Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[PromisedLand]

The culture with Lou and Babcock was completely different from the one with Shanny + dubas/keefe

Pretending it wasnt is insanely revisionist history

Lou was an avg GM and not a guy who I could be certain would build a winner but his approach to team was way different

1) Players were expected to be professional. Dress professionally, clean cut/shaven looks

2) There was no culture of individualism in 2017 and 2018. Players were held accountable. Nylander and Marner both spent stints on L4 during those two years with Babcock. Kapanen was moved down the lineup when he would f*** up.

3) The signings back then from RFAs were not seen as a media circus/players looking to screw the leafs over for every last dollar. Rielly and Kadris RFA deals were done quickly and proved to be very good

Babcock was a dick and a medicore coach by 2020 but he came in with a precense initially that wanted to reward hard work and effort. Unfortunately he became more power hungry as dubas moved up and was an idiot with his decisions and inability to make adjustments.

We need a harder/stricter coach who holds players accountable but is good at adjustments and has a modern offensive and defensive system

Cooper, Brindamour, Quenville, are the best 3 potential options

The big 5 entitlement needs to be purged out of the organization. 2 or 3 of these 5 cant be leafs moving forward.

This loss needs to be held accountable. Our offense died, our core produced horribly vs a medicore boston team.

Shanny + Keefe + 2 of 5 of the big 5 need to be moved with team culture being redone by new President + Coach (and maybe GM if Treliving is attached to this core too)

8 years in total of which 6 years are with Tavares and 5+ years with Keefe after Babcock got canned.

Even a rookie businessman would change their business practice knowing full well that the same kind of assets are giving similar results and there is no expectation of any productivity. Somethings gotta give here.

Marner gotta be gone pronto. Until both Marner and Tavares are off the cap any major investment for a win now scenario is a big mistake

 

[All Mod Cons]

Marner and Liljegren for Borgen and McCann

 

[All Mod Cons]

There are some positives for da new mgmt team .. Boosh Ed Benoit and McCabe are 4 guys who can play post season hockey .. we only need a 1D and another big tough D and we got a D core for once .. between Woll and Hildeby we may have a tender who can handle playoff hockey .. and we have maybe 75% of our forward group here .. with a defensive minded coach who does not care about possession hockey who can get guys to buy into a grind game for a season we will have a much better chance to manage for a full 60 minutes in playoffs .. we got Willy and Matty to provide da required skill .. Mitch and JT ideally help us get da missing pieces .. hopefully Minten and Cowan with Holmberg and Knies and McCann and Dewar can inject some youthful life into season .. to me i would trade Robertson now because he is not a playoff type player - too small too slow and too easily controlled like Mitch .. much rather have Reavo policing a game with gregor to replace when required .. sign back Domi and Bert .. kampf and jankrok are ok too but could be replaced

Domi Matty Bert
Knies Cowan Willy
McCann Holmberg Minten/Jankrok
Dewar Kampf Reavo/Gregor
(keep 14 forwards to see how Cowan and Minten pan out)

Marner JT and Robertson traded and/or LTIRed

On D

new 1D (from Marner trade)
Benoit Boosh McCabe and Ed
Sign Lily to a 1 year cheap make or break year and if it doesn't pan out trade him at TDL or trade him now for a 1st rounder whatever

Rielly should get us a no 1 pick from a lottery team and draft Sam Dickinson to be future 1D
Marner should get us a no 1 D at lower CAP hit

Woll Hilde by Jones

Get a coach who demands a grinding style game from everyone to prepare team for playoff hockey like Q

A ton to do but this is da overall plan which is required .. if Mitch does not play ball then fine we sit him at home for season til he realizes it may kill his hockey career .. if JT does not want to get hurt and go LTIR then same program for him .. this is where da new prez needs to be tough .. Shanny can't do it .. too many family problems for him to act in teams best interest .. blood runs deeper than team .. sad but true

Agreed. This is the first time that I've actually seen a bit of a skeleton structure of a team they can win with. We're probably half a dozen players short (and a few key ones), but this is the most optimistic I've felt in 5 years, because some of these guys are actually doing what we need them to do.

 

[Antropovsky]

Siegal saying Marner might be ready for a change as there were no contract negotiations. Of course there weren't, Marner isnt going to sign anything ahead of time, he knows the cap is going to go up, and he plans to use UFA as leverage against the Leafs and maximize pressure in his favor. He isn't gonna bother starting a whole 2 years early.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I do wonder what would’ve been if Shanahan chose to keep Lou over Dubas. Big Three probably don’t get overpaid in negotiations. I think Tavares still comes here since Lou did try for Stamkos. Babcock maybe doesn’t turn into a self-sabotaging prick since he actually respected Lou while his dislike of Dubas was palpable. Even if he does or he proved to be incompetent still Lou probably hires a better coach than Keefe after firing him. Anything else that could’ve been done gets way into speculative territory, who knows if Lou would’ve gone after Muzzin, how the Bruins series plays out with Kadri, etc.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Trade him to Chicago for Seth Jones.
Or trade him to Pittsburgh for Erik Karlsson.

 

[Aashir]

@Notsince67 can I get an analysis on Mitch Marner from you? Describe the “engine” of our teams play? Refer to his “Gretzky-like” iq plays he made which would cause statues to be erected of him?

How will his p***y like hockey look like in your eyes? How are the curl backs and abandoning the play look like for you? How were his defensive reads?

You love the guy, so I’m expecting so real amazing answers.

 

[TMLegend]

Trade him to Chicago for Seth Jones.
Or trade him to Pittsburgh for Erik Karlsson.

Gross and gross.

I'd rather go for futures personally than shuffling the money around on another big contract.

