Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Antropovsky]

If his PPG was 1.10, that'd be amazing, 1.10 PPG is top 10 of all active players... what do people expect?

He is 22nd amongst active players with his 0.88 PPG currently, tied with Marchand.

I don't think people have a grasp on how low some player's PPG is in the playoffs.

Marner can perform a lot better, I agree, but he is one of the top performers by PPG in the NHL currently.



How would he know what valid opinions are if he never played in the league?

He is saying that disqualifies your opinion.

This isn't hard logic to follow.

Marner has played every post season game since 2019 with an 11 million dollar center. With exception of this postseason (go figure 3 points in 7 games). Show me the playoff stats of two 10%+ cap hit forwards on the same line together.

The bar should be significantly higher for two 13% cap hit players on a line together. Not well..he almost hit 100 points in the season...and has 8 goals and 37 points in 44 playoff games since signing for 11 million.

Somebody isn't playing to the level of a 12%+ cap hit. Marner is the obvious answer if you have eyes.

 

[arso40]

They’re all bad when it counts.

Have any of them stepped up when it matters? Tavares, arguably has been the best player.

Why do you think they fail to get the job done in every big situation? There has to be a reason .

I think it’s the leader. I don’t think he grasp the concept of winning in the nhl playoffs. How could he.?

How did you get there lol wild

 

[Craig Button]

Can you explain how much harder games 5, 6, and 7 are than games 1-4? No one can give me a %, that is all I am asking for.

How would one calculate a percentage on how much harder games 5-7 is compared to games 1-4?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

How would one calculate a percentage on how much harder games 5-7 is compared to games 1-4?

Shots and score differential.

If shots and goals go down for games 5-7 then it means it is harder to score in those games than in 1-4. Other things you could look at are distance from net for each shot, hits, penalties taken, number of dump-ins, and board battles. All those smaller things add up to make the game harder.

Theoretically a smaller number of shots taken/goal diffential is the consequence of those other things taking place.

 

[Gabriel426]

How did he bet on himself last playoff?

Well, if he had a great playoffs, it will be what numbers he is signing on July 1 instead of all the stuff now.
Let’s not pretend MM didn’t know he can sign an extension as early as July 1.

I will go out on a limb here and say that if the leafs win the cup and Marner is part of it, nobody will be shitting on anyone....it will be party time, at least for a little while.

For about two days, lol.
My point is even if the Leafs win, it will still be this and that with MM.

 

[ZEBROA]

0% chance the Oilers can win without McDavid.

Florida is balanced enough to be able to win without Barkov.

Off course they can. Might not be easy in the final, but they can. One player does not make the whole team ever. Not in one game. When McD had only crap around he could not win a game. Icehockey is still a teamgame even if stars tilt the ice, like crazy in Mcds case.


Its easy group psychology. The other team underestimate a team without its star, the team without the star understand they must overperform to have a chance. Happens all the time.

My point was Leafs dont need Marner to win. And i prefer to be without Marner then Matthews. If there were no cap i would prefer them both.

 

[ZEBROA]

I don’t know if Matthews would have won a memorial cup! Nothing suggest he would have. Nothing.

Him playing on a good enough team, with good enough players, would suggest it.

 

[notbias]

How would one calculate a percentage on how much harder games 5-7 is compared to games 1-4?

No clue, I'll leave it up to the people claiming it is so much harder in those games to come up with a scientific way to describe how hard they are... right now it is just "I think they are".

 

[RunItBackAgain]

It's just so easy to see how this team is better without 60% of our cap going to 4 forwards.

Marner 11M + filler forward 1M + filler Dman 1M

or

Domi 4M + Bertuzzi 5M + Marner return (Theodore 5M)

We're down a million and probably break even the seasons afterwards with Marner's 13M ask to remain here.

Would you rather:

Marner, Dewar/Gregor, Lyubushkin/Giordano

OR

Domi, Bertuzzi, Theodore

Then the following year we can spread the wealth around even more from JT's pay cut (hopefully massive) and maybe strike gold on a real goalie somehow.

 

[ACC1224]

Well, if he had a great playoffs, it will be what numbers he is signing on July 1 instead of all the stuff now.
Let’s not pretend MM didn’t know he can sign an extension as early as July 1.

