Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[Gary Nylund]

Hopefully, this turns out as good as the Matthews thread...

Cling to faint hope, Leaf fans do it better than anyone.

 

[notbias]

Cling to faint hope, Leaf fans do it better than anyone.

We also overreact worse than any other fanbase, turn on anyone and everyone, and have unrealistic expectations.

We do a lot of things well.

 

[Niagara Bill]

If the guy never hits a 100 in his career is he a 100 point winger when he retires?

I’d be last guy to be called Mr Marner. He doesn’t like me.

Whether Mr. Marner loves you or hates you no one really gives a poop.
It is my contention that nobody on this teams likes him and they refuse to physically stand up for him. He is the poison on this team. Actually this is NOT a team, it is a bunch of individuals, Few team players. Maybe only Gio, Reilly, Knies, Benoit, McMann.

Ps, I edited to 100 to 99 so you can sleep at night.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Need a real forward like Ryan Kesler not Mitch Marner

 

[Larcos_Unal]

""

He's either lost the explosiveness or he's simply afraid to gain speed as he's entering the zone...Mitchy is not known for his ability to take a hit to make a play.

Hopefully, this turns out as good as the Matthews thread...

Every thread eventually turns into a 'shit on Mitchy' thread lol

 

[Sypher04]

This should have been done this off season. It’s too late now. His NMC is a huge obstacle.

Whether one subscribes to the idea marner needs to go or not, the one thing that’s been clear all along is the timing of us choosing/being forced to change the GM was as bad as it possibly could have been.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

We also overreact worse than any other fanbase, turn on anyone and everyone, and have unrealistic expectations.

We do a lot of things well.

Winning more than one playoff round in 7 years with the talent on this team is unrealistic now? Good to know.

Chronic underachievement is doing a lot of things well. Also good to know.

 

[mikeyz]

We also overreact worse than any other fanbase, turn on anyone and everyone, and have unrealistic expectations.

We do a lot of things well.

Being pissed off that this core has won 1 playoff round in 8 years is overreacting?

Winning more than one playoff round in 7 years with the talent on this team is unrealistic now? Good to know.

Chronic underachievement is doing a lot of things well. Also good to know.

It’s 8 years. Lol.

 

[Canadian Finn]

i've been told by a solid source (lol) that winning 1 playoff round in 8 years is worth a promotion.

 

[Gallagbi]

Whether one subscribes to the idea marner needs to go or not, the one thing that’s been clear all along is the timing of us choosing/being forced to change the GM was as bad as it possibly could have been

Nah, most of the action happens at the draft and UFA, our guy was recently employed and had opportunities to make a decision

 

[al secord]

Need a real forward like Ryan Kesler not Mitch Marner

I think he's retired.

 

[Sypher04]

Nah, most of the action happens at the draft and UFA, our guy was recently employed and had opportunities to make a decision

Hired May 31, Tre was put in a nearly impossible position with the draft, so many pending UFAs and RFAs, huge extensions looming for Matthews/Nylander, and major trade clauses set to take effect. I don’t know how many GMs would have felt prepared to make a franchise altering move like trading a Marner inside 4 offseason weeks of taking the job. I’m sure there are some, but that would take major stones. Not sure how you get there without learning about the player from inside the organization first.

 

[Gallagbi]

Hired May 31, Tre was put in a nearly impossible position with the draft, so many pending UFAs and RFAs, huge extensions looming for Matthews/Nylander, and major trade clauses set to take effect. I don’t know how many GMs would have felt prepared to make a franchise altering move like trading a Marner inside 4 offseason weeks of taking the job. I’m sure there are some, but that would take major stones. Not sure how you get there without learning about the player from inside the organization first.

Generally a GM comes in with plan and knowledge of the situation. We, as fans, had thoughts on this team and direction. Assuming Tre didn't have those simply because he wasn't employed by the Leafs shows an incredible lack of faith in his abilities or really an professional at this level.

He held the line and most (all?) of his acquisitions have underperformed.

 

[TMLegend]

Part of me wonders if Mitch could already be on the physical decline. He's not a very athletically gifted player all things considered and he'll be 27 in May. He's not big, strong, or particularly fast even at his best. He's fairly good on his edges but nothing spectacular. Almost all his value comes from his hockey i.q and vision, and those things can definitely be compromised if his time and space is taken away.

 

[Sypher04]

Generally a GM comes in with plan and knowledge of the situation. We, as fans, had thoughts on this team and direction. Assuming Tre didn't have those simply because he wasn't employed by the Leafs shows an incredible lack of faith in his abilities or really an professional at this level.

He held the line and most (all?) of his acquisitions have underperformed.

I’m not saying he’s fared well, but I think you’re really minimizing the degree of due diligence that needs to be done before choosing to blow up a core. And sure he would have come in with a plan, but you still have to validate the plan is the right direction after you become to privy to all the information. I’m just saying 4 weeks on the job to make such a huge move is not a lot of time, and it’s not.

 

[notbias]

Winning more than one playoff round in 7 years with the talent on this team is unrealistic now? Good to know.

Chronic underachievement is doing a lot of things well. Also good to know.

Of course not... I think holding the core to a higher standard than what we've seen is good, they have underachieved, but I see far too many people thinking we should have a cup or come close.

Winning in the playoffs is hard and unpredictable, I think holding the expectations that we should have a cup or final appearances is a lofty expectation to have and people will likely be disappointed.

