Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[Gary Nylund]

Sheldon Keefe reportedly afraid of what would happen if he benched Mitch Marner​

Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman has confirmed that Sheldon Keefe treated Mitch Marner differently than his teammates because he was afraid of how Marner would react to criticism and/or punishment.​

It's hard to imagine any team going deep in the playoffs while paying top dollar to this cupcake. He needs to go, and it's hard to understand how some are so bamboozled by who knows what that they just don't get it.

 

[NVious]

People always have the mistaken notion that elite players are scaled in skill and contribution in direct proportion to salary. They arent. Elite players are so good that everyone else is below average. This has been studied many times over the years. They produce surplus value for every dollar of cap they take. It has been discussed here for years as well.
2 50 point players being paid 6MM is far worse than a 12MM Marner. The asset is of greater value than replacement players that are returned by the Cap. Nobody does this willingly if they want to keep their job. So a deficit return value is actually losing him for nothing. There is no polishing of that turd.

Marner isn't elite come playoff time, again and again this needs to be said.

He is getting paid Connor McDavid money while playing like Clarke MacArthur.

Something new needs to be tried, it may not work, but there is way higher chances of it working than Marner working in Toronto, he had his 8 years, he did nothing. Next.

 

[AvroArrow]

The Kadri trade doesn't make sense when discussing Marner. Kadri was never a compete issue, it was the exact opposite, he cared deeply and was very emotionally invested and it got the best of him. Marner just doesn't care to compete.

 

[rumman]

If Marner asks for a trade, which is unlikely, he will get traded. I don't believe the Leafs even initiate discussions on a trade out of fear that Marner walks for nothing next year. The team cannot afford to lose him for nothing. Even a signed Marner with a NMC gives the team tradeable scenareos in the future once he is locked up. There would be no fear that he would go and leave the team high and dry.
An unsigned Marner has so much leverage right now that the 52.6% that feel he will be moved must really be either deluded or a casual.

I don’t think there’s any scenario where they resign Mitch, so that’s a empty thread imo. They should just be honest with him and say your not in our long term plans, give us a list of places your open to playing. No one, in their right mind will want to jeopardize the last year going into free agency especially with a new coach and no guarantees on where you’ll fit into his vision of the Maple Leafs.

Farris thinks he holds the hammer, but Tre actually holds Marner’s future in his hands, make no mistake in that………

 

[rumman]

complete joke. guy was running mickey mouse club for a hockey team

Keefe’s real problem is he let those above him to tell him to apologize and/or take back his comments, too bad for him he didn’t have the stones to stand up and say this needs to happen…….

 

[rumman]

If this is true, we got the 2 with thick skin signed and ready to go. Build around the 2 forwards now from the net out.

Let’s hope they find a taker for Marner, but we should also remember 34 and 88 have warts of their own that need fixing if this team is going to compete come playoff time………

This is all well and good for the regular season. What you're ignoring here is the fact that once we're a few games into the playoffs, Marner is the turd.

Winner winner chicken dinner………

 

[Trapper]

Let’s hope they find a taker for Marner, but we should also remember 34 and 88 have warts of their own that need fixing if this team is going to compete come playoff time………


Winner winner chicken dinner………

They’re not off the hook yet, they will 100% face even more playoff scrutiny with Marner gone but it’s easier to deal with guys that you can at least tell them to pull their heads out if their behinds without having a fit.
Men not boys.

 

[rumman]

They’re not off the hook yet, they will 100% face even more playoff scrutiny with Marner gone but it’s easier to deal with guys that you can at least tell them to pull their heads out if their behinds without having a fit.
Men not boys.

True that, this generation of players are too coddled imo, wouldn’t last a week under Eddie Shore……….

 

[Antropovsky]

Sheldon Keefe reportedly afraid of what would happen if he benched Mitch Marner​

Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman has confirmed that Sheldon Keefe treated Mitch Marner differently than his teammates because he was afraid of how Marner would react to criticism and/or punishment.​

​

Many gave Sheldon Keefe flack for not being tougher on certain players during his time in Toronto. We saw Keefe lay down the law with William Nylander more than once during his tenure in Toronto, but other players on the team, more specifically Mitch Marner, seemed to avoid his wrath after a poor performance.

