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Player Discussion Mitch Marner

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socko said:
I'm not sure I see that. Marner is the same player he was 6 years ago. Completely stagnant. Nylander has been improving every year. I'm not paying a guy more because he was the better player 6 years ago. One of these guys is a 40 goal scorer without playing on the top line. Not to mention Matthews looks pretty good playing with Domi.
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Can you imagine what MM would be asking for had their careers been reversed? MM's agent would be saying that the best is yet to come...the sky's the limit since he improved every year etc...yada yada.

He is the same guy he was when he signed and it wasn't a deal for us in the sense that we never got some years at the end of the deal where he had surplus value. The Willy contract at least gave us a few years of play well above the $7M he signed for.
 
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666 said:
This is the biggest problem with people who don't understand Marner. It's hard to see how great he is when you don't even know when he's on the ice.
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Oddly enough, he didn't say Marner was on the ice, or blame him for the goal.

Sounds more like a bit of kidding the posters who kept saying the PK would be great as soon as Mitch got back.
 
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This is the inefficient overcomplicating stuff that Marner does each game. 8:50 of the attached youtube video. It's a PP, the Leafs get a controlled zone entry, and the Wings collapse in the slot, leaving tons of room at the point to move the puck. Except Marner doesnt move it, he decides to hold it and go for a figure skate, and proceeds to skate the puck to the point, over stickhandle, runs out of room (though he still could make an easy pass to Matthews), but instead he sends a low percentage weak shot/pass to the net, that ends up off target for Tavares to do anything with, and Detroit gets the easy stoppage of play. Leafs had all the time in the world to pass the puck around and find a quality shot but Marner forces a play.

 
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In case anyone missed the game. 3:55 of the attached video, yet another Marner dipsy doodle special on the Powerplay. Marner tries to pull a move, Jersey player picks his pocket and Jersey heads the other way 2 vs 1. Samsonov needs to make one his best saves of the year to keep from allowing the shorthanded goal. Unfortunately the highlights only get from Jersey stealing it...but it was Marner who gave it away. This one reminded me of the Montreal back breaker giveaway from a few postseasons ago by Marner.

 
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Antropovsky said:
This is the inefficient overcomplicating stuff that Marner does each game. 8:50 of the attached youtube video. It's a PP, the Leafs get a controlled zone entry, and the Wings collapse in the slot, leaving tons of room at the point to move the puck. Except Marner doesnt move it, he decides to hold it and go for a figure skate, and proceeds to skate the puck to the point, over stickhandle, runs out of room (though he still could make an easy pass to Matthews), but instead he sends a low percentage weak shot/pass to the net, that ends up off target for Tavares to do anything with, and Detroit gets the easy stoppage of play. Leafs had all the time in the world to pass the puck around and find a quality shot but Marner forces a play.

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When that play connects it's brilliant but when it doesn't it's a poor use of 4 guys who are stuck puck watching and guessing what happens next. Leafs big guns have all been guilty of overhandling the puck to try and force a play in their own way. Mathews and Marner both over complicate things when they've been in the comfort zone too long together, Willie circles the zone like he's looking for a parking spot at Costco, and JT will tunnel vision load up on a bad wrister.
 
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ponder said:
Love Willy, but Marner is a MUCH better player. The offensive gap is not huge, but Marner still drives the play noticeably more than Willy. However, it’s defence and consistent effort level where Marner blows Willy away.

Matthews is our best player, then there’s a considerable gap to Marner, then another considerable gap to Willy.
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Marner and Nylander dominate the game in very different ways and thrive and struggle in different kind of conditions.
 
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Antropovsky said:
This is the inefficient overcomplicating stuff that Marner does each game. 8:50 of the attached youtube video. It's a PP, the Leafs get a controlled zone entry, and the Wings collapse in the slot, leaving tons of room at the point to move the puck. Except Marner doesnt move it, he decides to hold it and go for a figure skate, and proceeds to skate the puck to the point, over stickhandle, runs out of room (though he still could make an easy pass to Matthews), but instead he sends a low percentage weak shot/pass to the net, that ends up off target for Tavares to do anything with, and Detroit gets the easy stoppage of play. Leafs had all the time in the world to pass the puck around and find a quality shot but Marner forces a play.

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are you really serious?

Its really funny trying to take the best play happenned in that pp and try to explain how bad it was.

Matthews it would be an no angle shot and the chance the puck goes in would be extremely low even from matthews. Nylander it would be a long distance shot with no traffic, when he was in great position for a shot, passing lane was not there anymore ...The chance puck goes in would be pretty low too. the play who giving up the highest scoring probability was exactly the play he did with jt deflect and in perfect position for rebound. So doing the same exact play doing over and over again on pp, last 20 and didn't worked will make leafs pp so most dangerous. sure taking blue line shot with no traffic or from a pretty bad angle shot, its how leafs will score pp goal in playoff!!!
 
should put marner in the middle on the second line and put the tavares on the third line with mcmann and jarnkrok
 
thusk said:
are you really serious?

Its really funny trying to take the best play happenned in that pp and try to explain how bad it was.

