Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[ToneDog]

Where is NotSince67 anyway....

Mitch's cottage celebrating his 27th birthday?

 

[hamzarocks]

Domi is the same build? His head is the size of Marner... they are the same height, nothing else.

They don't play similarly either, both pass first, and that is about it.

The culture started with Lou/Babcock, why are they never brought up?

That's who brought in all these players and their mentors.

The culture with Lou and Babcock was completely different from the one with Shanny + dubas/keefe

Pretending it wasnt is insanely revisionist history

Lou was an avg GM and not a guy who I could be certain would build a winner but his approach to team was way different

1) Players were expected to be professional. Dress professionally, clean cut/shaven looks

2) There was no culture of individualism in 2017 and 2018. Players were held accountable. Nylander and Marner both spent stints on L4 during those two years with Babcock. Kapanen was moved down the lineup when he would f*** up.

3) The signings back then from RFAs were not seen as a media circus/players looking to screw the leafs over for every last dollar. Rielly and Kadris RFA deals were done quickly and proved to be very good

Babcock was a dick and a medicore coach by 2020 but he came in with a precense initially that wanted to reward hard work and effort. Unfortunately he became more power hungry as dubas moved up and was an idiot with his decisions and inability to make adjustments.

We need a harder/stricter coach who holds players accountable but is good at adjustments and has a modern offensive and defensive system

Cooper, Brindamour, Quenville, are the best 3 potential options

The big 5 entitlement needs to be purged out of the organization. 2 or 3 of these 5 cant be leafs moving forward.

This loss needs to be held accountable. Our offense died, our core produced horribly vs a medicore boston team.

Shanny + Keefe + 2 of 5 of the big 5 need to be moved with team culture being redone by new President + Coach (and maybe GM if Treliving is attached to this core too)

 

[ruaware41]

I don't think it's hatred. The vitriol stems from his greed, sense of entitlement, and lack of intensity when it matters most.

I personally have no hard feelings towards him at all. The situation has just reached the point whereby it would be in the best interest of both him and the organization to part ways.

I think for a lot of us he just reminds us of a child who had his every wish caved to/was never told no growing up and almost all of us have come across someone like that as adults. He hasn't done himself any favours either with how often he complains. But 99% of Leafs fans don't out right hate players who wear the Leafs jersey. Even Clarkson probably rarely came across people who cussed at him on the subway and stuff. It's just not how our culture is.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

If Marner agrees to waive his nmc (big if), I think a lot of people underestimate how big of a return he could bring.

Sure, it's only 1 year. But keep in mind a few things.

Half the teams in the league don't care about his playoff performances because they'd be thrilled to just make the playoffs in the first place.

And this is the big point. Half the teams in the league (probably more) care far more about real money value than cap hits. They'd be getting 1 year of Marner for 700k. Imagine all those poor teams with no star power getting a 100 point player for a season for league minimum. It would be pretty big trade value.

YUP.

 

[ruaware41]

The culture with Lou and Babcock was completely different from the one with Shanny + dubas/keefe

Pretending it wasnt is insanely revisionist history

Lou was an avg GM and not a guy who I could be certain would build a winner but his approach to team was way different

1) Players were expected to be professional. Dress professionally, clean cut/shaven looks

2) There was no culture of individualism in 2017 and 2018. Players were held accountable. Nylander and Marner both spent stints on L4 during those two years with Babcock. Kapanen was moved down the lineup when he would f*** up.

3) The signings back then from RFAs were not seen as a media circus/players looking to screw the leafs over for every last dollar. Rielly and Kadris RFA deals were done quickly and proved to be very good

Babcock was a dick and a medicore coach by 2020 but he came in with a precense initially that wanted to reward hard work and effort. Unfortunately he became more power hungry as dubas moved up and was an idiot with his decisions and inability to make adjustments.

We need a harder/stricter coach who holds players accountable but is good at adjustments and has a modern offensive and defensive system

Cooper, Brindamour, Quenville, are the best 3 potential options

The big 5 entitlement needs to be purged out of the organization. 2 or 3 of these 5 cant be leafs moving forward.

This loss needs to be held accountable. Our offense died, our core produced horribly vs a medicore boston team.