While we saw Keefe bench Nylander for making mistakes, we never really saw it with Marner even though it was warranted at times. We finally may have an answer as to why that was the case.
Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman was on 'Leafs Morning Take' yesterday and was asked about the Marner situation. The conversation led to him discussing how Nylander and Matthews have a 'thick skin' and can handle the market, but how Marner's skin may not be as thick. Friedman emphasized that some people have a thicker skin and some do not but that's how life works.

With that being said, Friedman revealed that Keefe was aware of this and that is why he wasn't as hard on Marner as he was Nylander and others.

​

Sensitivity may not have been the best word choice to describe Marner, but essentially, Keefe, like every coach, had to learn and connect with each player in their own way. Friedman went on to say that it will be interesting to see how new Leafs head coach Craig Berube approaches things with players.

As long as we don't get to see how Berube is with Marner. Sorry Marner... last year you reportedly were scared you would be traded..but even that didn't stop you from being even more of a pansy this year. I don't care if it was Keefe and Dubas who coddled you... you could've changed.

Though... the story of Dubas and Keefe just keeps getting worse.

 

[Notsince67]

You aren't going to replace his production, very unlikely.
That doesn't mean the team can't be BETTER without him and with some 'good' pieces plugged in where you are improving in net AND on the blue line.
And I personally like Marner, I'm not for running him out of town. My post was mostly from the view of those who seemingly can't wait to get rid of him.

Also, as others have said, its not Regular Season Mitch that is the problem, its Playoff Mitch. We have a few recent years of evidence saying that is the issue. It might very well be that the lesser peices you bring up...while maybe not as good as Mitch in the regular season....wouldn't have too hard of a time outperforming him in the playoffs.

Teams can improve on random actions. The problem is extending logic to its fullest. Cap without assets mean the UFA market unless you are layering prospects that the team doesnt have a plethora of. Go to the UFA market and make the case for a basket of players in conjunction with the other players you are replacing.
Really not an easy thing. It also serves to muddy the analysis of how losing Marner by itself helps the team.

 

[sunstersun]

I wanted a super tear down after the Florida series. Coach, GM, Marner.

A year later, it's the same result except much worse.

IDC, walk Marner into FA. Keep him away from Matthews and PP1. We can't have 2 non shooters on the PP. That's just the new iron rule.

Florida series really woke some shit up in me. The gap between 1st round and Stanley Cup is huge for this team.

 

[Notsince67]

Marner isn't elite come playoff time, again and again this needs to be said.

He is getting paid Connor McDavid money while playing like Clarke MacArthur.

Something new needs to be tried, it may not work, but there is way higher chances of it working than Marner working in Toronto, he had his 8 years, he did nothing. Next.

He has more playoff points in his career than anyone on the team. Where it.might sound pretty funny comparing him to CM, it doesn't sound very clever.

 

[mjd1001]

Teams can improve on random actions. The problem is extending logic to its fullest. Cap without assets mean the UFA market unless you are layering prospects that the team doesnt have a plethora of. Go to the UFA market and make the case for a basket of players in conjunction with the other players you are replacing.
Really not an easy thing. It also serves to muddy the analysis of how losing Marner by itself helps the team.

Its not just free agents.
Its making a trade for someone that you can't fit under the cap with Marner, but you can without him. Its extending or fitting a guy you want under the cap that you might have to let go with him. Cap Space can be under-rated. Its not just who you can sign as a free agent.

 

[Notsince67]

I don’t think there’s any scenario where they resign Mitch, so that’s a empty thread imo. They should just be honest with him and say your not in our long term plans, give us a list of places your open to playing. No one, in their right mind will want to jeopardize the last year going into free agency especially with a new coach and no guarantees on where you’ll fit into his vision of the Maple Leafs.

Farris thinks he holds the hammer, but Tre actually holds Marner’s future in his hands, make no mistake in that………

We will see who is right.

Its not just free agents.
Its making a trade for someone that you can't fit under the cap with Marner, but you can without him. Its extending or fitting a guy you want under the cap that you might have to let go with him. Cap Space can be under-rated. Its not just who you can sign as a free agent.

Who are you offering exactly for that trade? Knies?

 

[sunstersun]

He has more playoff points in his career than anyone on the team. Where it.might sound pretty funny comparing him to CM, it doesn't sound very clever.

Blah blah blah blah blah points. Passes to the point, lucky fluke shots from the blue line, points in garbage time or blowouts games 1-4, lack of goals, lack of clutch moments, horrendous play with turnovers and scared plays along side those "points." This year against Boston, he was completely exposed for a fraud. Just like he was in the Florida series, just like he was in the Habs series.