Matthews it would be an no angle shot and the chance the puck goes in would be extremely low even from matthews. Nylander it would be a long distance shot with no traffic, when he was in great position for a shot, passing lane was not there anymore ...The chance puck goes in would be pretty low too. the play who giving up the highest scoring probability was exactly the play he did with jt deflect and in perfect position for rebound. So doing the same exact play doing over and over again on pp, last 20 and didn't worked will make leafs pp so most dangerous. sure taking blue line shot with no traffic or from a pretty bad angle shot, its how leafs will score pp goal in playoff!!!
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.. the best play was to stop and move the puck to his teammates. It wasn't necessary for Marner to skate the puck to the point and then force a wrist shot. This isn't the NBA, there isn't a shot clock. A shot didn't have to come from the very next play that was made.
 
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Stephen said:
When that play connects it's brilliant but when it doesn't it's a poor use of 4 guys who are stuck puck watching and guessing what happens next. Leafs big guns have all been guilty of overhandling the puck to try and force a play in their own way. Mathews and Marner both over complicate things when they've been in the comfort zone too long together, Willie circles the zone like he's looking for a parking spot at Costco, and JT will tunnel vision load up on a bad wrister.
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So often Marner has many easy options and he elects to over do it. When he finally shot the puck on the play, the red wing defender had caught up to him and was defending the shot quite well. Also...because Marner skated to the faceoff dot and then decided to dipsy doodle back towards the blueline, he needed to skate with his back to the net, and then, needed to flip to square up to the net... which resulted in a weak shot. He sends it to Tavares (or in Tavares direction) it's off target I'm guessing, probably because Marner needed to get it around the defender and even though Tavares awkwardly reaches and gets a piece of it...the shot has so little velocity that the goalie stops it pretty easily, with no rebound.

I think it was last year that Matthews was doing something similar on the pp where he'd skate away from the net and then pivot and square up and shoot while his momentum was going backwards.

I don't think I've seen Matthews do it at all this season though.
 
Antropovsky said:
This is the inefficient overcomplicating stuff that Marner does each game. 8:50 of the attached youtube video. It's a PP, the Leafs get a controlled zone entry, and the Wings collapse in the slot, leaving tons of room at the point to move the puck. Except Marner doesnt move it, he decides to hold it and go for a figure skate, and proceeds to skate the puck to the point, over stickhandle, runs out of room (though he still could make an easy pass to Matthews), but instead he sends a low percentage weak shot/pass to the net, that ends up off target for Tavares to do anything with, and Detroit gets the easy stoppage of play. Leafs had all the time in the world to pass the puck around and find a quality shot but Marner forces a play.

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More accurately, Marner gets the puck, opens up space, outwaits the block, and then with no better options, makes a good pass to an open Tavares in front of the net, who not only gets a tip on net right in between the pad and the glove that almost goes in, but gets a rebound as well. Probably the best chance of the PP.
 
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Antropovsky said:
.. the best play was to stop and move the puck to his teammates. It wasn't necessary for Marner to skate the puck to the point and then force a wrist shot. This isn't the NBA, there isn't a shot clock. A shot didn't have to come from the very next play that was made.
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he took the space detroit gave him, created space for his teammate in the slot to get a great scoring chance. Its the fact marner was skating with the puck who created kind of chaos in detroit boxes and created a scoring chance.

If he would do exactly what you said, he would bring back the puck to rielly and the play would probably blow dead right here. Rielly you will wait detroit pressure him to take a long shot or move it back to nylander or matthews again and over again. The same play leafs are doing over and over again and would probablt result in no scoring chance and a puck lost at the end... thats the #1 reason why leafs pp had been so bad in last 2 month .

if you want to create thing in pp, you need to force the defensive boxes to move with kind of play defensive team doesn't expect to create confusion and open up passing lane and thats exactly what Marner did. If you only doing whats defensive expecting and hoping for perfect shot from matthews or nylander, you becoming pretty easy to stop. Its not how you will score in playoff, hockey 101.
 
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Punch Drunk Loov said:
All very true.

It's a hard pill to swallow looking at the top paid players in the league.
McDavid - 12.5M
Mackinnon - 12.6M

I'm having such a tough time reconciling paying Mitch an equal or greater value. Our past mistakes shouldn't compound into future ones.

It's like the Leafs own cap eco-system is the new comparable rather than the reality of the 31 other teams.

I'll try not to get into it but looking at Hanifin's deal I'm feeling continued despair at our lack on investment and talent on D.
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Matthews cap hit %, is still lower than McDavids when they both signed. You have to factor that in, instead of total dollars.

As the cap rises, of course guys are going to leapfrog over each other.

Willy's contract might be worse for the first 5 years than it is the last 3.

If the cap rises and Willy can get into his 30's like players do know and still be near PPG, 11.5 should be the asking price for that production.

Next year, he is just below Pasta's cap hit when signed, so he will have to match or out perform this year to be considered full value
 
Lets hope Mitch gets fully healed from his high ankle sprain injury .. we need his complete domination of his edgework game in playoffs .. you can see watching recent games at Scotia his power and mobility is not quite where it needs to be .. maybe just getting more games in to strengthen the muscles around joint .. we will need 3 producing lines to take down both Florida and Boston .. Matty's line won't be enough
 
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Darcy Tucker said:
84 points in 67 games is such a nice season from Marner. Another abbreviated season where he deserved 100 points and played great defensively. Strange how I read that some of you want his cap space reallocated instead of Tavares. Glad I didn't drink the haterade.
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The fact that he came out of the gate slowly makes it more impressive. I would still be in favour of a change to the core if we do not see better playoff results than last year but we know the Leafs won't.
 
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Is it against the law for us to ice a line of Marner - Matthews - Nylander? It'd be fun to see if we were trailing in the 3rd.
 
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