Shanny + Keefe + 2 of 5 of the big 5 need to be moved with team culture being redone by new President + Coach (and maybe GM if Treliving is attached to this core too)

Lou brought in Patrick Marleau who was everything wrong with M+M but on steroids and had a huge influence on them. Really we just need Sakic to run everything. Colorado is incredibly blessed

 

[notbias]

The culture with Lou and Babcock was completely different from the one with Shanny + dubas/keefe

Pretending it wasnt is insanely revisionist history

Lou was an avg GM and not a guy who I could be certain would build a winner but his approach to team was way different

1) Players were expected to be professional. Dress professionally, clean cut/shaven looks

Do not care about this... 31 teams don't do this, and Lou hasn't won anything with this culture since the 2nd World War.

2) There was no culture of individualism in 2017 and 2018. Players were held accountable. Nylander and Marner both spent stints on L4 during those two years with Babcock. Kapanen was moved down the lineup when he would f*** up.

Marleau playing 17 mins in a game 7 is how he held players accountable.

3) The signings back then from RFAs were not seen as a media circus/players looking to screw the leafs over for every last dollar. Rielly and Kadris RFA deals were done quickly and proved to be very good

Part of the reason Marner was sour was because of Lou and Babs, but okay.

Babcock was a dick and a medicore coach by 2020 but he came in with a precense initially that wanted to reward hard work and effort. Unfortunately he became more power hungry as dubas moved up and was an idiot with his decisions and inability to make adjustments.

We need a harder/stricter coach who holds players accountable but is good at adjustments and has a modern offensive and defensive system

Cooper, Brindamour, Quenville, are the best 3 potential options

The big 5 entitlement needs to be purged out of the organization. 2 or 3 of these 5 cant be leafs moving forward.

This loss needs to be held accountable. Our offense died, our core produced horribly vs a medicore boston team.

Shanny + Keefe + 2 of 5 of the big 5 need to be moved with team culture being redone by new President + Coach (and maybe GM if Treliving is attached to this core too)

I don't care who we bring in any more.

I don't think it is a culture issue.

Boston has the top goalies and a top 5 D but are mediocre, no clue why people are repeating this, it is not grounded in truth.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Our market sucks to play in, I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to play here.

Personally, I'd want to because I grew up loving this team, but the media and fans are unbearable in this market.

A former NHL player who grew up in Ontario told me that his boyhood dream was to play for the Leafs. Once he turned pro and starting hearing what it was like to play in Toronto he changed his tune. Also, this was several decades ago.

 

[notbias]

A former NHL player who grew up in Ontario told me that his boyhood dream was to play for the Leafs. Once he turned pro and starting hearing what it was like to play in Toronto he changed his tune. Also, this was several decades ago.

I am sure there are tons of guys who feel like that, doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Rompane]

It is easy to tell that Marner is the one who Toronto needs to let go. Winning the cup is only goal and Marner is by far worst playoff performer out of three star forwards. With cap space and what they will got from him, Maple leafs can become more balanced team and better in post season. Nobody can say they did not try with full core for many years.

 

[hamzarocks]

Do not care about this... 31 teams don't do this, and Lou hasn't won anything with this culture since the 2nd World War.




Marleau playing 17 mins in a game 7 is how he held players accountable.



Part of the reason Marner was sour was because of Lou and Babs, but okay.



I don't care who we bring in any more.

I don't think it is a culture issue.

Boston has the top goalies and a top 5 D but are mediocre, no clue why people are repeating this, it is not grounded in truth.

What top 5D does boston have lol?

They have McAvoy (top 10ish Dman this year) and Lindholm (#2D) after that they had a rookie Lohrei, a #4D in Carlo and a crappy bottom pairing

There was no bergeron or krjeci at forward either

This boston team sucked top to bottom and we still lost to them...

The big 4 are chokers who cant produce against anyone outside of Tampa.

Why are they making 40M+ if they cant break through against any good defenses? That makes 0 sense.

 

[notbias]

What top 5D does boston have lol?

They have McAvoy and Lindholm after that they had a rookie Lohrei, a #4D in Carlo and a crappy bottom pairing

There was no bergeron or krjeci at forward either

This boston team sucked top to bottom and we still lost to them...