That’s not betting on yourself. Nylander bet on himself. If Marner remains unsigned through this season, that’s betting on himself.
Your last sentence makes no sense at all.
Every player knows the details of his contract. Why would this be any different?

 

[BallardEra]

Leafs star Mitch Marner takes in a ballgame in northern Ontario

It's the Stanley Cup finals, which means the Toronto Maple Leafs forward is nowhere near a rink and has lots of time to watch his brother-in-law play for Thunder Bay Border Cats

www.sootoday.com

 

[ToneDog]

It's just so easy to see how this team is better without 60% of our cap going to 4 forwards.

Marner 11M + filler forward 1M + filler Dman 1M

or

Domi 4M + Bertuzzi 5M + Marner return (Theodore 5M)

We're down a million and probably break even the seasons afterwards with Marner's 13M ask to remain here.

Would you rather:

Marner, Dewar/Gregor, Lyubushkin/Giordano

OR

Domi, Bertuzzi, Theodore

Then the following year we can spread the wealth around even more from JT's pay cut (hopefully massive) and maybe strike gold on a real goalie somehow.

I'd rather have Domi (3), Debrusk (5), Theodore (5), Thompson (1) and Lomberg (1)

I'd even pass on Domi for anything over $3m if I can get Debrusk and Lomberg.

I'd be happy with a LW of Debrusk, Knies, McMann and Lomberg. We need Domi (or Bert's money) for a #2 or #3C. What we have seen the last couple of years is that you cannot make a deep run if you do not have a good third line and ours has sucked since Lou left.

 

[Nineteen67]

We’ll never know. We do know that at one time Marner was able to step up.

Him playing on a good enough team, with good enough players, would suggest it.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

I'd rather have Domi (3), Debrusk (5), Theodore (5), Thompson (1) and Lomberg (1)

I'd even pass on Domi for anything over $3m if I can get Debrusk and Lomberg.

I'd be happy with a LW of Debrusk, Knies, McMann and Lomberg. We need Domi (or Bert's money) for a #2 or #3C. What we have seen the last couple of years is that you cannot make a deep run if you do not have a good third line and ours has sucked since Lou left.

That's the point, sub in whoever you want. It's almost impossible to make Mitch at 13M (even at 11M) look good when you compare it to what we could have instead. And that's overpaying in free agency.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

IF he is Leaf on July 2nd, it means he can't fetch anything of value in a trade.

Exactly what I said.

He’s going to be moved.

The Leafs aren’t looking for a hockey trade. They are willing to take a loss. If he can’t be traded, he’s going to tank his value

 

[Roo]

Exactly what I said.

He’s going to be moved.

The Leafs aren’t looking for a hockey trade. They are willing to take a loss. If he can’t be traded, he’s going to tank his value

No chance in my opinion. You don’t give away talented young players like this because of one year on their contract where you think they’re overpaid. I really can’t see how this contract is a bigger problem than Tavares. That’s just terrible management of your assets. You want that cap space, you can keep marner and buy out Tavares if you really wanted to. I see no reason why we hold onto Tavares who is clearly past his prime over marner who is in it.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

You don’t give away talented young players like this because of one year on their contract where you think they’re overpaid.

Wha ?

No one disputes Marner has talent.

It’s the Leafs that need change. The core doesn’t work. Tre picked Nylander over Marner. Paying two Right wingers over 10 AAV is just stupid. Surely we can do better than stupid ?

The change is moving Marner.

It’s that simple.

Letting him walk in one year is the dumbest of all.

Everyone knows they are trying to move him.

If they don’t, it will be deemed a failure.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

No chance in my opinion. You don’t give away talented young players like this because of one year on their contract where you think they’re overpaid. I really can’t see how this contract is a bigger problem than Tavares. That’s just terrible management of your assets. You want that cap space, you can keep marner and buy out Tavares if you really wanted to. I see no reason why we hold onto Tavares who is clearly past his prime over marner who is in it.

A Tavares buyout costs us 10.4 against the cap this season, a huge savings of 600k. You're right, Tavares is a much bigger issue, but there is nothing to be done about him until the end of next season.

