him, 2nd best is to let him walk as UFA the worst of it all is to re-sign him with full nmc/ntc and at a ridiculous cap hit. we have 8 years of evidence that marner cannot drive his own line he needs matthews or prime tavares to succeed. Nylander drove his own line with freakin' kerfoot as his center and put up points btw just for some historical context.

in grand scheme of things, we have already committed to matthews and nylander; matthews' prime is now i.e. the duration of the 4 years he signed for. We have to maximize those 4 years for a chance at the cup. Next year is a dead year because of tavares/marner 22M cap hits. Next off season we will get 22M in cap space to completely change the roster to really go for it in the reamining Matthews' 3 years.

After that, quite frankly, it is probably rebuild time again anyway if we still dont have the cup.

I absolutely hate the idea of doing the same thing again and again and again and expecting different results. It hasn't worked, I don't get why people expect it to work with marner re-signed. It will not work. Marner isn't Kuznetsov that changed cap's outlook completely with ovi changing the way he played to win the cup.

Marner's play will never transition well into the playoffs unless he is carried by a bonafide center. he just isn't good enough IMO

With all this insight, it’s a shock that MLSE just doesn’t hire you to take over

 

[Gary Nylund]

With all this insight, it’s a shock that MLSE just doesn’t hire you to take over

I wish they would. Trying to win with a common sense approach instead of running back the same losing formula year after year would be a refreshing change indeed!

 

[francis246]

I'm curious, did Keefe ever do anything to switch it up?

Just seems like a stuck record.

If there is any truth to the comments about some players picking their linemates ... I don't think that'll fly with Berube.

So I know personally, that in the 2023 playoffs. The players wanted a line up change in the Florida series. ROR and Marner wanted to play together, I know that for a fact. If you want to know how I know shoot me a DM. But Keefe was unwilling to change shit up. They also wanted a change on the PP. this idea that Marner and Matthews are married to each other on the ice really isn’t true. I think coming out of ELC they wanted that opportunity to play together, but it’s not like they are completely unwilling to play on separate lines.

 

[francis246]

I wish they would. Trying to win with a common sense approach instead of running back the same losing formula year after year would be a refreshing change indeed!

There is no one on these boards that is capable of running an NHL franchise. I’m sorry to burst your bubble. Most of us would probably do just as bad or worse. Evaluating talent is extremely hard, look at how many experienced GM’s have attempted to win here and haven’t even come close and you think some Joe blow on this site could do better? That’s hilarious.

I don’t know who or what the answer is to helping this team win is. Hopefully the organization can use all the money and resources they have to figure that out.

I do however think Berube is a good start, I think for the first time in 7 years they have a coach that finally matches where the group is at. I think that’s phase one. Phase 2 is acquiring those playoff type players and getting rid of those who won’t play how we need to play.

 

[PromisedLand]

That's just silly. You can't have the core of players the Leafs have at this point in their career and have a throwaway year.

Every year is "win now" mode and they need these high paid players to show up. All of them.

I see where you are coming from and don't disagree. The issue at hand is that the same high AAV players haven't performed and I think we have a large enough sample size to make concrete judgment calls.

The probability of them showing up all together while the roster/depth is gutted to accommodate their cap hits is very low. We have seen this agai and again for 8 years now.

If they had shown up even in at least 1 yr out of 8 yrs we probably are not even having this conversation

 

[647Hockey]

quite frankly this upcoming season IMO is almost like a "sunk" season with both tavares and marner (22M AAV) on the cap.

I agree.

Assuming JT and MM stick around, how can anyone expect the new upcoming season will be any different than the past bunch of years?

But when next season is over and Leafs free up $22M + whatever other bad contracts that might be over by then, the team might have $30M(?) freed up to get players.

You can tell the team is itching to get a solid goalie at some point, since all the goalie signings lately are short term, cheap, or a back up vet you know isnt a #1 or long term hold.

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm curious, did Keefe ever do anything to switch it up?

Just seems like a stuck record.

If there is any truth to the comments about some players picking their linemates ... I don't think that'll fly with Berube.

the only playoff sereies win we have is when Keefe decided to split matthews-marner against the bolts; marner went into a shell btw for the last few games there. And then against Florida he again put them together. IMHO I think Matthews' game suffers quite significantly due to Marner.

I really don't think Marner will have any significant contribution to the Leafs' playoffs success especially given his cap hit. If only regular season is the goal then sure sign marner LOL (I really don't want them too though )