The big 4 are chokers who cant produce against anyone outside of Tampa

We are pretty much done if you think Boston's D is not good, good chat.

 

[ToneDog]

What top 5D does boston have lol?

They have McAvoy and Lindholm after that they had a rookie Lohrei, a #4D in Carlo and a crappy bottom pairing

There was no bergeron or krjeci at forward either

This boston team sucked top to bottom and we still lost to them...

The big 4 are chokers who cant produce against anyone outside of Tampa

Spoiler Alert: They would not have beat Tampa this year.

 

[hamzarocks]

We are pretty much done if you think Boston's D is not good, good chat.

Your done because you know boston defense shouldnt stop the leafs lool

This boston defense is going to get lit up against the panthers

Just like they got lit up in 2023 and how they got lit up in 2022 vs Canes

Leafs loser core is only group which makes them look unbeatable

 

[647Hockey]

What top 5D does boston have lol?

They have McAvoy (top 10ish Dman this year) and Lindholm (#2D) after that they had a rookie Lohrei, a #4D in Carlo and a crappy bottom pairing

There was no bergeron or krjeci at forward either

This boston team sucked top to bottom and we still lost to them...

The big 4 are chokers who cant produce against anyone outside of Tampa.

Why are they making 40M+ if they cant break through against any good defenses? That makes 0 sense.

On sports radio last night, the hosts even said this Boston team is probably the worst Boston team the Leafs have ever played in the playoffs and Bruins still won. The guys were like.... Beecher? Brazeaux? Who are these guys?

 

[socko]

Babcock made Tavares Captain.

Certainly not going to forget that from the negative column.

 

[arso40]

As far as media and fans go, imo, it’s one of the easiest large markets in all of sports. If they weren’t in a hockey first country, they’d be out of business.


He’s too slow. Boston is horribly slow and he was unable to keep up with them.

You remember the high ankle sprain right?

 

[647Hockey]

Babcock made Tavares Captain.

Certainly not going to forget that from the negative column.

Unless JT is the awesomest locker room captain none of see what's he's doing, in public eye he's got to be the quietest and least motivated sounding captain ever. The guy can win a $100 million lottery and his interview and on-ice leadership would be the most boring ever.

 

[saffronleaf]

On a personal level, happy birthday to him, that sucks its the day after a loss

Still need his list of teams though lol

The thing is if you make marner make a list you know he'll cry about it to the media. He doesn't like list making

 

[A1LeafNation]

You remember the high ankle sprain right?

8 year high ankle sprain?

This guy has used up the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.

 

[arso40]

8 year high ankle sprain?

This guy has used up the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.

I'm talking about lily who are you talking about?

 

[Stephen]

I don't think it's hatred. The vitriol stems from his greed, sense of entitlement, and lack of intensity when it matters most.

I personally have no hard feelings towards him at all. The situation has just reached the point whereby it would be in the best interest of both him and the organization to part ways.

It was tough to see the hometown kid stick it to the franchise like that in contract negotiations and not have the ability to deliver in big playoff moments where legacies are defined. Business is obviously business but compared to other superstars he asked for more. And gave us less. It’s just such an unlikeable combination of entitlement, fragility and resentment.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I'm talking about lily who are you talking about?

Marner...lol oops

 

[3blizzard4]

Marner already cleaned out his locker. Basically three mickey mouse t shirts and and bugs bunny hat.

He is headed for Turks for three weeks while we stew in anger here.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Mitch's cottage celebrating his 27th birthday?

 

[Gary Nylund]

So I think he trades him, makes a big shake up, but my actual honest fear.

Is that we lose the trade. But I maintain we will not win with Marner so it's time for him to go.

It's been said here many times that it's impossible to trade Marner and win the trade. I think we're at the point now where it's almost impossible to trade Marner and not be in a better position as a franchise.

Where is NotSince67 anyway....

Good question. We seem to be overdue for a lecture about how clueless we are if we can't appreciate what he have in Marner.


IMO Marner's biggest fanboy's in no particular order are/were @Notsince67 , @666 , @ACC1224 and @DarkKnight (and one person on my ignore list). It seems that @DarkKnight has finally come to his senses but the other 3 are conspicuously absent today so who knows if they're still riding the "Marner is awesome" train.