We can't buy him out, we can't send him down, and we can't trade him unless we want to strap a 1st rounder to him. Our literal only hope for this season is he goes on LTIR.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

but there is nothing to be done about Tavares until the end of next season

Exactly.

 

[ToneDog]

That's the point, sub in whoever you want. It's almost impossible to make Mitch at 13M (even at 11M) look good when you compare it to what we could have instead. And that's overpaying in free agency.

As J.D. Bunkis said, I do not even want him for $10.9m. I can see Leafs overpaying and trading him to a team in a no tax state so that Mitch makes even more take home money.

Seriously only way Mitch makes the same money he made here is if he signs with a team in a no tax state. Nobody is screwing their pay scale to accommodate him IMO.

 

[Roo]

Wha ?

No one disputes Marner has talent.

It’s the Leafs that need change. The core doesn’t work. Tre picked Nylander over Marner. Paying two Right wingers over 10 AAV is just stupid. Surely we can do better than stupid ?

The change is moving Marner.

It’s that simple.

Letting him walk in one year is the dumbest of all.

Everyone knows they are trying to move him.

If they don’t, it will be deemed a failure.

That’s the noise but I don’t believe the leafs are looking to give him away. Wait the year and Tavares is gone if you want to make the change in core. Or look to Trade Tavares instead. If you can get good value for marner, sure, my main issue is ‘giving him away’. You don’t just throw away assets like that for the sake of change, that’s a terrible thing to do, and I don’t see why they do that when they can see how he does under Berube.

A Tavares buyout costs us 10.4 against the cap this season, a huge savings of 600k. You're right, Tavares is a much bigger issue, but there is nothing to be done about him until the end of next season.

We can't buy him out, we can't send him down, and we can't trade him unless we want to strap a 1st rounder to him. Our literal only hope for this season is he goes on LTIR.

Ok my bad, clearly the rules have changed fr what I remembered. Thought it was 2/3 the remaining value spread over 2y.

 

[ToneDog]

That’s the noise but I don’t believe the leafs are looking to give him away. Wait the year and Tavares is gone if you want to make the change in core. Or look to Trade Tavares instead. If you can get good value for marner, sure, my main issue is ‘giving him away’. You don’t just throw away assets like that for the sake of change, that’s a terrible thing to do, and I don’t see why they do that when they can see how he does under Berube.

Ok my bad, clearly the rules have changed fr what I remembered. Thought it was 2/3 the remaining value spread over 2y.

You cannot run it back for a 9th year and risk losing him for nothing. If you cannot trade him, you might have to resign him with a limited NMC and if he shits the bed next April, you pay his bonus and move him. If Mitch and his camp are smart and can read the pulse of the fan base, they will work with Tre on a trade or sign a team friendly deal. Unfortunately from what I have seen of the Marner camp is greed > smarts.

 

[Trapper]

You cannot run it back for a 9th year and risk losing him for nothing. If you cannot trade him, you might have to resign him with a limited NMC and if he shits the bed next April, you pay his bonus and move him. If Mitch and his camp are smart and can read the pulse of the fan base, they will work with Tre on a trade or sign a team friendly deal. Unfortunately from what I have seen of the Marner camp is greed > smarts.

I don’t think they’d agree to a limited NTC or NNC anymore than the bidding starts at less than 11.5 million.
Don’t compound the mistakes and sign him long term for 12+ million. Get out of it as soon as you can. Either by trade or unfortunately letting him walk. But I let him walk if that’s my only choice I have left.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You cannot run it back for a 9th year and risk losing him for nothing. If you cannot trade him, you might have to resign him with a limited NMC and if he shits the bed next April, you pay his bonus and move him. If Mitch and his camp are smart and can read the pulse of the fan base, they will work with Tre on a trade or sign a team friendly deal. Unfortunately from what I have seen of the Marner camp is greed > smarts.

I doubt Marner's ego will allow his to sign a deal where doesn't have a full NMC like they gave to Nylander. The choice may well end up being either being stuck with Marner for another 8 years, or letting him walk for nothing.

 

[Gallagbi]

I doubt Marner's ego will allow his to sign a deal where doesn't have a full NMC like they gave to Nylander. The choice may well end up being either being stuck with Marner for another 8 years, or letting him walk for nothing.

It's less ego and more logic

He can control his fate in 12 months why give that up?