 

[Gallagbi]

I’m not saying he’s fared well, but I think you’re really minimizing the degree of due diligence that needs to be done before choosing to blow up a core. And sure he would have come in with a plan, but you still have to validate the plan is the right direction after you become to privy to all the information. I’m just saying 4 weeks on the job to make such a huge move is not a lot of time, and it’s not.

Nah, you come in with a concept and have an understanding of the team before setting foot on the job. Status quo wasn't the expectation and if you can't make time to connect with a few key stars in your first week or two to confirm direction you're in a really bad spot that time isn't fixing.

 

[GoonieFace]

Generally a GM comes in with plan and knowledge of the situation. We, as fans, had thoughts on this team and direction. Assuming Tre didn't have those simply because he wasn't employed by the Leafs shows an incredible lack of faith in his abilities or really an professional at this level.

He held the line and most (all?) of his acquisitions have underperformed.

Seems a little much to expect him to make such a big move in such a short period of time

 

[Sypher04]

Nah, you come in with a concept and have an understanding of the team before setting foot on the job. Status quo wasn't the expectation and if you can't make time to connect with a few key stars in your first week or two to confirm direction you're in a really bad spot that time isn't fixing.

Fundamentally disagree. In nearly every way.

1) you come in with an outsiders view of the team, organization and players. There’s nothing to suggest your views are necessarily all valid which is why due diligence is required when talking about such a huge move.
2) I think status quo was exactly the expectation. At least from Shanny.
3) Minimizing the task to “connecting with a few key players in your first week or two to confirm direction” kinda proves my previous post accurate.

 

[Gallagbi]

Fundamentally disagree. In nearly every way.

1) you come in with an outsiders view of the team, organization and players. There’s nothing to suggest your views are necessarily all valid which is why due diligence is required.
2) I think status quo was exactly the expectation. At least from Shanny.
3) Minimizing the task to “connecting with a few key players in your first week or two to confirm direction” kinda proves my previous post accurate.

What do you think he would have learned with another month?

 

[Smif]

It's funny that on Friday he had one of his best games. Saturday we lost and here is this mess.

 

[notdoneyet]

Being pissed off that this core has won 1 playoff round in 8 years is overreacting?


It’s 8 years. Lol.

Making one guy the scapegoat is stupidity in action. There isn’t one if the core four that has not been at fault for where we are.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We also overreact worse than any other fanbase, turn on anyone and everyone, and have unrealistic expectations.

We do a lot of things well.

Oh I dunno, I think fanbases are much the same in every city.

What are these things you think we "do well"?

Of course not... I think holding the core to a higher standard than what we've seen is good, they have underachieved, but I see far too many people thinking we should have a cup or come close.

Winning in the playoffs is hard and unpredictable, I think holding the expectations that we should have a cup or final appearances is a lofty expectation to have and people will likely be disappointed.

When we made the playoffs for the first time with this core and fought hard in losing to WSH in the first round, the future looked in incredibly bright, and looking at the rest of the league, I didn't see a team who's future looked brighter. I thought we'd be making the playoffs easily for years to come for sure (which we've done), I sure as hell didn't expect that we'd keep losing in the 1st round. I thought it was highly likely we'd win more often than we'd lose, we'd make it to the finals before long and why not win it all? Considering how stacked we were at the time with young, elite talent, I don't think I was expecting too much, I'd even say that only someone with a loser mentality would expect less.

Instead, we mastered the art of losing every f***ing time when the series comes down to one game, often in pathetic fashion. Shrugging this off with "playoffs are unpredictable" is making weak excuses, nothing more. It seems most of your posts consist of you trying to make the team look good with cherry picked stats and making weak excuses for losing in the playoffs. Wake up and face the reality - this team is one of the greatest underachievers in the history of North American pro sports.

Making one guy the scapegoat is stupidity in action. There isn’t one if the core four that has not been at fault for where we are.

Who's doing that?

 

[Martin Skoula]

I’m not saying he’s fared well, but I think you’re really minimizing the degree of due diligence that needs to be done before choosing to blow up a core. And sure he would have come in with a plan, but you still have to validate the plan is the right direction after you become to privy to all the information. I’m just saying 4 weeks on the job to make such a huge move is not a lot of time, and it’s not.

His boss told the core they’re not being moved before Tre was even announced as GM. The problem isn’t he didn’t have enough time, the problem is he isn’t allowed to move them even if he wanted to. He’s here to maintain status quo for a few years as a favor to his dad, no one involved in hiring him actually expects him to win or do anything of significance with the roster.

We needed a babysitter for the roster, Tre needed to not wind up on a no-name bubble team where he’s one bad season away from being fired and only considered for AGM roles like Chiarelli.

 

[Stephen]

I’m not saying he’s fared well, but I think you’re really minimizing the degree of due diligence that needs to be done before choosing to blow up a core. And sure he would have come in with a plan, but you still have to validate the plan is the right direction after you become to privy to all the information. I’m just saying 4 weeks on the job to make such a huge move is not a lot of time, and it’s not.

I'd say Treliving tiptoed around the edges and tried to play with a bit of the sliders. I think that's probably the most reasonable approach. If anyone cares to remember the number one prioriy was to sign Matthews, and projecting a business as usual vibe was their preferred method.

Remember when Fletcher and Burke kind of collaborated on the Steen and Colaiacovo for Stempniak trade in 2008 when there was simply no need to do anything in a hurry.