It's tiring arguing with people about Marner because people just make an argument without any context that's been discussed. No one has the energy to repeat on end forever. It's a lot easier to just ignore shit you don't like I guess.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Or maybe that's the one strategy that will work to get him going? (I say that half-seriously)

I will never, ever question Vegas on any move they make. Even the ones that didn't go so well they somehow still overcame them. So if they trade for Marner lay down your bets early on them winning the Cup, perhaps a few times.

It’s absolutely on Keefe for letting the animals run the zoo, but I also feel like this should have been known.

Draft combine interviews, spending more than half the year together, team shrinks etc., it should have been a focus of management and they could have moved on before putting themselves in a corner with the Nylander deal.

It’s been apparent to most of us that Nylander takes his lumps and is brimming with confidence, why wouldn’t he be, but Mitch is very hard on himself, which can be a good trait when it doesn’t cause you to implode.

Mitch I maintain should have been moved ideally after Montreal and latest after TB1. People are what they are but you don’t get cagey and become a victim after you agree to accept generational money.

 

[ACC1224]

He has more playoff points in his career than anyone on the team. Where it.might sound pretty funny comparing him to CM, it doesn't sound very clever.

Remarkably enough comparing Marner to Clarke Macarthur isn't even the dumbest thing posted in this thread. Pretty close but the bar is set pretty high.

 

[sunstersun]

Remarkably enough comparing Marner to Clarke Macarthur isn't even the dumbest thing posted in this thread. Pretty close but the bar is set pretty high.

The bar is being set very high by Marner fans for sure.

 

[Notsince67]

Blah blah blah blah blah points. Passes to the point, lucky fluke shots from the blue line, points in garbage time or blowouts games 1-4, lack of goals, lack of clutch moments, horrendous play with turnovers and scared plays along side those "points." This year against Boston, he was completely exposed for a fraud. Just like he was in the Florida series, just like he was in the Habs series.


It's tiring arguing with people about Marner because people just make an argument without any context that's been discussed. No one has the energy to repeat on end forever. It's a lot easier to just ignore shit you don't like I guess.

Weird as this is a Marner thread

 

[NVious]

He has more playoff points in his career than anyone on the team. Where it.might sound pretty funny comparing him to CM, it doesn't sound very clever.

So he has the most points on a team of failures? Why is that a reason to keep him again?

Since you have direct contact with him Paul, tell him the following:

If he wants to stay SO bad and be in people's good graces, he can take a minuscule extension at 1-2 mill per year for 1-2 years so we can get some more top end talent.

That'll never happen because it's all about the money with him and he doesn't actually care that much about Toronto/staying or winning.

It's been nearly a decade, thanks for the great seasons Mitch, all the best, but you gotta go.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He has more playoff points in his career than anyone on the team. Where it.might sound pretty funny comparing him to CM, it doesn't sound very clever.

There's this really weird disconnect between the points Marner gets in the playoffs vs the value he adds. It's only apparent when you watch him play but if you do watch him, you know it's there. He's good for the first few games, and then he disappears. Unless you think it's coincidence that year after year he goes missing after the first few games, the only reasonable conclusion is that he's not going to much help to a team that's trying to go deep in the playoffs.

 

[mjd1001]

We will see who is right.


Who are you offering exactly for that trade? Knies?

I get it, you like Marner and want to keep him.

I'm just saying you aren't giving him away for nothing if he walks. You are getting his cap space and there are possibilities to improve the team, possibly by quite a bit with that cap space.

Of course I have no idea who/what you are trading unless I know what the trade is. Maybe the return you get is actually what you get FOR Marner. Maybe you get a high pick back in the Marner trade and then you flip that pick to another team for a higher priced piece they can't afford but you can afford now. I can't predict the future, but what I can tell you is all the thing I mentioned above, AND in my previous posts, are possibilities.

 

[Evilhomer]

Just feels like the obvious outcome here is that they end up keeping Marner through the start of next season and he starts the year on a massive tear, resulting in the inevitable resigning.

 

[ACC1224]

Just feels like the obvious outcome here is that they end up keeping Marner through the start of next season and he starts the year on a massive tear, resulting in the inevitable resigning.

People will lose their minds.

I'm starting to lean towards he'll be gone by camp.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Keefe’s real problem is he let those above him to tell him to apologize and/or take back his comments, too bad for him he didn’t have the stones to stand up and say this needs to happen…….

Maybe he thought he'd be canned if he did.