 

[socko]

I never got why Babcock was considered a high end coach anyway. I was never high on him at any point.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Never mind Nylander, I'm feeling so petty I almost feel like digging up some of the Matthews>Marner posts.

He kills penalties ... he's the best defensive forward in the NHL ... he's the smartest player hockey history ... the PP runs through him ... he's the engine of the team ... legends row ... all-time great ...

Thinking back on it now, the amount of drivel we've had to put up with from the Marner fanboys is unreal. All I can say is that I really hope that this is finally the end of it.

Of course I forgot one crucial point - Marner is well liked in the dressing room.

Not sure how to quantify that in terms of how many millions a year it's worth but considering how many times that little tidbit has been rammed down our throats, I figure it must be a lot.

 

[arso40]

Where's acc been awfully quiet

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Gross and gross.

I'd rather go for futures personally than shuffling the money around on another big contract.

Agreed. Find a bad team to give us a top 15 pick in the upcoming draft and get it done.

I used to want a top 10 pick and have adjusted my expectations

 

[Cassell]

I think someone on here (memory escapes me as to who) mentioned something about a Marner to Anaheim for Mason MacTavish trade. Other pieces, licks, whatever added on either side to facilitate it, but with those two being the central pieces going each way. Thoughts?

 

[Trapper]

Of course I forgot one crucial point - Marner is well liked in the dressing room.

Not sure how to quantify that in terms of how many millions a year it's worth but considering how many times that little tidbit has been rammed down our throats, I figure it must be a lot.

The players can determine their contracts, they don’t get to determine the core. And they certainly haven’t done anything playoff team wise to be granted anything.

Winning should be the first priority and it’s time to take the team and culture back. You don’t get rewarded for winning 1 out of 8 1st round matchups.

The core needs to change. The playoff losing mentality needs to change. The urgency and Mickey Mouse play needs to change.
You don’t trade Matthews. You just signed Nylander for 8 years. Tavares isn’t the needed change. You should not pay Marner 12-13 million. There is the core change. A message that if you believe you can lose every first round and think you are right there is wrong. Dead wrong.

 

[TheShape]

I keep circling back to Dallas. Attractive pieces, competitive team, no state tax, will have cap space to re-sign after Benn comes off the books.

Whether or not Marner would settle way out in Texas is a different story.

 

[saffronleaf]

It's been said here many times that it's impossible to trade Marner and win the trade. I think we're at the point now where it's almost impossible to trade Marner and not be in a better position as a franchise.


Good question. We seem to be overdue for a lecture about how clueless we are if we can't appreciate what he have in Marner.


IMO Marner's biggest fanboy's in no particular order are/were @Notsince67 , @666 , @ACC1224 and @DarkKnight (and one person on my ignore list). It seems that @DarkKnight has finally come to his senses but the other 3 are conspicuously absent today so who knows if they're still riding the "Marner is awesome" train.

I think all those users are reasonable except notsince67 that's gotta be Paul Marner's account

 

[Antropovsky]

It's been said here many times that it's impossible to trade Marner and win the trade. I think we're at the point now where it's almost impossible to trade Marner and not be in a better position as a franchise.


Good question. We seem to be overdue for a lecture about how clueless we are if we can't appreciate what he have in Marner.


IMO Marner's biggest fanboy's in no particular order are/were @Notsince67 , @666 , @ACC1224 and @DarkKnight (and one person on my ignore list). It seems that @DarkKnight has finally come to his senses but the other 3 are conspicuously absent today so who knows if they're still riding the "Marner is awesome" train.

Don't forget @Dekes For Days ... though he did tone it down the last couple years. Jokes aside, I'm curious @Dekes For Days how did you think Marners playoffs were?

 

[sunstersun]

Horrific in game 6 and 7. Where was game 5 Mitch? 1st line got their shit pushed in.

 

[egd27]

The way he's lashed out at the media ect makes me think he is not enjoying life here at all.

Well he did get married last off season.

 

[Drytoast]

Had the game on his stick and didn't want to eat a hit. I used to defend Mitch but that's done. Kid is a p***y. This is a man's sport and he refuses to grow up.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The players can determine their contracts, they don’t get to determine the core. And they certainly haven’t done anything playoff team wise to be granted anything.

Winning should be the first priority and it’s time to take the team and culture back. You don’t get rewarded for winning 1 out of 8 1st round matchups.

The core needs to change. The playoff losing mentality needs to change. The urgency and Mickey Mouse play needs to change.
You don’t trade Matthews. You just signed Nylander for 8 years. Tavares isn’t the needed change. You should not pay Marner 12-13 million. There is the core change. A message that if you believe you can lose every first round and think you are right there is wrong. Dead wrong.

Agree 100%.

I think all those users are reasonable except notsince67 that's gotta be Paul Marner's account

I can't agree with you there.

Don't forget @Dekes For Days ... though he did tone it down the last couple years. Jokes aside, I'm curious @Dekes For Days how did you think Marners playoffs were?

I didn't forget (see the part of my post that was in brackets).

Well he did get married last off season.

 

[MSZ]

Well he did get married last off season.

To be fair, his wife is quite a looker.

 

[Kurtz]

Had the game on his stick and didn't want to eat a hit. I used to defend Mitch but that's done. Kid is a p***y. This is a man's sport and he refuses to grow up.

His lack of physicality in the playoffs is quite upsetting when everyone else picks up their physical game, but on that particular play he had a split-second decision and made the wrong one. To suggest that he had the time to calculate that he'd get hit if he went short-side and that's why he chose to forgo the goal is just piling on.

 

[egd27]

To be fair, his wife is quite a looker.

yep, but I get the impression she makes most of the decisions for the two of them

 

[fahad203]

Really liked this guy when we drafted him and for the first 5 years
But his softness is just irritating

He wanted money he got it
He wanted terms he got it

Performance we didn't get